Skybluefaz
Well-Known Member
What's been leaked? I love a leak.
Rumour: Hoffman and Elliot takeover negotiations (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Evo1883
- Start date
Skybluefaz
Well-Known Member
You wacky funster
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
That and whether this next JR has any traction. For those reasons I don not expect anything to happen till this time next season.
Astute
Well-Known Member
It all depends on if talks are actually happening. Then it is down to the unrealistic amount Joy is asking for and the under value they have offered. If there is an amount somewhere in the middle they can agree on there's a deal to be done. If not.......
People keep saying "if" - I thought Moz Baker confirmed on Friday that was reason Hoffman could not go on CWR?
It says "Chair" on SBT site
mark82
Super Moderator
Skyblueweeman
Well-Known Member
Yeah, maybe. I'd want a clean break from these parasites once and for all though. No attachment or any linger of SISU going forward is the ideal that we should be going for.
mark82
Super Moderator
Just had a look at the trust board. This isn't meant as a slight on anyone but they're not a particularly mixed demographic. Doesn't seem particularly representative of the fan base (again, not a slight on individuals, sure they are all very capable).
Astute
Well-Known Member
I don't know him. He hasn't told me. That is enough for me to say if.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
The presenter said that Hoffman had pulled out of being on the show as he was in process of corresponding with Seppala about trying to arrange a meeting and didn't want to say any more. Moz was asked what he knew and said he didn't know any more than that. I took that to mean that Moz had no more information, and that it was news to him that Hoffman was not going to be on the show. Hoffman had said he was trying to arrange a meeting not that there were talks so nothing has changed
I think people are putting 2 and 2 together and getting 5
I think people are putting 2 and 2 together and getting 5
Broken Hearted Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
I know it's just like some people putting 2 and 2 together and getting 60 million
covcity4life
Well-Known Member
sisu want 61m then
olderskyblue
Well-Known Member
I thought with accountancy, 2 + 2 = 4 + the time taken to calculate it at £??? per minute... (15 minute minimum..)
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
Skyblueweeman
Well-Known Member
I wonder if the email communication mentioned is actually with Sepalla or one of her cronies. Hopefully more to come out soon.
covcity4life
Well-Known Member
i have managed to get hold of the leaked email communications!
Delivery has failed to these recipients or distribution lists:
[email protected]
The recipient's e-mail address was not found in the recipient's e-mail system. Microsoft Exchange will not try to redeliver this message for you. Please check the e-mail address and try resending this message, or provide the following diagnostic text to your system administrator.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Hopefully it wouldn't be with Fisher. All we would get from him is that he would construct an email in two weeks.
I thought with accountancy, 2 + 2 = 4 + the time taken to calculate it at £??? per minute... (15 minute minimum..)
3 £??? a minute - am in the wrong job
olderskyblue
Well-Known Member
Depends which one of those is the decimal point....
Only work in round £'s these days
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Have they said what they might realistically sell at?
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Don't know how much you look at the crowd at City, but old white dudes is very much our demographic. It's also the demographic of the Trust from the meetings I remember.
They can only elect people who join and run to be fair to them.
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
But they could say anything. I would be very surprised if the investors didn't know anyway it's their money they have spunked.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
Seems to me CT claims that dialogue continues are a bit tenuous. The "dialogue" seems to be very one sided, with Seppala responding with a blunt not interested. Sending Seppala three bids rejected as unwelcome or insufficient and emails asking to meet that are refused is not really constructive or even first step dialogue between two parties is it?
Is she willing to sell at anything like what has been offered or at all? Not at the moment it would seem.
Is she willing to sell at anything like what has been offered or at all? Not at the moment it would seem.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
As for crystallising the losses - which losses?
The original investment, £28m, made by the 5 private equity funds would have to be valued each year for the annual investment report. So its down grading has to have been known for years, Its just a question of when the loss is physically taken. What we don't know is if the £28m is all or a small part of the whole fund (- in any case I would argue the £28m wasn't all in cash, nearer to £18m in my opinion actually invested) so the loss could have been cushioned by profits elsewhere. The £28m is stuck in SBS&L not Otium which could be a problem for the investors if CCFC sold but is it new losses and unknown? The liability/loss to investors is already gone in reality, their only hope of a return is the legal actions by SBS&L because anything CCFC is charged to ARVO.
There is a possibility to consider that the original investors were repaid a pittance in the £ some time ago and that the actual purchase price is very little for the newer current investors in SBS&L (ie most of this loss already crystallised years ago so is not currently a big problem for SISU now). It could have been as simple as moving investors to more profitable funds. Due to the lack of transparency only SISU know the loss to come from any sale of CCFC that will hit the shareholders in SBS&L. It could be nothing like the £28m that we expect
The ARVO investment in Otium would also be assessed annually, but is secured on any assets in CCFC and on paper at least earning an income (interest accrued but not paid out). It would therefore have a value because of the assets it is secured on. I suspect settling ARVO is the key to any deal, their liability stood at £8m capital plus £4m interest 31-05-2016 accounts. However the group financial statements disclose that the amount put in by ARVO is around £16m in total over the years since 2012. A settlement well above any offer so far is required by ARVO I would think.
