Court Match Thread (16 Viewers)

[Nick]

Postings from Telegraph: CCFC owners Sisu, Wasps and council in court over Ricoh - Live

What is the decision to be challenged?
Justice Singh has asked for an answer to the question “what is the decision to be challenged?”

Sisu QC says it relates to a report made by council finance officer Barry Hastie.

Mr Singh says the first thing the court needs to identify is what is being challenged, and that this wasn’t on the original claim form. He’s asking why the claim should be allowed to proceed on that basis.

The judge says: “I just want to understand what it is the court is being asked to review.”

We’re now sifting through paperwork submitted by Sisu. The judge is being shown the latest version of the claim form.

He says there’s reference to a decision of October 7 which has been crossed through and there are now two decisions being challenged.

The relevant details are on page 412…which gives you a clue to the paperwork involved here.

 

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[covcity4life]

looks like Mr Singh is Sikhing the truth!

 

[Super_Johnny_Gayle]

The judge is as confused at we all are.

 

[Astute]

Doesn't seem like Judge Singh is very impressed already. Seems like he isn't going to allow SISU to change what they allege as they go along.

 

[Nick]

Judge seeking clarification
It appears the decision to be challenged is the council cabinet’s recommendation to council.

Rhodri Thompson says it’s about the transfer of land undervalue.

The judge isn’t happy that it’s clear what decision is being challenged and seeks more clarification.

Sisu QC says Sisu is not challenging the share transfer in ACL from the council to Wasps.

He says this challenge is about the overall transaction.

The judge says he is not clear what the decision is to be reviewed by the court.

He asks if the extension of the Ricoh Arena lease from 45 years to 250 years is now all that’s being challenged.

Sisu QC says “the land transfer and extension of the lease is what we take exception to”.

Sisu QC says substance of case was no proper marketing or valuation by council
Sisu QC says the substance of the case was a transfer of land with no proper marketing or valuation by the council - a sale for approximately £20.1 million and includes a payment to Higgs and the taking on of a council loan.

He says it was then almost immediately valued at £48.5 million and that allowed Wasps to start a bond scheme and pay off the loan.

He say the result is an underpayment of £28 million - “less than half the value of the asset”.

Sisu QC says it’s up for the court to decide if there should be a review at permission stage as there is not yet much evidence to sift through.

The judge says that seems an odd approach. “Let’s look at it and see if something turns up.”

Mr Thompson disagrees.

 

[Super_Johnny_Gayle]

 

[Nick]

Did say they would play on the sudden change in pricing and use that

 

[Astute]

The CET site has come up with an ad for Anusol on the court proceedings page. How bloody apt.

 

[Nick]

Judge asks if the lease extension is the main issue Sisu QC has
Sisu QC references council officer Barry Hastie’s report over the sale of the council’s shares in Ricoh Arena firm ACL.

He references points in the report. The share sale of £2.77 million, Wasps being given the right to purchase Higgs shares after the football club was given the right to bid, Wasps purchasing the Higgs shares, and finally the extension of the lease for £1 million and a £1 million partial repayment of the loan to bring that down to £13 million.

The judge asks if the lease extension is the main issue Sisu QC has.

Mr Thompson says yes.

Judge says it looks like a £2 million payment for the extension of the lease, but asks if Mr Thompson’s argument is that you need to take into account the whole transaction.

Mr Thompson says yes. He says an analogy would be that you can’t avoid inheritance tax by selling half a car then the rest later.

 

[Super_Johnny_Gayle]

"Mr Thompson says yes. He says an analogy would be that you can’t avoid inheritance tax by selling half a car then the rest later."

Made me larf this!!

 

[Astute]

"Mr Thompson says yes. He says an analogy would be that you can’t avoid inheritance tax by selling half a car then the rest later."

Certainly a lot of anal things going on.

 

[Nick]

I can't personally see it going very far either.

