How close is a takeover really...? (13 Viewers)

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hutch1972

hutch1972

Well-Known Member
dongonzalos said:
I can only think that there is a higher level of compensation from the legal action if they still own the club. Nothing else makes sense.
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Owning the cub wouldn't make any difference to bring the case, but I see your point about possible amounts.
I suppose for every day they own us, they could get more.
 
hutch1972

hutch1972

Well-Known Member
Senior Vick from Alicante said:
The losses that are made in the CCFC structure come under a portfolio of funds or businesses, buy showing losses in one of the portfolios you can offset the corporation tax owed on the profits made by your other investments in that porfolio. The more losses you can show mean the better returns in your other interests is as I understand it, waiting to be corrected by OSB. If you are running a cash neutral business that has heavy debts surely that means you earn more money in the others as the debts are owed to your own company all be it offshore.
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I thought that to offset tax on another company it had to be the same trade ?
Kin glad I didn't try my hand at accounting.
 
mrtrench

mrtrench

Well-Known Member
Senior Vick from Alicante said:
The losses that are made in the CCFC structure come under a portfolio of funds or businesses, buy showing losses in one of the portfolios you can offset the corporation tax owed on the profits made by your other investments in that porfolio. The more losses you can show mean the better returns in your other interests is as I understand it, waiting to be corrected by OSB. If you are running a cash neutral business that has heavy debts surely that means you earn more money in the others as the debts are owed to your own company all be it offshore.
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Can I manage your investments please? I promise to make a loss every year, so you'll be quids in.
 
H

HuckerbyDublinWhelan

Well-Known Member
Maybe they just don't want to sell the club? It's all good saying name your price, but if you don't want to sell you don't have to.

Also technically the club isn't losing money is it, the money that takes it to that point is creative accounting - I.e interest on loans to Arvo, management fees etc isn't that just paper debt?
 
Nick

Nick

Administrator
Senior Vick from Alicante said:
The losses that are made in the CCFC structure come under a portfolio of funds or businesses, buy showing losses in one of the portfolios you can offset the corporation tax owed on the profits made by your other investments in that porfolio. The more losses you can show mean the better returns in your other interests is as I understand it, waiting to be corrected by OSB. If you are running a cash neutral business that has heavy debts surely that means you earn more money in the others as the debts are owed to your own company all be it offshore.
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If I remember, he said it was bollocks. Not those exact words but can't think of an accountant translation. Tripe maybe?
 
mrtrench

mrtrench

Well-Known Member
I just thought of another way it would be advantageous to make a tax loss. Imagine an international company has to have an on-shore company to operate. Tax rates are high in this country, so it charges fees from an offshore company so that the on-shore one makes a loss. It then pays much less tax or nothing offshore.

However, I still cannot think of a scenario where the company wants to make a real trading loss.
 
Captain Dart

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
Ricketts said:
Maybe they've realised that if it is a good investment for someone else, then it is also a good investment for them.

The best way to get a good return on thier investment is to run the club properly. With the appointment of Mark Robins they seem to be doing this.

If there had been a new owner in March and they had appointed Robins and things had happened as they have been we would all be singing from the rooftops.

Personally I am prepared to let them continue. They seem to be doing things right.
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When did you have your lobotomy?
 
D

dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
Ricketts said:
Maybe they've realised that if it is a good investment for someone else, then it is also a good investment for them.

The best way to get a good return on thier investment is to run the club properly. With the appointment of Mark Robins they seem to be doing this.

If there had been a new owner in March and they had appointed Robins and things had happened as they have been we would all be singing from the rooftops.

Personally I am prepared to let them continue. They seem to be doing things right.
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So do you base running things right on the basis of making signings in division 4 and appointing what seems like a decent manager at this level?

The main leadership has not changed from the people who.......

Refused to comit us to a long term rental agreement when an acceptable one that handshakes were done on was on the table.

Moved us to Northampton which decimated our fan base and has done long term damage to the future of the club as so many fans have now moved on with their lives.

Failed to see that the council were telling them to put their best bid in before they sold to someone else (Wasps). That this was the point when they had won and was the moment to do the deal Wasps did.

Repeatedly told us we were building a new stadium.

Changed their A plan from a new stadium out of Coventry, to inside Coventry. To a long term rental at the Ricoh, to moving to the butts.

That cannot grasp the damage the legal action did and continues to do to the club, despite the limited chance it has of success

That have managed to screw up a great deal that we had going in with the academy facilities.

Our future stay at the Ricoh is in danger.

The Butts won't deal with us unless we resolve the legal action.

Personally sorry taking on Mark Robins and discovering that at division 4 wages we can make signings quickly, hasn't quite won me over yet that they running the club well.
 
Bob Latchford

Bob Latchford

Well-Known Member
standupforcity said:
There definitely seems to be something happening and the signs are encouraging what with signings and Robins clearly throwing his lot behind an immediate return to Div 1. But we're dealing with sisu here, and when they've been asked to 'name their price', why haven't they leaped at it? You have to ask, why would they hang on if getting the best offer is no longer an issue! 'Name you price'...why haven't they?! We all know that getting rid of sisu would hail a new start for City, and I'm sure there would be a heightened sense of excitement, and the momentum could be incredible. This seems to be a no-brainer for sisu...but they just don't see it.....unless there's something we just don't get, and CCFC is a massive asset for sisu in their eyes, but how is it!! I'm baffled...
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It would appear to everyone else , it would make sense for them to go . however , as they're here for 'none football reasons' i suspect it suits them to stay , for only reasons known to themselves .
 
Polar

Polar

Well-Known Member
Maybe vastly oversimplifying...but the reason SISU hang on looks clear to me.

If you agree with the view that the club has significant debts, then it makes complete sense that SISU don't want a quick sell.