Ryton can be used to negotiate in any settlement but if there is already a presale agreement or it can be moved to another company then its value in a 3rd party bid is not a lot as ARVO already control it. Seppala could (but hasn't said anything) simply say we will sell you all the football assets but Ryton not for sale - that would leave the cash required for a sale still the same, more than the 2.2m plus uncertain add ons
It may be that the particular investors involved see these figures as pocket money - we don't know. They took a chance and this didn't turn out well but other "bets" have. In which case crystallising losses is not a problem. That leaves sheer bloody mindedness and stubbornness as the reasons for no sale - far harder to deal with if no financial hurt occurring
If CCFC through managing the cash flows does not require further funding from SISU, requires only a non binding letter annually to auditors that the loans wont be withdrawn and the owners will continue to try to source funding then CCFC has been parked to survive on its own resources and it is no longer hurting the owners. There is no need as yet to sell, and certainly no need to sell at a low value. It is really only promotion to the Championship that would cause the owners problems in terms of having to finance larger expenditure.
The only pressure point looming would seem to be having a home ground in Coventry. BPA if it ever were to be brought to fruition wont happen before the end of the Ricoh term so it is either a rolling deal with Wasps or pointing a finger at Wasps/CCC saying CCFC were forced out (grounds for legal action?) so EFL will back any alternative. Of course if MR makes the team successful then there is an element of comfort there for the owners they can utilise in any negotiations and probably a harder job for the Hoffman consortium or others to buy in and a price increase in Seppala's eyes
I would suggest nothing is going to happen any time soon to change the owners
The original investment, £28m, made by the 5 private equity funds would have to be valued each year for the annual investment report. So its down grading has to have been known for years, Its just a question of when the loss is physically taken. What we don't know is if the £28m is all or a small part of the whole fund (- in any case I would argue the £28m wasn't all in cash, nearer to £18m in my opinion actually invested) so the loss could have been cushioned by profits elsewhere. The £28m is stuck in SBS&L not Otium which could be a problem for the investors if CCFC sold but is it new losses and unknown? The liability/loss to investors is already gone in reality, their only hope of a return is the legal actions by SBS&L because anything CCFC is charged to ARVO.
There is a possibility to consider that the original investors were repaid a pittance in the £ some time ago and that the actual purchase price is very little for the newer current investors in SBS&L (ie most of this loss already crystallised years ago so is not currently a big problem for SISU now). It could have been as simple as moving investors to more profitable funds. Due to the lack of transparency only SISU know the loss to come from any sale of CCFC that will hit the shareholders in SBS&L. It could be nothing like the £28m that we expect
The ARVO investment in Otium would also be assessed annually, but is secured on any assets in CCFC and on paper at least earning an income (interest accrued but not paid out). It would therefore have a value because of the assets it is secured on. I suspect settling ARVO is the key to any deal, their liability stood at £8m capital plus £4m interest 31-05-2016 accounts. However the group financial statements disclose that the amount put in by ARVO is around £16m in total over the years since 2012. A settlement well above any offer so far is required by ARVO I would think.
Ryton can be used to negotiate in any settlement but if there is already a presale agreement or it can be moved to another company then its value in a 3rd party bid is not a lot as ARVO already control it. Seppala could (but hasn't said anything) simply say we will sell you all the football assets but Ryton not for sale - that would leave the cash required for a sale still the same, more than the 2.2m plus uncertain add ons
It may be that the particular investors involved see these figures as pocket money - we don't know. They took a chance and this didn't turn out well but other "bets" have. In which case crystallising losses is not a problem. That leaves sheer bloody mindedness and stubbornness as the reasons for no sale - far harder to deal with if no financial hurt occurring
If CCFC through managing the cash flows does not require further funding from SISU, requires only a non binding letter annually to auditors that the loans wont be withdrawn and the owners will continue to try to source funding then CCFC has been parked to survive on its own resources and it is no longer hurting the owners. There is no need as yet to sell, and certainly no need to sell at a low value. It is really only promotion to the Championship that would cause the owners problems in terms of having to finance larger expenditure.
The only pressure point looming would seem to be having a home ground in Coventry. BPA if it ever were to be brought to fruition wont happen before the end of the Ricoh term so it is either a rolling deal with Wasps or pointing a finger at Wasps/CCC saying CCFC were forced out (grounds for legal action?) so EFL will back any alternative. Of course if MR makes the team successful then there is an element of comfort there for the owners they can utilise in any negotiations and probably a harder job for the Hoffman consortium or others to buy in and a price increase in Seppala's eyes
I would suggest nothing is going to happen any time soon to change the owners
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letsallsingtogether
Well-Known Member
Why is that then they are all normal fans?