 

[BigadamL]

hope its not the way simon is writing it but doesn't seem like the judge is very happy with how its being presented

 

[BigadamL]

I can't personally see it going very far either.

if they lose it will be highly likely they will appeal.

they must think they have something

 

[Astute]

I can't personally see it going very far either.

Same here. But can see an immediate return to court though.

 

[Nick]

Why does claim form need to be amended?
Judge is asking why the claim form needs to be amended today. He says he can see why some things have to be narrowed.

He says the other parties’ objections are that there appears to be an increase in the scope of the pleading several years later.

Sisu QC says the original application was based on press reports as the council would not provide requested information.

He’s referring to the early £1 million payment by Wasps in relation to the deal.

What's that mean? Trying to amend the claim form already?

 

[Nick]

hope its not the way simon is writing it but doesn't seem like the judge is very happy with how its being presented

I think in the past it has always come across like that, even when they have been granted things.

 

[Astute]

if they lose it will be highly likely they will appeal.

they must think they have something

Last chance saloon?

 

[Astute]

What's that mean? Trying to amend the claim form already?

The judge picked up on it straight away and sounds like he won't allow it.

 

[BigadamL]

Last chance saloon?

I thought they had been on that for the last 8 years

 

[hotrod]

if they lose it will be highly likely they will appeal.

they must think they have something

I think a Judge can refuse the right to appeal.

Regards.

 

[Sick Boy]

The CET site has come up with an ad for Anusol on the court proceedings page. How bloody apt.

It is likely a targeted ad.

 

[Super_Johnny_Gayle]

The all mighty one arriving at court today

 

[covmark]

It is likely a targeted ad.

Haha indeed. Those ads are usually based on search history

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[Nick]

Latest Sisu pleading
SIsu QC is now referring to their latest pleading.

He says the changes are based on the summary of the Strutt and Parker report which appeared in April 2015, FOI responses from the council in November 2015 and February 2017 and two reports from council officer Barrie Hastie and KPMG.

He says there were also the judgments of Court of Appeal and Supreme Court.

He says there was quite a lot of new stuff to take into account and the updated pleading aims to take these into account.

Sisu QC says he thought it would be helpful to bring the pleading up to date.

Ohhh FOI's!

 

[hotrod]

Photo of Joy on the CT blog,and she looks ill.

Regards.

 

[BigadamL]

View attachment 7739

The all mighty one arriving at court today

I hope that's a woman on the edge

 

[Super_Johnny_Gayle]

What's that mean? Trying to amend the claim form already?

Changing what they're pleading about?

 

[Super_Johnny_Gayle]

I hope that's a woman on the edge

She don't look good does she. Shame!

 

[Nick]

Just looks like she has shit hair rather than ill.

 

[DD_Daphne]

Just looks like she has shit hair rather than ill.

I'm surprised Gilbert doesn't like her when they have things in common

 

[rupert_bear]

I think a Judge can refuse the right to appeal.

Regards.

A judge can if he sees an appeal frivolous, then sisu could challenge that frivolous decision. To quote Bumble the Beagle, The law is an ass.

 

[Nick]

Sisu say main focus is on extension of lease and asset value
Sisu QC confirms the challenge is being made as a potential breach of the Government Grant Act and European State Aid.

Sisu QC clarifies the ACL share sale isn’t the element of the deal being challenged.

Main focus is on the extension of the lease and the value placed on the asset.

He says the substance of the issue is the land transfer and emphasises the need to update their claim is because of the new information which came to hand.

The judge says this isn’t adding to the grounds, he says the ground has always been state aid, “that it was done at a substantial undervalue without notification to the European Commission”.

Sisu QC is emphasising that you have to look at all the joined transactions to understand their challenge.

He says the transactions were structured deliberately to give Wasps control of the Ricoh Arena for more than 200 years.

 

[Super_Johnny_Gayle]

Just looks like she has shit hair rather than ill.

Sorry doctor nick

 

[Super_Johnny_Gayle]

"He (SISU QC) says the transactions were structured deliberately to give Wasps control of the Ricoh Arena for more than 200 years."