D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Yeah, wouldn't give anything on that basis.
I'm in for a £1000 worth of shares? (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter italiahorse
- Start date
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
I think you need to be cautious.
What seems to be suggested here is that the offer to sell shares is made on an individual basis. If you are happy to gift the new owners(whoever they are) £1000 or whatever it is, get a certificate to frame and have no real say other than the right to maybe ask a question at the AGM and to receive a copy of the accounts then do it. To be honest just donate £1000 and forget about it - nothing wrong in that, or the new club could even issue fan bonds but don't dress it up as giving fans any real involvement it isn't. A single shareholder of £1000 is going to find it hard to have any say or hold anyone responsible. It is simply additional finance raising from those who already put a significant amount of money in to the club each and every year. It isn't a strength necessarily, it doesn't actually get you involved, you really don't own much in terms of value, and you can lose it all at the whim of others..... its just a source of funds for the club.
I suppose there is an element of belonging but I would want the fans to have real belonging and a real say if they are going to funding a significant sum
If the fans want an actual voice and influence then the only way to do that is a community share issue. The fans have to group together to have any real voice and to have mechanisms to have their say more than at the AGM. To go through the last 9 years and not gain any proper say in the club future would be quite wrong in my opinion. Currently the SB Trust is set up to pull that together but I am sure others could set something up if the consensus was to not use the SB Trust. Personally I would use them
You should also be clear how funds are being put in to the project by other stakeholders - is it all in shares or is some of it loans. Do the fans pay a premium for their shares that say the consortium members do not.
If fan finance is required and it is not a community share then I like the idea of it being for a specific purpose eg bonds to help fund the building of the academy facilities. That makes more sense to me than just gifting £1000 etc
Final thought please have it clear in your head that when money goes in to a company it becomes mixed with other money there and indistinguishable - which means the money you pay at least in part goes to SISU. So long as you are comfortable with this and the above invest
Personally I wouldn't rule out investment but I would want it as part of a group investment to give the fans a proper say or for a specific project before I did invest say £1000
just my opinion
What seems to be suggested here is that the offer to sell shares is made on an individual basis. If you are happy to gift the new owners(whoever they are) £1000 or whatever it is, get a certificate to frame and have no real say other than the right to maybe ask a question at the AGM and to receive a copy of the accounts then do it. To be honest just donate £1000 and forget about it - nothing wrong in that, or the new club could even issue fan bonds but don't dress it up as giving fans any real involvement it isn't. A single shareholder of £1000 is going to find it hard to have any say or hold anyone responsible. It is simply additional finance raising from those who already put a significant amount of money in to the club each and every year. It isn't a strength necessarily, it doesn't actually get you involved, you really don't own much in terms of value, and you can lose it all at the whim of others..... its just a source of funds for the club.
I suppose there is an element of belonging but I would want the fans to have real belonging and a real say if they are going to funding a significant sum
If the fans want an actual voice and influence then the only way to do that is a community share issue. The fans have to group together to have any real voice and to have mechanisms to have their say more than at the AGM. To go through the last 9 years and not gain any proper say in the club future would be quite wrong in my opinion. Currently the SB Trust is set up to pull that together but I am sure others could set something up if the consensus was to not use the SB Trust. Personally I would use them
You should also be clear how funds are being put in to the project by other stakeholders - is it all in shares or is some of it loans. Do the fans pay a premium for their shares that say the consortium members do not.
If fan finance is required and it is not a community share then I like the idea of it being for a specific purpose eg bonds to help fund the building of the academy facilities. That makes more sense to me than just gifting £1000 etc
Final thought please have it clear in your head that when money goes in to a company it becomes mixed with other money there and indistinguishable - which means the money you pay at least in part goes to SISU. So long as you are comfortable with this and the above invest
Personally I wouldn't rule out investment but I would want it as part of a group investment to give the fans a proper say or for a specific project before I did invest say £1000
just my opinion
Last edited:
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
Then from what has been made public of the second bid I would have serious concerns and probably not invest.
olderskyblue
Well-Known Member
What was the basis of the original shares in CCFC that fans had?
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Have to say, bonds for that (and even a new stadium
) would be an interesting idea. Again, you'd have to have the constitution set out properly (wouldn't give my cash to hand over a freehold that the club promptly sold/mortgaged at a later date, for example!) but I like the idea.The downside being, of course, when it raises a whole £31,000...
Nick
Administrator
Just managed to find the pompey link to fund their academy, they raised 270k.
Tifosy - Help build a permanent home for the Pompey Academy
For starters they let you invest and get a "virtual square metre" of the training ground and then:
Tifosy - Help build a permanent home for the Pompey Academy
For starters they let you invest and get a "virtual square metre" of the training ground and then:
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
There were 55788 ordinary shares with a nominal value of 25p each and included in the accounts at 13947 according to the 2007 annual return filed at company house. Each share carried a vote
Craigavon (Robinson entity) had 24290 shares (43.5%)
Derek Higgs 8021 shares (14.3%)
M McGinnity 8021 shares (14.3%)
no other shareholder had over 1000 shares
There were over 700 shareholders in total
The directors controlled 72.1 % of the votes personally so could pretty much do as they liked.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
See, I'm not averse to that model. In an ideal world, you'd maybe limit the total shares one body could have to 20%, so you had four main shareholders plus 20% for fans, and consensus was needed to drive through any policy shifts... but even then, had (in the unlikely event) Richardson not handed his shares over to Robinson, then no one of the four main shareholders held ridiculous amounts of power, and even as above, it would have been theoretically possible to remove RObinson, had the will been there.
Practically of course that doesn't work, and Robinson carried on, endorsed by the other two, but at least fans could stamp their feet, and have *some* influence, even if just the ability to wind McGinnity up at AGMs
Nick
Administrator
Aside from the buying the club with shares, would it be an option to try and fan fund a training ground base for CCFC that would incorporate SBITC and other community stuff that the fans / community owned?
Obviously it would need to be done properly and through the correct legal channels.
Not sure how much it would raise, but it's something everybody could get behind and push.
Obviously it would need to be done properly and through the correct legal channels.
Not sure how much it would raise, but it's something everybody could get behind and push.
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
Wouldn't just throw it at them but if I can be convinced it will help and also give me a sense of ownership if only in a bit of paper I'd do it.
Sterling Archer
Well-Known Member
Would my money be going towards London Wasps as well?
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Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
olderskyblue
Well-Known Member
Mcbean
Well-Known Member
Clearly a case of i will go where i want to !How are ya doing Ken..
singers_pore
Well-Known Member
The consortium should offer different share classes with different voting rights and different prices. For example:
1 Class A share = 10000 pounds (100 voting rights)
1 Class B share = 1000 pounds (10 voting rights)
1 Class C share = 100 pounds (1 voting rights)
That way the poor people like Nick and Grendel could buy one Class C share each while the rich people like me could buy a few Class A shares. Everyone's a winner. For example, if Gary Hoffman is putting 1 million into the pot he would purchase 100 Class A shares.
1 Class A share = 10000 pounds (100 voting rights)
1 Class B share = 1000 pounds (10 voting rights)
1 Class C share = 100 pounds (1 voting rights)
That way the poor people like Nick and Grendel could buy one Class C share each while the rich people like me could buy a few Class A shares. Everyone's a winner. For example, if Gary Hoffman is putting 1 million into the pot he would purchase 100 Class A shares.
Astute
Well-Known Member
I would happily donate 1k towards a fund to get rid of SISU. Money well wasted. And depending on the plans I would donate more to help us on our way.
letsallsingtogether
Well-Known Member
Like wise