General Election (1 Viewer)

D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
But they should (on all sides) also have the balls to say "I don't know" rather than guessing or allowing themselves to be made to look ridiculous. A bit of honesty in not knowing everything would actually make them appear more human, honest and trustworthy to most folk.
Agree.

But then again, Corbyn got slaughtered for actually having the temerity to look up the figures during his WOman's Hour interview.

Not saying he shouldn't have been criticised for that, btw, it's his one major false move in that it made him appear dithery and unsure. But... that's also the alternative!
 

rob9872

Well-Known Member
The scroungers and wasters as you put it are predominantly a product of Thatcherism, the Inner Cities
and suburban sink estates, mining communities, and smallish satellite towns built for proximity to large
Industrial cities. All these places only 30-35 years ago were thriving communities full of hard working
Proud families, they wouldn't earn a fortune but they would earn enough to keep their families and
Would socialise together in pubs, clubs and restaurants which in turn would fuel the economy.

These communities were betrayed and crushed, this resulted in the breakdown of the family unit and
Values, schools in such areas were chronicley under funded leading to hundreds of thousands of
Children leaving school without a basic education. For a community to truly work its people need to
Feel apart of something, what is a life if your life serves no purpose.

In truth the real Conservatives don't really believe that the likes of you and me should have a vote,
They tolerate it because they have to, but they control the media and press.

I know it could and would never happen, BUT if all media and press outlets were compelled to only
Report facts and truth, I genuinely believe the Tory party would struggle to finish 2nd in the GE.

The cause we can argue about all day and personally I think the mining industry would have died (it was the nasty way it was done and was personal between Thatcher and Scargill and the police). Plenty of historical mistakes made by Conservative and Labour governments when in power, but that doesn't address the problem. How do you create jobs and build up areas like some of those former hard working ones you mention, because all I see among the poverty and down-trodden area is crime, scroungers, wasters - people who would rather not work and are a scourge on society - those hard working folk are a generation or two behind and now I see no improvement likely for them regardless of who is in government, but hear them complaining and expecting that we, the genuine working class of this country, somehow owe them a living and pay for the mess to clear up behind them.
 

Brylowes

Well-Known Member
They should do it like Dragons' Den and let you call for your financial expert to come up in the lift and clarify things.
I'm sorry the lift is out of order, due to severe but necessary austerity measures introduced
By the Conservative party, we have been forced to terminate the contracts of the four blokes
That laboured on the rowing machine that powered the lift.;)
 

Brylowes

Well-Known Member
The cause we can argue about all day and personally I think the mining industry would have died (it was the nasty way it was done and was personal between Thatcher and Scargill and the police). Plenty of historical mistakes made by Conservative and Labour governments when in power, but that doesn't address the problem. How do you create jobs and build up areas like some of those former hard working ones you mention, because all I see among the poverty and down-trodden area is crime, scroungers, wasters - people who would rather not work and are a scourge on society - those hard working folk are a generation or two behind and now I see no improvement likely for them regardless of who is in government, but hear them complaining and expecting that we, the genuine working class of this country, somehow owe them a living and pay for the mess to clear up behind them.
Why do you think the mining industry would have died, we import it from a Russian billionaire
called Andrey Melnichenko, we pay him almost twice what it would cost us now if we were still
Digging our own, At least 20% of our electricity is produced with coal.

At the end of the day a large proportion of our population should be working, building things,
Manufacturing things, nothing that requires any real thought process just an honest day's
Work for an honest day's pay. Without it 'we'll people eventually give up 'try to live on their
Wits' and eventually become the people you describe.

There's only so many McDonalds and Tesco jobs to go round, they sacrificed the working
Class, in favour of financial services 'incentives for all" bring your money here, and when
Times were good they actively encouraged people onto benefits.
When the de-regulated banks fucked up and almost bought the country to It's knees, bail
Outs were available 'pitty they were never available to ailing industries.

And then the blame game begins, I know them people who's lives we've already ruined,
The workshy bunch of scroungers, they haven't much but they deserve nothing.
Yes we will take what little they have "we are all in it together" well yeah but I think the
Highest earners in the country deserve a 5% tax cut.

