General Election (5 Viewers)

[Liquid Gold]

All political parties have their own problems.

With the Conservatives you enjoy the liberty part of Democracy but they're are not that concerned with the equality part, especially when it comes to do with wealth.

Labour is wholy inadequate when it comes to liberty. DNA database and many other Human Rights disasters they had when in power. It is now against the law to do some of the stuff they did when in power.

And the Lib Dems being anything but liberal and democratic.

All three had the chance of changing the country for the better when in power but were more interested in their own self interest of staying in power rather then changing the country for the better.

We do deserve better then the crap that is served up at the moment.

Agree with most of this, the record on all sides is appalling. I do feel like the Tories are slipping on their liberty hougj and not as strong as you suggest. May's 'snoopers charter' is very much anti liberty

 

---

[Philosoraptor]

With any luck it will be a hung parliament. No clear control for any one party and politicians needing to do what's right for the country instead of the party machines.

 

[rob9872]

With any luck it will be a hung parliament. No clear control for any one party and politicians needing to do what's right for the country instead of the party machines.

Imo the one solid idea that the LD had was a couple of elections back when they built their manifesto strongly geared around proportional representation.

I can see why they would like it as they often come second and likely lose votes to the main two parties over being scared that the other party will win, but how can moving imaginary boundaries to suit your parties best chance be fair? First past the post is unfair and outdated. If 20% of the people believe in something but that only equates to 3% of seats it can't be right. Until that happens there will always be an unpopular government often voted by approx.one third of the electorate. Every vote should count equally, albeit that if would have meant 40-50 UKIP seats at the last election.

 

[chiefdave]

Apparently now if you care about having some kind of society and infrastructure in the future for your children or indeed for yourself in old age - you somehow become a leftie socialist terrorist.

Completely agree with this. Policies like state ownership of the railways are now viewed as an extremist viewpoint rather than an expected left wing policy. Everything has lurched so far to the right which is a big contributor to many people disengaging. There's very little difference in the options you have to vote for. You could move many Blairites over to the Conservatives with ease.

All three had the chance of changing the country for the better when in power but were more interested in their own self interest of staying in power rather then changing the country for the better.

This is the problem really. The system needs an overhaul. FPTP needs to be replaced with something more representative of what people are actually voting for and where no votes are wasted. Hung parliaments aren't a bad thing. As in most things if all sides had to work together and compromise you'd likely see improvements rather than swinging from one extreme to the other.

 

[chiefdave]

If 20% of the people believe in something but that only equates to 3% of seats it can't be right.

You only have to look at the last election to see how the system doesn't work. Compare percentage of the vote to percentage of MPs.

Conservatives 36.8% of the vote 50.8% of MPs
Labour 30.5% of the vote 35.7% of MPs
SNP 4.7% of the vote 8.6% of MPs
Lib Dems 7.9% of the vote 1.2% of MPs
UKIP 12.7% of the vote 0.2% of MPs
Greens 3.8% of the vote 0.2% of MPs

The fact that the 6% difference in vote between Conservative and Labour equates to a difference of 98 MPs is bad enough but when you look at the smaller parties it really hits home.

UKIP with 1 MP for 12.7% of the vote but the SNP have 56 MPs with 4.7% of the vote.

 

[ccfctommy]

The day after he beat Owen Smith I cancelled my membership after 30 years. A Labour party needs to be in power to change lives and to stop the Tories. Unfortunately, people like Corbyn, Diane Abbott and John McDonnell are incapable and bordering on madness. No one would vote for them in the numbers needed. For the first time in my life I won't be voting Labour this time.

I would never vote Tory that leaves me with the Greens or the LDs.

No one would have voted for Owen Smith either.

 

[Captain Dart]

No one would have voted for Owen Smith either.

Complete dipstick, a different kind of joke.

 

[Liquid Gold]

Imo the one solid idea that the LD had was a couple of elections back when they built their manifesto strongly geared around proportional representation.

I can see why they would like it as they often come second and likely lose votes to the main two parties over being scared that the other party will win, but how can moving imaginary boundaries to suit your parties best chance be fair? First past the post is unfair and outdated. If 20% of the people believe in something but that only equates to 3% of seats it can't be right. Until that happens there will always be an unpopular government often voted by approx.one third of the electorate. Every vote should count equally, albeit that if would have meant 40-50 UKIP seats at the last election.

I think the UKIP vote is so high because of the ridiculous first past the post system. If people knew their vote mattered then they'd much more likely vote for a party that reflects their views and not protest vote. Even if many still voted UKIP they'd soon stop once they saw the idiocy of them in government.

