Mowbray (13 Viewers)

[skybluetony176]

Considering the team we had that is embarrassing

Not really. 10 of those games were in this season with the team that relegated us and we picked up 6 points. So it was actually 34 points in 28 games last season. which actually despite what people would have you believe about our form in the second half of 2015/16 season isn't relegation form.

 

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[CCFC_Charlie]

Not really. 10 of those games were in this season with the team that relegated us and we picked up 6 points. So it was actually 34 points in 28 games last season. which actually despite what people would have you believe about our form in the second half of 2015/16 season isn't relegation form.

To go from 35 in 18 to 34 in 28 is shocking.

 

[JimmyHillsbeard]

seems tm gets flack for summer recruitment making us shit
but recruitment that made us great season before doesnt matter lol. just cos we didnt finish 2 places higher.

Summer recruitment in 2016 was the anomaly though. All other transfer windows were shocking.
January 2016. We were top of the league at the start of the month.

To add to Cole and Bigi who were already here, Mowbray brought in the additional non-loans :-

Darius Henderson
Stephen Hunt
Peter Ramage
Martin Lorentzon

 

[Otis]

Summer recruitment in 2016 was the anomaly though. All other transfer windows were shocking.
January 2016. We were top of the league at the start of the month.

To add to Cole and Bigi who were already here, Mowbray brought in the additional non-loans :-

Darius Henderson
Stephen Hunt
Peter Ramage
Martin Lorentzon

They were bad, but at the time I was quite happy with Henderson AND Hunt.

Hopefully Henderson has now hung up his boots because his legs have gone!

 

[skybluetony176]

To go from 35 in 18 to 34 in 28 is shocking.

It ain't good. It ain't as bad people like to make out either. How often have you heard the phrase "relegation form" when describing the second half of the season. We had a bad run, no doubt but we also had two good ones, highest finish for a decade, second highest home win of the season, highest away win of the season, saw a lot of good football, saw some great goals and dared to dream. All without a pair of 40 goal strikers, without a pair of 20 goal midfielders and a much much lower budget. The notion that SP did almost as well in the Sixfields season as TM in the 2015/16 season is nonsense. ALL things considered.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

The notion that SP did almost as well in the Sixfields season as TM in the 2015/16 season is nonsense.

No it isn't.

Frankly, what is ludicrous is having this comparing between the two, given that what they both show is that a competent manager can manage our club well if they have drive and energy, but to keep that up for a sustained period given the background carnage, is well-nigh impossible.

However, it's farcical to demean Pressley's Sixfields effort, too. Have we forgotten what it was like then, the carnage, the disruption, the abomination of ripping apart the fabric of the club... and that the manager had to pick that up? And that's even ignoring the fact we were starting from a position of negative points.

Notwithstanding that, even a comparison of player per player is disingenuous. Wilson was on the edge of being released, but Pressley saw enought to keep him and, moreover, adapt his preferred one striker formation to find him a place. Moussa has been a disaster since leaving CCFC, but Pressley got the best out of him. Ditto, Clarke was in and out of a promotion winning side, so not considered worthy of a place in such a team. Pressley, again, got the best out of him. Then we have the likes of Aaron Martin, who wasn't even with us in the Sixfields season. Pressley moved heaven and earth to try and sign him however, and eventually did. Why? Because he was better, in Pressley's mind, then the centre backs he had available. Mowbray, meanwhile, released him... considering the centre backs at the club of a higher standard than Martin. Just how bad, then, would Mowbray have considered a defence of Webster and Jordan Clarke?

Then we have Billy Daniels, Danny Seaborne, Connor Thomas (released by Mowbray as worse than Gadzhev) and the like.

To run down Pressley is as much, if not more, of a disgrace than running down Mowbray. Both had their faults, both tried their best for the club, both had periods of success, and both can have criticisms fairly levelled at them.

But don't, just don't, diminish the job Pressley did while we were at Sixfields. We might be at a low ebb now, but without the manager being able to bond the players together, and get them playing some sensational stuff, things could be even worse than they are now.