If as you say people aren't swayed by the press, and vote Tory after weighing up the options
And reading their manifesto. .... then I actually find that more disturbing.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
But then again, Corbyn got slaughtered for actually having the temerity to look up the figures during his WOman's Hour interview.
Was going to post the same. Personally I don't see why they need to know them off the top of their head but if Abbott or Corbyn not knowing them is a huge issue then it should be as big, if not bigger, issue when the chancellor and MPs from the current government don't know them.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Why do you think the mining industry would have died, we import it from a Russian billionaire
called Andrey Melnichenko, we pay him almost twice what it would cost us now if we were still
Digging our own, At least 20% of our electricity is produced with coal.

At the end of the day a large proportion of our population should be working, building things,
Manufacturing things, nothing that requires any real thought process just an honest day's
Work for an honest day's pay. Without it 'we'll people eventually give up 'try to live on their
Wits' and eventually become the people you describe.

There's only so many McDonalds and Tesco jobs to go round, they sacrificed the working
Class, in favour of financial services 'incentives for all" bring your money here, and when
Times were good they actively encouraged people onto benefits.
When the de-regulated banks fucked up and almost bought the country to It's knees, bail
Outs were available 'pitty they were never available to ailing industries.

And then the blame game begins, I know them people who's lives we've already ruined,
The workshy bunch of scroungers, they haven't much but they deserve nothing.
Yes we will take what little they have "we are all in it together" well yeah but I think the
Highest earners in the country deserve a 5% tax cut.

If as you say people aren't swayed by the press, and vote Tory after weighing up the options
And reading their manifesto. .... then I actually find that more disturbing.

I think you've spent too much time reading the Socialist Worker Gazzette.

I've never read such nonsense.
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
I have never, ever encountered anything like this.

Have had numerous Tory Party flyers through my letterbox, have now had two 'direct ' letters addressed to me from Teresa May and now the Conservative Party offices are ringing me up too asking me to vote for them.

All very desperate and the campaigning all seems very, very negative and all about why we shouldn't vote for Corbyn, rather than why we shoukd vote for May.

Wasn't going to vote Labour, but if anything this has swayed me into thinking to change my vote in that direction.

GR is my MP and I wm not at all a fan. Was going to vote Green or independent, but this very negative, desperate pleading is really peeing me off.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
I met him. He was campaigning outside Tesco at Jubilee Crescent. Seemed quite decent and I said I would consider him.

Hate having GR as my MP and I still can't quite work out why he is in the Labour Party as he seems at odds with what they stand for.
He's another one that shows how the system doesn't really work, as do you vote for him because you approve of the national manifesto, or vote for someone else who might actually give a damn about their constituents...
 

Brylowes

Well-Known Member
I have never, ever encountered anything like this.

Have had numerous Tory Party flyers through my letterbox, have now had two 'direct ' letters addressed to me from Teresa May and now the Conservative Party offices are ringing me up too asking me to vote for them.

All very desperate and the campaigning all seems very, very negative and all about why we shouldn't vote for Corbyn, rather than why we shoukd vote for May.

Wasn't going to vote Labour, but if anything this has swayed me into thinking to change my vote in that direction.

GR is my MP and I wm not at all a fan. Was going to vote Green or independent, but this very negative, desperate pleading is really peeing me off.
Do it Otis, you know it makes sense :emoji_relaxed:
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Never read it, there's no need, it's there for all to see 'you just have to open your eyes :emoji_nerd:

Eyes open?

It's more a case of having a memory

You state a press conspiracy even against Michael Foot.

Foot was an educated old Marxist well past his prime. His strings were being pulled by the grotesque union cabal led by Heffer and the former energy minister Wedgweood Benn.

Their ideology was to ally to a Marxist state fed by the Soviet Union. A lazy privilege demanding workforce is the legacy their previous administration left behind. Uncompetitive industries, spiralling inflation, strikes, public borrowing out of control.

Scargill wasn't interested in the miners. It was a last ditch attempt by a failed Marxist army to topple democracy.

Thatchers legacy is essentially that you are rewarded by your own effort and by enterprise. The 80's whatever faults there were were a lot better than a 79's governed by a world of strikes power cuts dead lying unburied in morgues.

Corbyn and his IRA henchman McDonald represent that past.