Even if they owe 40 million to their creditors, it is a 'good' debt if they are able to make small operating profits year on year (which they have been doing through cutting costs and player sales).

You could take the view that they are trying to take very few financial risks, and just get that small, slow burn year on year profit. The debt will come good in 40 years.

That's a great way to run a hedge fund: the creditors have supposedly invested millions, which will be realised over a long period of time with interest.

I think most of us agree though that it is not a good way to run a football club - slow servicing of a debt at the cost of our league status and an overall devaluing of our business.

SISU won't 'cut their losses' because they need their debt to be fully realised - so Hoffman et al need to buy the whole debt, whatever that is.

Do we know if Hoffman's consortium has the resources to do this, assuming SISU report £40-60m of debt on their books?


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smouch1975

smouch1975

Well-Known Member
Ricketts said:
Maybe they've realised that if it is a good investment for someone else, then it is also a good investment for them.

The best way to get a good return on thier investment is to run the club properly. With the appointment of Mark Robins they seem to be doing this.

If there had been a new owner in March and they had appointed Robins and things had happened as they have been we would all be singing from the rooftops.

Personally I am prepared to let them continue. They seem to be doing things right.
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Where did this c*nt come from?

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skybluedan

skybluedan

Well-Known Member
They ain't never gonna sell , God knows why and none of us do , me I just think there dodgy cunts up to no good and there cunts , Hoffman and a consortium will try again in a few years like they did last time , then we will have a investor unveiling himself in he paper again , joy still won't talk , fishers still a c**t
Deja vue time again
 
Sick Boy

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
Ricketts said:
Maybe they've realised that if it is a good investment for someone else, then it is also a good investment for them.

The best way to get a good return on thier investment is to run the club properly. With the appointment of Mark Robins they seem to be doing this.

If there had been a new owner in March and they had appointed Robins and things had happened as they have been we would all be singing from the rooftops.

Personally I am prepared to let them continue. They seem to be doing things right.
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Indeed! SISU IN!!
 
R

rupert_bear

Well-Known Member
Is it down to exactly who own the club ? We all say sisu/ Joy Sepalla but is it those who initially invested when sisu took over. Ibelieve that Brody bloke was one investor and there are others so would selling be their collective decision or Joy Sepalla's ? Also I still think as the nearer we get to the end of this coming season with no decision on where we are to play the weaker sisu become. This guy Cashmore who's going to put money in and others yet to be named have serious money behind them and I don't think they are going away either
 
standupforcity

standupforcity

Well-Known Member
Polar said:
Maybe vastly oversimplifying...but the reason SISU hang on looks clear to me.

If you agree with the view that the club has significant debts, then it makes complete sense that SISU don't want a quick sell.

Even if they owe 40 million to their creditors, it is a 'good' debt if they are able to make small operating profits year on year (which they have been doing through cutting costs and player sales).

You could take the view that they are trying to take very few financial risks, and just get that small, slow burn year on year profit. The debt will come good in 40 years.

That's a great way to run a hedge fund: the creditors have supposedly invested millions, which will be realised over a long period of time with interest.

I think most of us agree though that it is not a good way to run a football club - slow servicing of a debt at the cost of our league status and an overall devaluing of our business.

SISU won't 'cut their losses' because they need their debt to be fully realised - so Hoffman et al need to buy the whole debt, whatever that is.

Do we know if Hoffman's consortium has the resources to do this, assuming SISU report £40-60m of debt on their books?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

...'so Hoffman et al need to buy the whole debt, whatever that is'...presumably this would be included in 'name your price'...or it means nothing!
 
Polar

Polar

Well-Known Member
standupforcity said:
...'so Hoffman et al need to buy the whole debt, whatever that is'...presumably this would be included in 'name your price'...or it means nothing!
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Yeah sure, and i wonder what they would want on top of that too...

Appreciate i'm stating the obvious, i guess i'm just saying they they would only consider a knockout bid that makes good their previous losses.


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robbiekeane

robbiekeane

Well-Known Member
mrtrench said:
I just thought of another way it would be advantageous to make a tax loss. Imagine an international company has to have an on-shore company to operate. Tax rates are high in this country, so it charges fees from an offshore company so that the on-shore one makes a loss. It then pays much less tax or nothing offshore.

However, I still cannot think of a scenario where the company wants to make a real trading loss.
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A bit like starbucks were doing I guess. Vertically integrated with the coffee beans producer and then sold the coffee beans at a ridiculous price to themselves so that the coffee beans producer made a healthy profit in a lower tax environment and the coffee shop side of the business broke even.

At least I think that's what they were doing. But yes not applicable here
 
Esoterica

Esoterica

Well-Known Member
standupforcity said:
There definitely seems to be something happening and the signs are encouraging what with signings and Robins clearly throwing his lot behind an immediate return to Div 1. But we're dealing with sisu here, and when they've been asked to 'name their price', why haven't they leaped at it? You have to ask, why would they hang on if getting the best offer is no longer an issue! 'Name you price'...why haven't they?! We all know that getting rid of sisu would hail a new start for City, and I'm sure there would be a heightened sense of excitement, and the momentum could be incredible. This seems to be a no-brainer for sisu...but they just don't see it.....unless there's something we just don't get, and CCFC is a massive asset for sisu in their eyes, but how is it!! I'm baffled...
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Oh thank god you're ok. I was so worried about you after they released Lameiras. I'll let Interpol know you're alive and well!!
 
standupforcity

standupforcity

Well-Known Member
Esoterica said:
Oh thank god you're ok. I was so worried about you after they released Lameiras. I'll let Interpol know you're alive and well!!
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Actually I'm not at all surprised...he's way too good for Div 2 football, and I look forward to seeing where he emerges next...
 
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