 

[ccfcway]

in a season where we tumble from one disaster to another, there are still 2 things that stand out as bizarre

1. TM trying to get championship players, knowing we had a mid to lower league budget
2. Our cash strapped club turning down a bid for Lamerais, only to release him a few months later

 

[skybluetony176]

No it isn't.

Frankly, what is ludicrous is having this comparing between the two, given that what they both show is that a competent manager can manage our club well if they have drive and energy, but to keep that up for a sustained period given the background carnage, is well-nigh impossible.

However, it's farcical to demean Pressley's Sixfields effort, too. Have we forgotten what it was like then, the carnage, the disruption, the abomination of ripping apart the fabric of the club... and that the manager had to pick that up? And that's even ignoring the fact we were starting from a position of negative points.

Notwithstanding that, even a comparison of player per player is disingenuous. Wilson was on the edge of being released, but Pressley saw enought to keep him and, moreover, adapt his preferred one striker formation to find him a place. Moussa has been a disaster since leaving CCFC, but Pressley got the best out of him. Ditto, Clarke was in and out of a promotion winning side, so not considered worthy of a place in such a team. Pressley, again, got the best out of him. Then we have the likes of Aaron Martin, who wasn't even with us in the Sixfields season. Pressley moved heaven and earth to try and sign him however, and eventually did the following season. Why? Because he was better, in Pressley's mind, then the centre backs he had available. Mowbray, meanwhile, released him... considering the centre backs at the club of a higher standard than Martin. Just how bad, then, would Mowbray have considered a defence of Webster and Jordan Clarke?

Then we have Billy Daniels, Danny Seaborne, Connor Thomas (released by Mowbray as worse than Gadzhev) and the like.

To run down Pressley is as much, if not more, of a disgrace than running down Mowbray. Both had their faults, both tried their best for the club, both had periods of success, and both can have criticisms fairly levelled at them.

But don't, just don't, diminish the job Pressley did while we were at Sixfields. We might be at a low ebb now, but without the manager being able to bond the players together, and get them playing some sensational stuff, things could be even worse than they are now.

Not disagreeing with your first paragraph at all.

I'm really not demeaning (or at least not intending to) SP's season at Sixfields. I actually think that all things considered he did an excellent job. Yes he had a better squad but he also had a far worse situation to deal with than TM so to some degree it's swings and roundabouts.

But ALL things considered I still think TM did a far better job. He had a much smaller budget, he didn't have a 40 goals a season pairing up front (that's with Clarke going in January and CW missing a couple of months with injury), he didn't have 20 goals from midfield (that's with Mousa missing most of the second half of the season with injury and baker being a fairly regular sick note also), he didn't have Murphy in goal, he also had little chance of signing players of this calibre on our budget, let's remember all those players moved up in the world after leaving us. Yet he still managed a higher finish (even if you add the ten points back on) and with a twenty goal swing in favour of a better goal difference i.e. positive not negative. Even with the dip from January to March he did more with less. In terms of the squad. The stats speak for themselves, as does the final tables.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

he had a better squad

So I list a bunch of players released by Mowbray, or released in favour of players released by Mowbray... and this is all you say.

If Pressley had a better squad, why wasn't Webster kept on by Mowbray? Why not Aaron Phillips? Or how about Jim O'Brien? What about Aaron Martin?

On the comparible players, brought into the squad and team by Pressley... Mowbray thought he could find better!

The likes of Moussa only moved up because of Pressley's management. Without that he's struggled to get into 14th place Walsall's side, and has been released. Compare that to Murphy. Adam Armstrong has played more games in the division above than Leon Clarke has managed in ours, this season.

To try and objectify the player comparison is barking anyway, and fuck knows why I'm lowering myself to this, but the squad Pressley had has not, Wilson notwithstanding (who can owe a lot of his career to Pressley's faith in him) gone from strength to strength - unless playing in the Scottish Championship with St Mirren is an aspirational goal, of course.