Corbyn wants the youth vote as they can't remember. He is the drug dealer selling a ticket of hope and ecstasy when all they get is pain and crushing disappointment.

Fortunately many can remember - back to the future - I don't think so
 

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
Surely even the most staunch Labour supporters among you must be concerned at the level of office Abbott could potentially hold after that car crash of an interview? Even if anyone can make a mistake with the numbers a few weeks back, this one is completely embarrassing and actually a bit scary.

My granddad voted Labour blindly his entire life as the party of the working man, in fact I'm sure he still would if he was alive today, regardless of what they said or did. Today they are not the party of the working man imo, but represent scroungers and wasters. The Conservatives may be deemed nasty, but there really is no credible alternative that I resonate with on policy or even on an individual likable basis. Blair apart, then New Labour (Tory light) was probably the best choice for me, but as a tax paying middle earning worker with a family, I feel compelled to vote Conservative again this time around.
Perspective...Diana Abbott would likely be the first victim in forming a cabinet. And she is only one individual in the shadow cabinet. I do however think that she is a major factor in many people's minds. Uninspiring, incoherent & even unfathomable at times...she is a liability.

At the same time in terms of 'strong & stable leadership' Jez has demonstrated it far greater than May. He has stood up to all the back-biters in his party, even welcoming a leadership challenge. He is strong principled, philosophical & I believe strong willed.

'What you win on the swings - you lose on the roundabouts' was a favourite saying of my dearly departed Dad regarding most things where a serious choice had to be made. Never so true as in this election!

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Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
Perspective...Diana Abbott would likely be the first victim in forming a cabinet. And she is only one individual in the shadow cabinet. I do however think that she is a major factor in many people's minds. Uninspiring, incoherent & even unfathomable at times...she is a liability.
Jezza said only 5 days ago she was his Home Secretary.
Jeremy Corbyn: Abbott, McDonnell and Thornberry to get top jobs if I become PM
"Jeremy Corbyn has indicated that leading frontbenchers John McDonnell, Emily Thornberry and Diane Abbott will all keep their jobs if he is elected Prime Minister next week."

Meanwhile... more evidence of her utter utter incompetence.. and incoherence
 

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
I have never, ever encountered anything like this.

Have had numerous Tory Party flyers through my letterbox, have now had two 'direct ' letters addressed to me from Teresa May and now the Conservative Party offices are ringing me up too asking me to vote for them.

All very desperate and the campaigning all seems very, very negative and all about why we shouldn't vote for Corbyn, rather than why we shoukd vote for May.

Wasn't going to vote Labour, but if anything this has swayed me into thinking to change my vote in that direction.

GR is my MP and I wm not at all a fan. Was going to vote Green or independent, but this very negative, desperate pleading is really peeing me off.
Same kind of arguments & approach that the 'Remain' campaign used. And they lost the vote. All things considered a negative fight meant they got a bloody nose...which I wonder whether that was engineered in some way. And now a Tory defeat is being scheduled so that Labour can shoulder all the blame for any shitty outcomes from Brexit, NHS & National security over the next Parliament at least - because they really don't know the answers themselves!

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SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
So you believe only those at the top should get the money and those they employ to make money for them should be so poorly paid they need benefits to survive?
Thatcher's legacy or not...the fact is 'inward investment' requires overseas money. They want a return. So businesses needed to increase profitability. They do that via cheaper labour costs...which they imported...they call it globalisation & social mobility. Trouble is that the appalling acts we have seen recently (& before that) are perhaps a function of globalisation itself.

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SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
Jezza said only 5 days ago she was his Home Secretary.
Jeremy Corbyn: Abbott, McDonnell and Thornberry to get top jobs if I become PM
"Jeremy Corbyn has indicated that leading frontbenchers John McDonnell, Emily Thornberry and Diane Abbott will all keep their jobs if he is elected Prime Minister next week."

Meanwhile... more evidence of her utter utter incompetence.. and incoherence

Well what else do you expect him to say ffs???