It's a shame Clegg allowed Cameron to water down his plans for PR so much that in a referendum the country chose FPTP as it was a simpler option. Clegg has so much to answer for.

 

[torchomatic]

No one would have voted for Owen Smith either.

I agree. It is curtains for the LP either way.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I agree. It is curtains for the LP either way.

What would make you vote for them, out of interest? Seems to me that Tory-lite Labour is unpopular, but a man with progressive policies which have popular support is called a commie terrorist lover.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

You only have to look at the last election to see how the system doesn't work. Compare percentage of the vote to percentage of MPs.

Conservatives 36.8% of the vote 50.8% of MPs
Labour 30.5% of the vote 35.7% of MPs
SNP 4.7% of the vote 8.6% of MPs
Lib Dems 7.9% of the vote 1.2% of MPs
UKIP 12.7% of the vote 0.2% of MPs
Greens 3.8% of the vote 0.2% of MPs

The fact that the 6% difference in vote between Conservative and Labour equates to a difference of 98 MPs is bad enough but when you look at the smaller parties it really hits home.

UKIP with 1 MP for 12.7% of the vote but the SNP have 56 MPs with 4.7% of the vote.

Will be much worse in future elections after the Tories further manipulate the constituency boundaries.

 

[torchomatic]

What would make you vote for them, out of interest? Seems to me that Tory-lite Labour is unpopular, but a man with progressive policies which have popular support is called a commie terrorist lover.

Which, to be fair, is true. Corbyn has made quite a few errors of judgement in the past with the IRA and Hamas.

At the end of the day to change people's lives for the better and to stop the right-wing devastation of our country by the Tories we ned to be in power. Corbyn will never be a prime minister in a million years. He will comdemn us to opposition for the next decade.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Which, to be fair, is true. Corbyn has made quite a few errors of judgement in the past with the IRA and Hamas.

At the end of the day to change people's lives for the better and to stop the right-wing devastation of our country by the Tories we ned to be in power. Corbyn will never be a prime minister in a million years. He will comdemn us to opposition for the next decade.

Mrs May supports Saudi war crimes in Yemen and facilitates them by selling them arms, far worse than anything Corbyn has or has not done. We are at a stage where a social democrat like Corbyn, whose policy positions *do* have popular support when Corbyn's name is left out, is called a commie member of the 'hard left'.

 

[Monners]

Yeah. Seems ok to sell arms to Saudi and Israel to maintain the balance of power. Now, where do Isis and Al queda gain their support from?

 

[Ian1779]

Which, to be fair, is true. Corbyn has made quite a few errors of judgement in the past with the IRA and Hamas.

At the end of the day to change people's lives for the better and to stop the right-wing devastation of our country by the Tories we ned to be in power. Corbyn will never be a prime minister in a million years. He will comdemn us to opposition for the next decade.

Why is it you dislike Corbyn so? Is it your belief he is unelectable? Or is it the previous stuff you referred to (Hamas/IRA) or a combination of both?

Honestly curious - someone I worked with said they hated him but couldn't give a single reason as to why...

 

[Ian1779]

Yeah. Seems ok to sell arms to Saudi and Israel to maintain the balance of power. Now, where do Isis and Al queda gain their support from?

The Tories will always value profit more than human life.

 

[skybluetony176]

This will be the end of Corbyn. Can see the SNP taking a hit too. The Scottish Tory leader seems to be spearheading interest in the Scottish Tory party and the Lib Dems are firmly in the remain camp so might have a chance of winning some votes back whereas the SNP seem to be relishing the outvote as a great outcome so they can promote a second Scottish independence referendum which I think has pissed a good number of Scotts of as the assumption by the SNP seems to be that the country wants out of the UK but remain in the EU and that isn't necessarily the case, there are multiple variations on that.

 

[torchomatic]

Mrs May supports Saudi war crimes in Yemen and facilitates them by selling them arms, far worse than anything Corbyn has or has not done. We are at a stage where a social democrat like Corbyn, whose policy positions *do* have popular support when Corbyn's name is left out, is called a commie member of the 'hard left'.

I agree and you said it yourself, "when Corbyn's name is left out". Unfortunately, he is leader and delusional enough to think he can win. To be fair other delusionalists such as McDonnell, Abbott, Thornberry and Burgon are telling him he can win too, so it's not too surprising.

The minute he is gone I will rejoin the party. As I said I left after 30 years when he was elected.

 

[Philosoraptor]

Now that a new politics thread has opened, could I ask does anyone know about any new developments into the saga of former Labour deputy leader of Coventry City Council Phil Townshend, and the fraud accusation made?