 

[skybluetony176]

So I list a bunch of players released by Mowbray, or released in favour of players released by Mowbray... and this is all you say.

If Pressley had a better squad, why wasn't Webster kept on by Mowbray? Why not Aaron Phillips? Or how about Jim O'Brien? What about Aaron Martin?

On the comparible players, brought into the squad and team by Pressley... Mowbray thought he could find better!

What's the released list got to do with having Wilson, Clarke, Mousa, Baker on the books contributing 60 goals between them (almost as many as the whole 15/16 squad) and having Murphy in goal who despite shipping 74 goals IIRC in that season I think you'd struggle to find anyone who would claim Burge or RCC are superior keepers. Fact is we got lucky with a lot of players 15/16 because we didn't have the budget to recruit players in the mould or calibre of what Wilson, Clarke, Mousa and Baker were in at Sixfields. That's a very big advantage that TM never had. Again, yet he achieved more.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

What's the released list got to do with having Wilson, Clarke, Mousa, Baker on the books contributing 60 goals between them on the books (almost as many as the whole 15/16 squad) and having Murphy in goal who despite shipping 74 goals IIRC in that season I think you'd struggle to find anyone who would claim Burge or RCC are superior keepers. Fact is we got lucky with a lot of players 15/16 because we didn't have the budget to recruit players in the mould or calibre of what Wilson, Clarke, Mousa and Baker were in at Sixfields. That's a very big advantage that TM never had. Again, yet he achieved more.

It's almost like you refuse to engage with anything I say, and just choose to repeat parrot fashion. At least I know why threads descend into a you v Grendel borathon now.

 

[Grendel]

It's almost like you refuse to engage with anything I say, and just choose to repeat parrot fashion. At least I know why threads descend into a you v Grendel borathon now.

Is this Tony - I ignore him - the world is such a much clearer place.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Is this Tony - I ignore him - the world is such a much clearer place.

Ohhh there you are Grenduffy!... Suddenly went quiet on the thread after me proving you wrong once again regarding ownership and majority shareholding in the BPA. Was wondering where you'd got to! Hahaha.

 

[skybluetony176]

It's almost like you refuse to engage with anything I say, and just choose to repeat parrot fashion. At least I know why threads descend into a you v Grendel borathon now.

Says the man who won't acknowledge that 60 goals from 4 players in a season is a big advantage. Four players who right there would have made a big big difference to Mowbray's team. I'd have swapped AA and Murphy (no disrespect to them) for Sixfields Clarke and Wilson (or players in that calibre) in a heart beat and I would think you would as well. I dare say you could say the same about Sixfields Mousa and Baker for our best two attacking midfielders under Mowbray. Sorry but anyone we've tried to replace them four players alone with haven't been anywhere near as good and no manager (including Pressley) ever had a chance of doing it because of budget constraints meaning we couldn't afford too without a huge slice of luck finding a gem, the nearest we've came to that is AA on loan so even then you're talking one player out of four replaced.

 

[Grendel]

Ohhh there you are Grenduffy!... Suddenly went quiet on the thread after me proving you wrong once again regarding ownership and majority shareholding in the BPA. Was wondering where you'd got to! Hahaha.

Ive been posting on the thread. Your cut and paste job proved nothing. After negotiations and mutual benefit discussions CCFC would be at least joint partners in any arrangement.

 

[skybluetony176]

Is this Tony - I ignore him - the world is such a much clearer place.

Funnily enough it isn't any cloudier. I question you now and you answer/correct me as much as you always have i.e. not at all. Just don't get your waffle, distraction tactics, fake facts, conjecture masquerading as fact, presumption masquerading as fact and the duality of multiple contradicting opinions on the same thing under the illusion that this never makes you wrong when in fact it never makes you right.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

What do you think of Pressley? He got an even more threadbare squad playing great football

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Pressley would have got more time from the fans if he didn't treat us like idiots tbh

The sixfields team fell into his lap, none were his signings but tbf he did have them playing well, could have a future in the game as a coach. It was when pressley had to make his own decisions and build a new team that he fucked everything up.