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Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
Picture taken 20 mins before Abbott was supposed to be on air this morning, not unwell, just pulled to save embarrassment.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
Jezza said only 5 days ago she was his Home Secretary.
Jeremy Corbyn: Abbott, McDonnell and Thornberry to get top jobs if I become PM
"Jeremy Corbyn has indicated that leading frontbenchers John McDonnell, Emily Thornberry and Diane Abbott will all keep their jobs if he is elected Prime Minister next week."

Meanwhile... more evidence of her utter utter incompetence.. and incoherence


haven't seen anyone on here sticking up for Abbott. For every bit of footage you put up of her making an arse of it I could put up one of Boris yet there are several on here who can't seem to acknowledge what a liability he is.
 

RegTheDonk

Well-Known Member
He's another one that shows how the system doesn't really work, as do you vote for him because you approve of the national manifesto, or vote for someone else who might actually give a damn about their constituents...
Yes this is a big dilemma - very unlikely to actually win and if by some miracle they did, who would they side with when it comes to parliamentary votes?

If he's passionate about the locality, and is a "champion", I'd rather he put his efforts into local elections.

In my area, we have a UKIP councillor. He's a top bloke, always gets back to you if you call - forever out and about in the community. In virtually every way he gets involved, hassling the old bill and the local council if you need something sorting out. He's now standing for MP and, though I'd actually give him a go because of his past actions, it would be a wasted vote. He'd have to get another 10K votes to have a snif at overturning the encumbant.

Interesting you said Tesco on Jubilee Crescent Otis, my folks live near there but out of habit would never change their traditional vote.
 

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
Eyes open?

It's more a case of having a memory

You state a press conspiracy even against Michael Foot.

Foot was an educated old Marxist well past his prime. His strings were being pulled by the grotesque union cabal led by Heffer and the former energy minister Wedgweood Benn.

Their ideology was to ally to a Marxist state fed by the Soviet Union. A lazy privilege demanding workforce is the legacy their previous administration left behind. Uncompetitive industries, spiralling inflation, strikes, public borrowing out of control.

Scargill wasn't interested in the miners. It was a last ditch attempt by a failed Marxist army to topple democracy.

Thatchers legacy is essentially that you are rewarded by your own effort and by enterprise. The 80's whatever faults there were were a lot better than a 79's governed by a world of strikes power cuts dead lying unburied in morgues.

Corbyn and his IRA henchman McDonald represent that past.

Corbyn wants the youth vote as they can't remember. He is the drug dealer selling a ticket of hope and ecstasy when all they get is pain and crushing disappointment.

Fortunately many can remember - back to the future - I don't think so
For the amount of shit you give young people for their ill thought out choices you don't half sound like an AS level politics student at best.
 

Brylowes

Well-Known Member
Eyes open?

It's more a case of having a memory

You state a press conspiracy even against Michael Foot.

Foot was an educated old Marxist well past his prime. His strings were being pulled by the grotesque union cabal led by Heffer and the former energy minister Wedgweood Benn.

Their ideology was to ally to a Marxist state fed by the Soviet Union. A lazy privilege demanding workforce is the legacy their previous administration left behind. Uncompetitive industries, spiralling inflation, strikes, public borrowing out of control.

Scargill wasn't interested in the miners. It was a last ditch attempt by a failed Marxist army to topple democracy.

Thatchers legacy is essentially that you are rewarded by your own effort and by enterprise. The 80's whatever faults there were were a lot better than a 79's governed by a world of strikes power cuts dead lying unburied in morgues.

Corbyn and his IRA henchman McDonald represent that past.

Corbyn wants the youth vote as they can't remember. He is the drug dealer selling a ticket of hope and ecstasy when all they get is pain and crushing disappointment.

Fortunately many can remember - back to the future - I don't think so
Anthony wedgewood Benn, a true parliamentarian a man who renounced his title and tirelessly
Campaigned to scrap the outdated gentlemens clud that is the house of lords.
Revered and respected on all sides of the house, constantly working for the working man 'and
Would often vote against his own party, if he felt it the right thing to do.

The winter of discontent was a result of the Labour Party capping wage increases at 5% that
Had been contractually agreed with trade unions, a failed ploy to curb spiralling inflation.

By the way when you say lazy privilege demanding workforce left over from their previous
Administration. Do you mean the administration that lasted 6 months, or the Conservative
Administration from the previous 4 years ?