 

[torchomatic]

Why is it you dislike Corbyn so? Is it your belief he is unelectable? Or is it the previous stuff you referred to (Hamas/IRA) or a combination of both?

Honestly curious - someone I worked with said they hated him but couldn't give a single reason as to why...

I wouldn't say I hated him, that's a bit strong.

There are a few reasons I think he is the wrong leader. The insistence of bigging up his "mandate' of new members when it is the electorate he needs to connect with. Insisting on loyalty having spent his entire career being disloyal and voting with the Tories 450 times.

Momentum. Hypocrisy when appointing Chakrabarti.

Threats from his sycophants and Momemtum to deselect anyone they don't like.

Mainly though his unelectability and the reason we will be in opposition to the Tories for the foreseeable future. As I said he needs to be in power to make a difference and he will never be in power as he isn't trusted. He needs 11M people to vote for him


Ain't gonna happen.

 

[Ian1779]

I wouldn't say I hated him, that's a bit strong.

There are a few reasons I think he is the wrong leader. The insistence of bigging up his "mandate' of new members when it is the electorate he needs to connect with. Insisting on loyalty having spent his entire career being disloyal and voting with the Tories 450 times.

Momentum. Hypocrisy when appointing Chakrabarti.

Threats from his sycophants and Momemtum to deselect anyone they don't like.

Mainly though his unelectability and the reason we will be in opposition to the Tories for the foreseeable future. As I said he needs to be in power to make a difference and he will never be in power as he isn't trusted. He needs 11M people to vote for him


Ain't gonna happen.

Out of the current Labour MP's who would you choose as leader?

 

[torchomatic]

Out of the current Labour MP's who would you choose as leader?

Starmer or Lewis.

 

[Ian1779]

Starmer or Lewis.

I'd go for Lewis personally. I look at other people like Rayner (as she has done a lot in terms of education which is my area of interest) but she needs more time.

 

[torchomatic]

I'd go for Lewis personally. I look at other people like Rayner (as she has done a lot in terms of education which is my area of interest) but she needs more time.

Yes I think Lewis would be very good. He's not just spent his whole life in parliament, which is really important nowadays.

Nothing worse than a career politician.

 

[chiefdave]

whose policy positions *do* have popular support when Corbyn's name is left out,

This is an interesting point.

During the campaigning for the last general election there was a big study conducted, think it was by Manchester University. Basically they polled people on various key policies and then asked them if an election was held today who would you vote for.

The percentage of people who were voting for a party that weren't aligned to their beliefs was huge. On policy alone Labour would have won the election with the Greens second. The rest were a long way behind. But when it came to who people were voting for it was Conservative and Labour out in front with the Greens barely registering.

 

[Ian1779]

As I said he needs to be in power to make a difference and he will never be in power as he isn't trusted. He needs 11M people to vote for him

Ain't gonna happen.

If Labour have any kind of strategy then they have to target the young that haven't voted before. Let them know that THEIR vote could shape their future and give them a country they can have a decent life in. Ultimately it will be this generation that will suffer the most from the Tory pillage.

 

[Grendel]

Why is it you dislike Corbyn so? Is it your belief he is unelectable? Or is it the previous stuff you referred to (Hamas/IRA) or a combination of both?

Honestly curious - someone I worked with said they hated him but couldn't give a single reason as to why...

His known links with terrorist organisations.

His blatent role in a hard left magazine glorifying the Brighton bombing

His association with the loathsome thug McDonnell

His affront at representing a party he has opposed nearly 500 times in parliament.

His anti semetic stance and refusal to address the issue in his party

You talk about valuing human life. Mr Corbyn shows little value for life of it doesn't support his doctrine. He was more than happy to rub shoulders with people who dragged mothers from screaming children to be shot dead on an Irish beach.

Mostly though I despise Corbyn for turning a great political institution which had political heavyweights such as McDonald, Bevan, Wilson, Healey and Callaghan into a circus freak show with his former lover, the IRA sympathiser and that absurd Emily Thornberry as his gruesome sidekicks.

I feel sorry for Chakribati actually. She is a genuine and decent person who is going to be made mincemeat of in the next few weeks. I urge her to get out.

We know what Corbyn is and what he stands for. Judgement day soon for Jeremy but I'm sure Mr Mcdonnel will sieze the moment and the freak show will continue.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

His known links with terrorist organisations.

His blatent role in a hard left magazine glorifying the Brighton bombing

His association with the loathsome thug McDonnell

His affront at representing a party he has opposed nearly 500 times in parliament.

