General Election (27 Viewers)

[Grendel]

Corbyn and Abbott are career polititions never done a days work in their life.
Talking of schools,Are her kids still educated privately?
Pot and Kettle comes to mind.
Do as I say not as I do,They will never get the working mans vote while they are all on the front bench I'm afraid.
Just back to a protest party after thursday holding their placards shouting abuse at everyone who doesn't vote labour calling them racist's!!

She has a son who was privately educated. She herself was from grammar school educated and an Oxbridge graduate.

Mr Corbyn was also of course a prodigee of the grammar system.

 

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[Grendel]

careerist politicians? What, like johnson and may who were firmly behind remain until they sniffed a shot a number 10, or perhaps opportunist politicians is a better word.
I know who'll be getting this working mans vote.
I'm actually not a big fan of Abbot but I still prefer her to anyone in the current cabinet.

Johnson was a journalist.

Abbott is one of the most sneering, duplicitous and incompetent politicians that has ever existed. That's quite an honour given the competition.

Not only did she get her son a private education she even had the audacity to play the race card and say it was only as he was black.

 

[clint van damme]

Johnson was a journalist.

Abbott is one of the most sneering, duplicitous and incompetent politicians that has ever existed. That's quite an honour given the competition.

Not only did she get her son a private education she even had the audacity to play the race card and say it was only as he was black.

like I say, not her biggest fan, I still prefer her to boris, a loathsome individual.

 

[Grendel]

so you don't think every child deserves a chance/

Anyone voting for mr Corbyn will deny every child of that chance.

Corbynomics will collapse. The share index will capitulate, the pound will crash to low levels previously unseen and jobs will go.

Under the union control pay demands will escalate in the public sector and interest rates and inflation will soar. Mortgage defaults will be common place and unemployment will treble.

Some chance.

 

[Johnnythespider]

Anyone voting for mr Corbyn will deny every child of that chance.

Corbynomics will collapse. The share index will capitulate, the pound will crash to low levels previously unseen and jobs will go.

Under the union control pay demands will escalate in the public sector and interest rates and inflation will soar. Mortgage defaults will be common place and unemployment will treble.

Some chance.

Can't wait, or it could be more people dying on trolleys in hospital corridors, more food banks, rich people continuing to get richer while the poor get poorer, the old losing their homes in order to pay for care. I'm voting for the kind of society I want to live in and the Tories simply fall way short on that for me.


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[Grendel]

Can't wait, or it could be more people dying on trolleys in hospital corridors, more food banks, rich people continuing to get richer while the poor get poorer, the old losing their homes in order to pay for care. I'm voting for the kind of society I want to live in and the Tories simply fall way short on that for me.


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In a Corbyn society everyone gets poorer.

Open the box and even hope will fly away.

 

[clint van damme]

Anyone voting for mr Corbyn will deny every child of that chance.

Corbynomics will collapse. The share index will capitulate, the pound will crash to low levels previously unseen and jobs will go.

Under the union control pay demands will escalate in the public sector and interest rates and inflation will soar. Mortgage defaults will be common place and unemployment will treble.

Some chance.

the pounds already in trouble. Growth is shuddering to a holt, wages are contracting and working people are skint, health and education are fucked.

Education is particularly worrying, it's an investment in the future, one which the tories aren't making. We are falling behind all the other developed nations.

I'm prepared to take my chances with Corbyn.

 

[Liquid Gold]

You get the government you deserve. Enjoy dying in a hospital corridor because you don't have the money to afford insurance.

 

[Grendel]

You get the government you deserve. Enjoy dying in a hospital corridor because you don't have the money to afford insurance.

Under the previous administration that reflected Mr Corbyns failed dogma you couldn't even bury your dead.

Good luck.

 

[Liquid Gold]

Under the previous administration that reflected Mr Corbyns failed dogma you couldn't even bury your dead.

Good luck.

NORWAY. SWEDEN. DENMARK.

It's social democracy you moron, not marxism. It works.