The constant misrepresentation of Coryin as a terrorist sympathiser is a shameful example of
The media & press biased that you seem to think doesn't exist, come on Grendel 'you're an
Intelligent guy, you're not seriously saying it doesn't exist are you.;)

Thatcher took office in 79 and set about a course to break the working class, in 82 / 83the country
Was almost bankrupt after fighting a war 8000 miles away to protect a windswept rock.
At this point she received the biggest slice of luck afforded to any PM in history, the realisation of
North Sea oil & gas reserves, sweeping tax cuts all round and an increased majority at the ballot
Box. Privatisation quickly followed by the obligatory mass unemployment that goes with it, and the
Reason the only way the treasury now has to raise money is through tax, but they hide it.

The wealthy now pay less tax than ever, where as the low and middle income earners have never
Paid more, you may think it's fair.
 
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Brylowes

Well-Known Member
Picture taken 20 mins before Abbott was supposed to be on air this morning, not unwell, just pulled to save embarrassment.

Are there any pictures from last Tuesday night, maybe one of TM Relaxing in her dressing gown
with a mug of Horlicks, getting a foot massage from one of her A team, Boris perhaps.
Hopefully there was something interesting for her to watch on TV.;)
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
For the amount of shit you give young people for their ill thought out choices you don't half sound like an AS level politics student at best.

What an amazing thought out reply
 

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
Leadership.. fail.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
Thatcher's legacy or not...the fact is 'inward investment' requires overseas money. They want a return. So businesses needed to increase profitability. They do that via cheaper labour costs...which they imported...they call it globalisation & social mobility. Trouble is that the appalling acts we have seen recently (& before that) are perhaps a function of globalisation itself.

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Social mobility isn't travelling to work ffs haha

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SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
Anthony wedgewood Benn, a true parliamentarian a man who renounced his title and tirelessly
Campaigned to scrap the outdated gentlemens clud that is the house of lords.
Revered and respected on all sides of the house, constantly working for the working man 'and
Would often vote against his own party, if he felt it the right thing to do.
(AGREE...another strong principled, passionate believer & wanting to do good for everyone imo)

The winter of discontent was a result of the Labour Party capping wage increases at 5% that
Had been contractually agreed with trade unions, a failed ploy to curb spiralling inflation.

By the way when you say lazy privilege demanding workforce left over from their previous
Administration. Do you mean the administration that lasted 6 months, or the Conservative
Administration from the previous 4 years ?
(LAZY, PRIVILEGE DEMANDING WORKFORCE? Or are we on about the chattering classes that invest in businesses demanding massive returns to finance their privileged lifestyle?)

The constant misrepresentation of Coryin as a terrorist sympathiser is a shameful example of
The media & press biased that you seem to think doesn't exist, come on Grendel 'you're an
Intelligent guy, you're not seriously saying it doesn't exist are you.;)
(ALL of it stinks...he just has a more mature approach than the gung-ho Victorian & earlier one of marching in & shooting them!)

Thatcher took office in 79 and set about a course to break the working class, in 82 / 83the country
Was almost bankrupt after fighting a war 8000 miles away to protect a windswept rock.
At this point she received the biggest slice of luck afforded to any PM in history, the realisation of
North Sea oil & gas reserves, sweeping tax cuts all round and an increased majority at the ballot
Box. Privatisation quickly followed by the obligatory mass unemployment that goes with it, and the
Reason the only way the treasury has to raise money now is through tax, but they hide it.

The wealthy now pay less tax than ever, where as the low and middle income earners have never
Paid more, you may think it's fair.
(ONLY as a proportion of their income...because they have less disposable income but have to spend proportionally a huge amount more of their income. Any country where VAT is involved has the same outcome)

My comments in brackets

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Brylowes

Well-Known Member
My comments in brackets

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I get what you're saying on VAT, but even though our VAT is high by any standards
It is merely the tip of the iceberg, we are absolutely hammered with stealth taxes.
The party of low taxation,ha. The party that wants you to keep more of your hard earned money. LOL
They boast that they have taken more working people out of taxation altogether,
The reality is they don't earn enough to pay Tax in the first place, in fact they have to have
Their earnings topped up with benefits just to get them to a living wage, which it still isn't.
 

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