Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
To be fair it is a much smaller lie than SISU's claim they've invested £70M (or £100M as in Reid's latest nonsensical piece which I quote from below)
So you want to buy CCFC...... (7 Viewers)
- Thread starter oldskyblue58
- Start date
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
Just to be clear the OP gives the main frameworks. Within that there are options for negotiation, eg loan write downs, pay offs in the pound, what happens to Ryton, performance payments, what assets or liabilities actually taken on etc
My feeling is that any deal would be done in tried and tested (failed ?) ways. Which is a worry because ultimately it leads us back to the same place. More creative thinking is required perhaps. I would hope that fans are given an opportunity to buy into any deal done by whoever does it even if it is a small percentage - but that percentage has to be voting shares not lip service class B non voting shares
My feeling is that any deal would be done in tried and tested (failed ?) ways. Which is a worry because ultimately it leads us back to the same place. More creative thinking is required perhaps. I would hope that fans are given an opportunity to buy into any deal done by whoever does it even if it is a small percentage - but that percentage has to be voting shares not lip service class B non voting shares
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
But that's the bit that really annoys me however big or small the lie or misdirection. It is either deliberate or lazy, the facts are out there and have been for some time. The effect of such misdirection is to create confusion, bitterness, conflict and division....... which allows the likes of TF & SISU the ability to carry on unchallenged
The Penguin
Well-Known Member
The "SISU have invested ELEVENTY BAJILLION DOLLARYDOOS" argument has long fascinated me. Do they not realise that they are essentially saying that their acumen is so great, they have pumped all this money into a football team....and the result is that they are two divisions lower than they were when they started?
Not to mention on the verge of homelessness.
Not to mention on the verge of homelessness.
Warwickhunt
Well-Known Member
Maltese people are so shy Nick :happy:
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
So the notion that seems to be doing the rounds that they bought the club for a pound and promptly paid off £8M of debt in hard cash is a nonsense and if I understood your post correctly (which in fairness I probably haven't) all the initial purchase cost them in real terms was £561K plus add ons?
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Even though it ultimately meant no influence whatsoever, the 'old' system under Richardson, McGinnity, Robinson was alright - it allowed people to turn up to the AGMs, voice their praise (or, more usually, displeasure!) and at least allowed some awareness of what was going on.
Think in the modern world we have to accept it needs moneyed owners, ideally, but just *some* ability to be involved/ be aware of what's going on can only be a good thing.
Nick
Administrator
A bit before my time, but did it allow anybody with a share?
The Penguin
Well-Known Member
From memory, yes, it did.
I only say that because as a former shareholder, I seem to remember trying to line my uncle up to go to a meeting on my behalf.
Though I may be misremembering.
Nick
Administrator
That would be much better. Even if it just gave people a feeling of being involved rather than shut out.
They could do different levels of "investment" also for fundraising.
£xxx amount gets you that privilege, £xx gets you a special seat at the ground, etc etc.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Yeah, of course they all passed everything as they controlled the majority, but it at least allowed a modicum of insight!
In an ideal world, you'd limit any buyer to having 20% maximum of shares, so nobody could do anything without consensus. Arsenal used to have a structure close to this, and it kept a semblance of 'club' vs 'business'.
Just to be clear on what Sisu paid for the club, there were 55,788 ordinary shares held in CCFC (Holdings), Sisu made a cash offer of £0.0001 for every share held. Therefore the club was valued at £5.5788. They also offered the soon to be ex shareholders a single, framed, category B non voting share.
Out of interest the largest shareholdings at the time were held by Craigavon Limited with 31,871 (Geoffery Robinson) and Sir Derek Higgs 8,021, Numbers held by other members of the board at the time the offer came in were Michael Mcginity 100, Brenda Price 100, Michael Jepson 100, Joe Elliott 10.
In the letter from the then Chairman the debt carried on the balance sheet was quoted as in excess of 38 Million pounds. They (Sisu) said they would invest up to 22 Million pounds to create a strong football and business franchise.
Out of interest the largest shareholdings at the time were held by Craigavon Limited with 31,871 (Geoffery Robinson) and Sir Derek Higgs 8,021, Numbers held by other members of the board at the time the offer came in were Michael Mcginity 100, Brenda Price 100, Michael Jepson 100, Joe Elliott 10.