The team mowbray had was pretty much put together by him and his team in one window.

Admittedly it went wrong last summer but I still genuinely believe he would have kept us up in the season just gone and in future season could have got us promoted, but mowbray seemed to lose interest when the summer window didn't go right.

 

[steve82]

Summer recruitment in 2016 was the anomaly though. All other transfer windows were shocking.
January 2016. We were top of the league at the start of the month.

To add to Cole and Bigi who were already here, Mowbray brought in the additional non-loans :-

Darius Henderson
Stephen Hunt
Peter Ramage
Martin Lorentzon

I don't actually blame TM for the free signings so much of Ramage, Hunt, Henderson and Lorentzson. The squad was very young and had started to flag a little after the Gillingham game and had set in by December, alarm bells were there they needed support and experience. With losing Reda, and then Turner with Martin out injured too we needed players quick, good players in cargill and Stephens came in but that maxed us out on loans. With...

Armstrong
Murphy
Cargill
Stephens
Maddison
JJ
Bigirimana

That's 7 loans, you can only have 5 in your match day squad, so with sisu not making funds available you can see what he tried but failed to do with the 4 free signings.

Now, What I don't get is 6 months later after having all them loans and it scuppering any real chance of reinforcements coming in that January he goes and builds the squad the same way again, another maximum set of loans in
McCann
Page
Sterry
Agyei
Wright
McBean
Especially when he said the club needed to be less reliant on loans and have its own players.
He and his team ultimately failed to identify the players we could afford and realistically sign like other hamstrung league one clubs did over the summer to be able to supplement with key loans.
He'd had 15 months experience in day to day football at league one level to know what the league needed. Ex championship players wasn't all that necessary.



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[fernandopartridge]

No it isn't.

Frankly, what is ludicrous is having this comparing between the two, given that what they both show is that a competent manager can manage our club well if they have drive and energy, but to keep that up for a sustained period given the background carnage, is well-nigh impossible.

However, it's farcical to demean Pressley's Sixfields effort, too. Have we forgotten what it was like then, the carnage, the disruption, the abomination of ripping apart the fabric of the club... and that the manager had to pick that up? And that's even ignoring the fact we were starting from a position of negative points.

Notwithstanding that, even a comparison of player per player is disingenuous. Wilson was on the edge of being released, but Pressley saw enought to keep him and, moreover, adapt his preferred one striker formation to find him a place. Moussa has been a disaster since leaving CCFC, but Pressley got the best out of him. Ditto, Clarke was in and out of a promotion winning side, so not considered worthy of a place in such a team. Pressley, again, got the best out of him. Then we have the likes of Aaron Martin, who wasn't even with us in the Sixfields season. Pressley moved heaven and earth to try and sign him however, and eventually did. Why? Because he was better, in Pressley's mind, then the centre backs he had available. Mowbray, meanwhile, released him... considering the centre backs at the club of a higher standard than Martin. Just how bad, then, would Mowbray have considered a defence of Webster and Jordan Clarke?

Then we have Billy Daniels, Danny Seaborne, Connor Thomas (released by Mowbray as worse than Gadzhev) and the like.

To run down Pressley is as much, if not more, of a disgrace than running down Mowbray. Both had their faults, both tried their best for the club, both had periods of success, and both can have criticisms fairly levelled at them.

But don't, just don't, diminish the job Pressley did while we were at Sixfields. We might be at a low ebb now, but without the manager being able to bond the players together, and get them playing some sensational stuff, things could be even worse than they are now.

Excellent post. To be fair to Pressley he didn't meekly throw the towel in like certain others.

 

[fernandopartridge]

One more on Pressley, signings were hit and miss (particularly loans) but he had to cut the wage bill massively in 2013 and again in 2014. He did sign Stokes, Martin and JOB permanently who were all reasonably good. Have far more respect for him than Mowbray.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

One more on Pressley, signings were hit and miss (particularly loans) but he had to cut the wage bill massively in 2013 and again in 2014. He did sign Stokes, Martin and JOB permanently who were all reasonably good. Have far more respect for him than Mowbray.