 

[lifeskyblue]

Corbyn has the better ideas but do we believe we can pay for it. Policy ideas have been costed but many disagree with the costings.
May hasn't costed many policies and as soon as anyone questions the manifesto (either what is or is not in it) it changes. Strong and stable or bend to any breeze?
The Tories have had 7 years in power and are we better off than before? Or is the country well and truly broken and that whoever is the pm after Thursday we will continue with the same divisions between rich and poor, old and young, people of different races, cultures and religions.



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[Grendel]

NORWAY. SWEDEN. DENMARK.

It's social democracy you moron, not marxism. It works.

A moron?

Ok you mention Scandinavia so let's look at all their policies and compare them to Corbyn

Let's go Sweden - Health care - free at the point of care - yes or no?

 

[lifeskyblue]

Swedish health care largely funded through taxation. But there is some private. Organised v differently in local, regional and national. Sweden v concerned re encroachment of further privatisation.
Denmark...health care paid through taxes and free at point of delivery.


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[clint van damme]

Swedish health care largely funded through taxation. But there is some private. Organised v differently in local, regional and national. Sweden v concerned re encroachment of further privatisation.
Denmark...health care paid through taxes and free at point of delivery.

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Can you not claim back fees for private health care, I think certain conditions need to be met.

 

[mrtrench]

A moron?

Ok you mention Scandinavia so let's look at all their policies and compare them to Corbyn

Let's go Sweden - Health care - free at the point of care - yes or no?

And their national debt is around 40% of GDP. Corbyn inherits nearly 100% and plans to borrow more. What happens to government debt when supply exceeds demand?

 

[skybluetony176]

NORWAY. SWEDEN. DENMARK.

It's social democracy you moron, not marxism. It works.

More too it than that though. More people live in London than the entire population of Denmark for instance. Denmark is a lot easier to govern and administer purely based on population alone which makes it more efficient. It is apparently the most contented nation in the world, I'll give you that but the cost of living is high as is taxation for all, not just the rich. It also relies heavily on private investment. The road and rail bridges for instance that links the islands to the mainland. So there are tolls to pay that make both road and rail travel expensive.

It is a great little country though with great people. I'd highly recommend it to anyone to visit. Spent a lot of time there over the years. Never been to Sweden or Norway so can't really comment to much about them.

 

[lifeskyblue]

Can you not claim back fees for private health care, I think certain conditions need to be met.

Yes swedes claim back nearly all health care fees. They are concerned tho that the encroachment of private services is pushing up overall costs.


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[Grendel]

Swedish health care largely funded through taxation. But there is some private. Organised v differently in local, regional and national. Sweden v concerned re encroachment of further privatisation.
Denmark...health care paid through taxes and free at point of delivery.


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Good old Wiki eh? What's it missing?

 

[Grendel]

Yes swedes claim back nearly all health care fees. They are concerned tho that the encroachment of private services is pushing up overall costs.


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I assisted a colleague a few years ago in researching funding of healthcare across Europe. Of course things may have changed but certainly in Sweden at the time all initial appointments to the system were paid for with no recompense

So payment for doctor appointments - good or bad?

 

[clint van damme]

More too it than that though. More people live in London than the entire population of Denmark for instance. Denmark is a lot easier to govern and administer purely based on population alone which makes it more efficient. It is apparently the most contented nation in the world, I'll give you that but the cost of living is high as is taxation for all, not just the rich. It also relies heavily on private investment. The road and rail bridges for instance that links the islands to the mainland. So there are tolls to pay that make both road and rail travel expensive.

It is a great little country though with great people. I'd highly recommend it to anyone to visit. Spent a lot of time there over the years. Never been to Sweden or Norway so can't really comment to much about them.

never been Scandinavia, would love to go.

 

[lifeskyblue]

Good old Wiki eh? What's it missing?

I also teach comparative social policy of which health care is a vital section of lectures. In the 1980s I wrote a paper on the Swedish 7 Crowns reforms (health reforms).
And yes wiki is useful...but my paper was written well before anyone had heard of it.




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[Grendel]

And their national debt is around 40% of GDP. Corbyn inherits nearly 100% and plans to borrow more. What happens to government debt when supply exceeds demand?