In the letter from the then Chairman the debt carried on the balance sheet was quoted as in excess of 38 Million pounds. They (Sisu) said they would invest up to 22 Million pounds to create a strong football and business franchise.
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RegTheDonk
Well-Known Member
Re-raise. Interesting. Fisher has to call surely, just to see his cards.
sky blue john
Well-Known Member
Osb,
Could the club be bought still allowing Sisu to still persue JR2?
My thoughts are that this could scupper a sale due to all the companies under CCFC are listed as plaintiffs.
Could the club be bought still allowing Sisu to still persue JR2?
My thoughts are that this could scupper a sale due to all the companies under CCFC are listed as plaintiffs.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Anyone can bring, or attempt to bring a JR, you don't have to be directly involved. The bigger issue is should the JR rule against CCC there is likely to be another case regarding compensation due, if SISU no longer own the club would they be entitled to the compensation?
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
If they sold the club and the JR proves that the club was devalued by issues around the JR would they then be entitled to more compensation than they would if they still owned the club? I would think they would be entitled as they were the owners at the time, my understanding from the first JR is that it dealt with a specific set of events during a specific time frame. If they were the owners during those specific events and time frame why wouldn't they be entitled to claim compensation? As I said, if it proved that the club was devalued because of it and they've sold it at a loss it might actually enhance their compensation case.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
The Hoffman deal isn't buying Otium though only the assets. So that company still exists and would still be part of the action being taken. If successful in JR2 then they could claim compensation certainly up to the date the assets were sold. Of course that then raises the question would the assets particularly the rights under the golden share have been worth more had the Wasps sale not taken place and therefore SISU forced to sell "the club" for under value etc ................
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Sure they could argue a case for that. If they were to win then it wouldn't be a huge stretch to suggest we wouldn't have been relegated, certainly not twice, and the club wouldn't have been devalued if those actions hadn't taken place.
Would be near impossible to prove 100% one way or the other so I suppose the judge would have decide what was likely.
duffer
Well-Known Member
Ah, technically speaking CD I think you do need to be involved to bring a JR. Below from http://www.publiclawproject.org.uk/data/resources/6/PLP_Short_Guide_3_1305.pdf
Who can bring a judicial review?
You have to have an interest in the decision you are
challenging to bring a judicial review, or what is called
“standing”. That means you have to have sufficient
connection to the subject matter of the claim. If the
remedies the court can offer (see section 8) might
make a practical difference to you, then the test is likely
to be met.
In this case, if there was the possiblity of damages then I guess that SISU would retain 'standing' even if they no longer owned CCFC. However that's just an assumption on my part; I'm not a lawyer although I'm pretty sure SISU are well on the road to converting me to a new career in either the law or accountancy. I remember when they used to play football here.
Jackoskyblue
Well-Known Member
so essentially, it's like Hoffman going into a shop and buying all of that shops stock, he's not trying to buy the actual shop just it's goods. That's what his bid is about?
If so isn't his offer way below value, with Stevenson, willis, harries alone must be £3mil
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
We've only been relegated once since the events covered in JR 2 so relegated twice might be a stretch too far. I cant help but think that their apparent eagerness to hold onto the club is an indicator of how successful they're expecting JR2 to be, or not as the case might be. If they were confident of a win why not just sell the club now and use the consolidated losses as part of any compensation claim. Surely if they consolidated their losses they would actually then have a very real figure to pursue as compensation? Unless of course they don't fancy their chances of winning JR2.
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Ranjit Bhurpa
Well-Known Member
My Dad held 1 ordinary shares and attended the AGM on many occasions. He always made a point under AOB of quizzing Richardson about the state of the gents toilets in the Main Stand at HR. Nothing more than that but at least he was allowed the opportunity to ask the question.
The Bobster
Member
Probably one for OSB.Look at it from the opposite side. Sisu being a Hedge Fund manage investments from speculators.Would it be fair to say these investors have made very little return on their investments and if Sisu sell , the crystallised debts become reality. The investors lose their investment or get x pence in the pound . If the genuine debt is £26 - £40 M that is a frightening write off for any pension company or wealthy individuals . With Sisu track record who in their right mind would give them any funds to invest.