I have no great problem with either tbh. Only thing I would say, is Pressley seemed keener to blood youngsters, and not be over-reliant on loans, so in terms of the infrastructure of the club,that would be better.

Mowbray however did have a previous reputation for giving youngsters a go, so whether it was the need to go for promotion or bust which stopped that happening, who knows...

 

[thekidfromstrettoncamp]

Ive been posting on the thread. Your cut and paste job proved nothing. After negotiations and mutual benefit discussions CCFC would be at least joint partners in any arrangement.

Since being here can you tell us times when Sisu have had negotiations even when there was talk of a proposed deal at the butts they were putting conditions in instead of going in and doing a bit of listening they don't do negotiations they try to dictate and mutual has no WE in it and joint partners means you have to invest apart from that the rest of your post is fair.

 

[Ibby]

Feel for Mowbray.

 

[skybluetony176]

One more on Pressley, signings were hit and miss (particularly loans) but he had to cut the wage bill massively in 2013 and again in 2014. He did sign Stokes, Martin and JOB permanently who were all reasonably good. Have far more respect for him than Mowbray.

Stokes was a loan who arrived with Hockaday, not sure Pressley had anything to do with it as he was already being lined up to be pushed out the door at the time (he was sacked two days after Stokes arrived). It was also Mowbray who signed him on a permanent not Pressley.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Ive been posting on the thread. Your cut and paste job proved nothing. After negotiations and mutual benefit discussions CCFC would be at least joint partners in any arrangement.

Do you mean the "Cut and Paste" of a QUOTE???....From non other than John Sharpe himself??? I think you need to come into the real world mate!

 

[Grendel]

Do you mean the "Cut and Paste" of a QUOTE???....From non other than John Sharpe himself??? I think you need to come into the real world mate!

That's interesting.

Shall I cut and paste a few quotes - how about the one from Nick Eastwood about remaining in the west of London or from Tim Fisher about building a new stadium?

 

[skybluetony176]

That's interesting.

Shall I cut and paste a few quotes - how about the one from Nick Eastwood about remaining in the west of London or from Tim Fisher about building a new stadium?

I see Tim Fisher is telling lies again when it suits.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

That's interesting.

Shall I cut and paste a few quotes - how about the one from Nick Eastwood about remaining in the west of London or from Tim Fisher about building a new stadium?

So.. You're gullible enough to let a "Tenant" dictate terms of a "Rental/share" which, from what I gather from your previous post, CCFC will have, and I QUOTE!.. "At least half shares"... Dream on Nut job!

 

[Grendel]

So.. You're gullible enough to let a "Tenant" dictate terms of a "Rental/share" which, from what I gather from your previous post, CCFC will have, and I QUOTE!.. "At least half shares"... Dream on Nut job!

No one knows do they what the outcome of a negotiation would be?

 

[martcov]

That's interesting.

Shall I cut and paste a few quotes - how about the one from Nick Eastwood about remaining in the west of London or from Tim Fisher about building a new stadium?

Can you post the one where TF said he wouldn't have taken the same deal as Wasps because of the loan. Might help with the JR....

 

[Astute]

No one knows do they what the outcome of a negotiation would be?

Most of us being shocked that SISU finally negotiate something?

 

[covcity4life]

They were bad, but at the time I was quite happy with Henderson AND Hunt.

Hopefully Henderson has now hung up his boots because his legs have gone!

i am glad you said this as i remember the whole forum being so happy we had bought in someone like henderson

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

Excellent post. To be fair to Pressley he didn't meekly throw the towel in like certain others.

I wish he had, instead he waited till he got a pay off to leave.

 

[covcity4life]

I wish he had, instead he waited till he got a pay off to leave.

pressley era at ricoh only slightly worse than slades for me. couldnt wait for him to be sacked.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

No one knows do they what the outcome of a negotiation would be?

To quote a old friend of mine..Stephen Mulhern.."Unbelieveable"