Well yes this is why the comparison is absurd. It's three of the most debt low non industrialised countries in Europe that are social liberal in ideology

It was the comparison Salmond tried to portray in the referendum and was rightly mocked for that very reason. Perhaps he will suggest we model ourselves on Bermuda next

Also the scandanvians would reject Corbyn as they would correctly view him as an extreme unstable politician. A spend spend borrow borrow mantra doesn't sit well with the financially prudent countries he refers to.

 

[Grendel]

I also teach comparative social policy of which health care is a vital section of lectures. In the 1980s I wrote a paper on the Swedish 7 Crowns reforms (health reforms).
And yes wiki is useful...but my paper was written well before anyone had heard of it.




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Do they still charge for appointments then ?

 

[skybluetony176]

never been Scandinavia, would love to go.

It's great. Go to Copenhagen in December is my recommendation. Tivoli is fantastic at that time of year plus the Christmas beers are available.

 

[lifeskyblue]

Do they still charge for appointments then ?

There are charges...depends on whether local or national service as to how much and what can be claimed.


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[lifeskyblue]

It's great. Go to Copenhagen in December is my recommendation. Tivoli is fantastic at that time of year plus the Christmas bears are available.

Tony absolutely right. Tivoli a magical place all year but at Christmas just a little extra special.

Edit: sorry Tony. Originally got your name wrong.
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[torchomatic]

Anyone voting for mr Corbyn will deny every child of that chance.

Corbynomics will collapse. The share index will capitulate, the pound will crash to low levels previously unseen and jobs will go.

Under the union control pay demands will escalate in the public sector and interest rates and inflation will soar. Mortgage defaults will be common place and unemployment will treble.

Some chance.

I have a piece of advice to pass on. When you get old pray you get cancer and not dementia, your family will be fine financially then.

 

[Grendel]

NORWAY. SWEDEN. DENMARK.

It's social democracy you moron, not marxism. It works.

In one respect I actually agree with you and at least you acknowledge Corbyn is a liar regarding his desires on taxation. As you've been on a course in sure you are aware of the taxation systems in these countries.

Are you admitting Mr Corbyn will have to resort to the draconian and punitive systems these countries - especially Denmark - operate?

 

[Grendel]

I have a piece of advice to pass on. When you get old pray you get cancer and not dementia, your family will be fine financially then.

Why? If you have to go into a home through dementia what will Mr Corbyn allow you to retain? Nothing of your home isn't it?

 

[martcov]

It's got nothing to do with voting tory or which paper you read. The fact is Tony Blair's government with a controlling majority chose, that word again, chose to relax the constraints of the financial sector. It's was Blair's government that allowed the banking crisis in this country, those words again, this country. It was Blair's government who allowed self certification mortgages, allowing people to borrow five times their wages etc. etc. No one forced them to do these things, they did them willingly.

Yes there was a world financial crisis, yes we would still have taken a hit but the choices that Blair and Brown made exacerbated the problem by failing to safeguard the country from all of elements of the world banking crisis. The one specific that springs to mind was the toxic mortgage debt that UK banks were allowed to buy of the US financial markets whose mortgage arrangements were even more ridiculous than ours were allowed to become. Which was a big part in the collapse of our banking sector.

It doesn't how many times I vote labour, buy the Sun or whatever. It doesn't change the facts of what Blair's government chose to do and ultimately that failed the UK banking sector.

Quite frankly it's a lazy response to say I must be a Tory Sun purchaser as a justification for why this country was hit si hard.

Also, the tories haven't handed power over yet but even if they don't win the general election the fact is that the next labour government will be starting from a better position than the last labour government left it in.

No. It is not a fact. If May wins we have years of Brexit and trade negotiations with the rest of the world. Thousands of civil servants occupied with Brexit and the repurcussions. I would say that when labour take over after May's stint - assuming she wins - Britain will be in a total mess and labour will be starting from a worse position than they left.

 

[skybluetony176]

In one respect I actually agree with you and at least you acknowledge Corbyn is a liar regarding his desires on taxation. As you've been on a course in sure you are aware of the taxation systems in these countries.

Are you admitting Mr Corbyn will have to resort to the draconian and punitive systems these countries - especially Denmark - operate?