His anti semetic stance and refusal to address the issue in his party

You talk about valuing human life. Mr Corbyn shows little value for life of it doesn't support his doctrine. He was more than happy to rub shoulders with people who dragged mothers from screaming children to be shot dead on an Irish beach.

Mostly though I despise Corbyn for turning a great political institution which had political heavyweights such as McDonald, Bevan, Wilson, Healey and Callaghan into a circus freak show with his former lover, the IRA sympathiser and that absurd Emily Thornberry as his gruesome sidekicks.

I feel sorry for Chakribati actually. She is a genuine and decent person who is going to be made mincemeat of in the next few weeks. I urge her to get out.

We know what Corbyn is and what he stands for. Judgement day soon for Jeremy but I'm sure Mr Mcdonnel will sieze the moment and the freak show will continue.

Reasonable summary

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I agree and you said it yourself, "when Corbyn's name is left out". Unfortunately, he is leader and delusional enough to think he can win. To be fair other delusionalists such as McDonnell, Abbott, Thornberry and Burgon are telling him he can win too, so it's not too surprising.

The minute he is gone I will rejoin the party. As I said I left after 30 years when he was elected.

I'm not besotted with the guy but I can see that the policies are a damn sight better than whatever Mrs May has to offer. The media has done a superb hit job, I will give them that.

 

[torchomatic]

I'm not besotted with the guy but I can see that the policies are a damn sight better than whatever Mrs May has to offer. The media has done a superb hit job, I will give them that.

Again I agree his policies are good. It is just him that puts the electorate off.

 

[Grendel]

I'm not besotted with the guy but I can see that the policies are a damn sight better than whatever Mrs May has to offer. The media has done a superb hit job, I will give them that.

Oh please. Do some research on Mr Corbyn and what he stands for. Its all in the public record. If you genuinely want a racist as PM, a terrorist as Chancellor and Dianne Abbott in anything but old Jeremy's camper van then you are welcome to it.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Oh please. Do some research on Mr Corbyn and what he stands for. Its all in the public record. If you genuinely want a racist as PM, a terrorist as Chancellor and Dianne Abbott in anything but old Jeremy's camper van then you are welcome to it.

I have done, I don't see a racist in there, or how McDonnell is a terrorist. I prefer that to having Mrs May, an articulate liar who expresses nought but vague platitudes and support for the Saudi regime. Why is it OK for her to defend their war crimes in Yemen and hand arms over to them? Why is it OK for her to talk about a 'more equal society' whereas Mr Corbyn is called a commie for saying the same?

I'm no Corbynista here but it seems that Theresa May can get away with virtually anything.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Again I agree his policies are good. It is just him that puts the electorate off.

The electorate is voting against its own self interest.

 

[Grendel]

I have done, I don't see a racist in there, or how McDonnell is a terrorist. I prefer that to having Mrs May, an articulate liar who expresses nought but vague platitudes and support for the Saudi regime. Why is it OK for her to defend their war crimes in Yemen and hand arms over to them? Why is it OK for her to talk about a 'more equal society' whereas Mr Corbyn is called a commie for saying the same?

I'm no Corbynista here but it seems that Theresa May can get away with virtually anything.

If you've done some research what do you think of Mr Corbyn and his editorial role in the magazine that said "what's do you call 4 dead tories - a start?"

What do you think about Mr McDonnell and his comments on Bobby sands?

Are you really comfortable with the decision regarding Ken Livingston and his one year suspension? Don't you think the internal investigation was a whitewash? Seriously?

Are you not somewhat puzzled as to why Mr Corbyn voted for the Conservative Party against his own party nearly 500 times?

Are you comfortable with the fact Mr Corbyn has voted to leave the EU whenever he's had the opportunity yet now (snigger) is pro Europe.

 

[Liquid Gold]

If you've done some research what do you think of Mr Corbyn and his editorial role in the magazine that said "what's do you call 4 dead tories - a start?"

What do you think about Mr McDonnell and his comments on Bobby sands?

Are you really comfortable with the decision regarding Ken Livingston and his one year suspension? Don't you think the internal investigation was a whitewash? Seriously?

Are you not somewhat puzzled as to why Mr Corbyn voted for the Conservative Party against his own party nearly 500 times?

Are you comfortable with the fact Mr Corbyn has voted to leave the EU whenever he's had the opportunity yet now (snigger) is pro Europe.

It's not about Corbyn for you though is it. You were very against the Labour party 2 years ago when he was nowhere near.

From what I can tell you voted for Cameron and Osborn who had a hand in a magazine that said Mandela should be hanged so for you to have a go for at Corbyn for something similar is extremely hypocritical.