Just like saying this works in Denmark so it will work here isn't as simple as that with taxes either. If you know Scandinavians you'll know that to the majority of them value for money is important. They don't mind paying more as long as its value for money. The same is true of taxes in my experience. You take their national health service for instance. I know a Danish lady of retirement age whose just received an eyelift on their national health as a preventative medicine. Basically it can stop a lot of age related eye conditions in a certain percentage of people so they do it routinely at a certain age rather than wait to see who needs it. That's a value for money you'd never get on the UK NHS regardless of what the tax rates were.

Just to add. Denmark doesn't have ALL the stealth taxes we have. They have VAT on certain items, pay income tax like us but that's pretty much it. It's a lot simpler tax system than ours and the side effect of that is it's paid up front. In reality we get taxed on a lot more things in a lot more ways so if you're a heavy drinker, heavy smoker and driving a big commute every day in the UK it's not beyond the realms of possibilities that you could be paying a larger percentage of tax from your earnings than a clean living Dane who cycles to work every day. So to call it draconian and punitive could simply be a misunderstanding of facts.

 

[skybluetony176]

No. It is not a fact. If May wins we have years of Brexit and trade negotiations with the rest of the world. Thousands of civil servants occupied with Brexit and the repurcussions. I would say that when labour take over after May's stint - assuming she wins - Britain will be in a total mess and labour will be starting from a worse position than they left.

I can't disagree or agree with you on that one because I openly admit I have no idea what the state of the country will be at the end of the next term. I can only go with my gut feeling and my gut feeling is that regardless of what state the country will be in at the end of the next term, good or bad it would inevitably be worse if it's the end of a labour term than it would be at the end of a tory term.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Just like saying this works in Denmark so it will work here isn't as simple as that with taxes either. If you know Scandinavians you'll know that to the majority of them value for money is important. They don't mind paying more as long as its value for money. The same is true of taxes in my experience. You take their national health service for instance. I know a Danish lady of retirement age whose just received an eyelift on their national health as a preventative medicine. Basically it can stop a lot of age related eye conditions in a certain percentage of people so they do it routinely at a certain age rather than wait to see who needs it. That's a value for money you'd never get on the UK NHS regardless of what the tax rates were.

The UK NHS is one of the most efficient health services in Europe. The government spends less as a % of GDP on it than the most of Europe. You need to reconsider what you mean by value for money.

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[clint van damme]

In one respect I actually agree with you and at least you acknowledge Corbyn is a liar regarding his desires on taxation. As you've been on a course in sure you are aware of the taxation systems in these countries.

Are you admitting Mr Corbyn will have to resort to the draconian and punitive systems these countries - especially Denmark - operate?

we currently have tho lowest corporation tax of all the major developed nations. Corbyns proposed rise will still see it lower than USA,France and Germany.

The latter have economies that are currently performing far better than ours.

 

[skybluetony176]

The UK NHS is one of the most efficient health services in Europe. The government spends less as a % of GDP on it than the most of Europe. You need to reconsider what you mean by value for money.

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I really don't. I think you do though. The Danes may well be spending more of their GDP on health than us although to be honest I don't really know either way but the value for money is not a % of GDP it's the quality of care. In the form of shorter waiting lists, most hospitals operate private rooms not wards, the preventative medicine as in the example I've already given rather than waiting to see who suffers they take measures to make sure people don't get to that point, you don't get the waiting on trollies in corridors scandals we get here and you don't hear of nurse's relying on food banks to live. The NHS is just one example, the schools are better, you get a university grant you don't have to loan your way through university, the countries infrastructure is better and I could go on and on.

As I've said in my previous posts, a lot of this is to do with the population size of the country but a lot of it is to do with being heavily taxed at source.

The point I was making that the Danish mentality is that is OK so long as the system works for them giving them value for money. That is the Danish mentality. It works for them because of that. We on the other hand have a different mentality so when you get one person saying this is how they do it in Denmark why won't it work here and another person saying that they have a draconian tax system they have both failed to understand the full situation in Denmark. Ones took all the positives without understanding the negatives and the other has taken the negatives without understanding the positives. It's not as black and white as either poster is trying to make out.

The Danish way could work here. Not easily because of our demographics in comparison to Denmark's but the biggest hurdle I suspect would be our attitude compared to the Danes when it comes to paying taxes.