Did Sisu appeal? (11 Viewers)

[Grendel]

The point is that in the days when SISU's more sensible people were prepared to negotiate the Council were willing to give the football club the benefit of an extended lease for free, or as Les Reid would have probably reported it, 'a massively extended lease not offered to anyone else'. I bring it up in instances where you conveniently forget it, so yes, frequently.

When was this ever offered?

 

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[martcov]

You said you wished sisu were more like wasps so I took that to mean not caring where the team plays and not giving a jot about the fanbase.

Either you can't comprehend English or you are inventing alternative facts. Or both. I said I preferred Wasps strategy of increasing the value of the Ricoh and achieving sporting success to SISU's.

You had claimed that SISU's destructive agenda had merit.

It doesn't

 

[Astute]

Distress Acl? I think it was already distressed by the council's decision to only give a 50 year lease. I'm tired of saying it but the club propped up Acl. Without the extortionate rent Acl would have gone under a long time before any dispute started. Still #sisuout

The lease and conditions distressed our club. Saying that it was only a small percentage of what we were losing each year. The damage was caused by Richardson and the way he ran our club.

 

[Astute]

You said you wished sisu were more like wasps so I took that to mean not caring where the team plays and not giving a jot about the fanbase.

I wished SISU were more like Wasps. Willing to negotiate and then sticking to what was negotiated.

So how about admitting you was wrong for the first time in your life?

 

[Astute]

When was this ever offered?

Negotiations?

Several times. In the end SISU were warned that someone else was interested. You called the arena a white elephant and said nobody else would be interested. Is that why you try to change the history of what happened?

 

[skybluetony176]

Either you can't comprehend English or you are inventing alternative facts. Or both. I said I preferred Wasps strategy of increasing the value of the Ricoh and achieving sporting success to SISU's.

You had claimed that SISU's destructive agenda had merit.

It doesn't

He just likes to pretend to be stupid because he thinks it makes him look clever. When the reality is it actually just confirms it's not an act. He is stupid.

 

[skybluetony176]

When was this ever offered?

You've already confirmed it was offered on the previous page when you said "I thought the 125 lease discussion was first as I thought that the offer for that was made when the club were still at the Ricoh".

If you are going to make things up as you go along, which you regularly do, it helps to have a good memory. Otherwise you just end up contradicting yourself. Which you regularly do.

 

[Rusty Trombone]

When was this ever offered?

I assume you mean the massively extended lease that at the time was not offered to anyone else, it was negotiated by all parties from about Oct 2011 and agreed in principle by all parties by July 2012.

 

[Grendel]

Either you can't comprehend English or you are inventing alternative facts. Or both. I said I preferred Wasps strategy of increasing the value of the Ricoh and achieving sporting success to SISU's.

You had claimed that SISU's destructive agenda had merit.

It doesn't

Their strategy involved buying a distressed business and moving one sports club from its base and trying to invent two others (one is done) to create three franchises.

So if sisu had say bought nene park and made a successful profitable franchise out of the club you'd support it right?

 

[Grendel]

I assume you mean the massively extended lease that at the time was not offered to anyone else, it was negotiated by all parties from about Oct 2011 and agreed in principle by all parties by July 2012.

But was that just for the Higgs share and it faltered on the funding arrangements didn't it? Also it involved buying the loan from Yorkshire bank if I recall correctly?

 

[Astute]

But was that just for the Higgs share and it faltered on the funding arrangements didn't it? Also it involved buying the loan from Yorkshire bank if I recall correctly?

Why did they agree to it if they couldn't or wouldn't pay for it then?

 

[Grendel]

Why did they agree to it if they couldn't or wouldn't pay for it then?

I thought this was the bid that according to the council guy "was significantly above market value"'but rejected by Higgs.

 

[skybluetony176]

But was that just for the Higgs share and it faltered on the funding arrangements didn't it? Also it involved buying the loan from Yorkshire bank if I recall correctly?

Again you're confirming that it was offered. How long will it be before you again claim an extended lease was never offered. Page 11 I reckon.

 

[Astute]

I thought this was the bid that according to the council guy "was significantly above market value"'but rejected by Higgs.

No it wasn't. Iy was accepted by all sides in principle. But as you said yourself no proof of funds was then put forward by SISU. It was just before they took us to Northampton IIRC.

 

[skybluetony176]

No it wasn't. Iy was accepted by all sides in principle. But as you said yourself no proof of funds was then put forward by SISU. It was just before they took us to Northampton IIRC.

Yep. It was all covered in the Higgs vs SISU court case IIRC. The deal was agreed in principle, SISU changed their minds and came back with a charitable offer but never moved forward with proof of funds and Higgs never chased them. So the case ended in a draw as the judge summed neither party had an appetite to continue therefore all parties were liable for their own costs.

 

[Rusty Trombone]

But was that just for the Higgs share and it faltered on the funding arrangements didn't it? Also it involved buying the loan from Yorkshire bank if I recall correctly?

The lease would be extended for ACL, the same that has happened now, and the club would have owned half of ACL. The point being everyone involved with the club have known for many years that a lease extension was available, and they knew they didn't have to pay the formula price. These were the two things I came into the thread to help you out with, but now it appears you could recall it all anyway. Such a tease.

 

[Grendel]

The lease would be extended for ACL, the same that has happened now, and the club would have owned half of ACL. The point being everyone involved with the club have known for many years that a lease extension was available, and they knew they didn't have to pay the formula price. These were the two things I came into the thread to help you out with, but now it appears you could recall it all anyway. Such a tease.

But it was only made available on a deal that still left the council in overall control and paying twice the amount to Higgs for their share.

Discussed here

Council admits Ricoh Arena was not sustainable without CCFC

 

[skybluetony176]

The lease would be extended for ACL, the same that has happened now, and the club would have owned half of ACL. The point being everyone involved with the club have known for many years that a lease extension was available, and they knew they didn't have to pay the formula price. These were the two things I came into the thread to help you out with, but now it appears you could recall it all anyway. Such a cock.

Corrected that for you

 

[skybluetony176]

But it was only made available on a deal that still left the council in overall control and paying twice the amount to Higgs for their share.

Discussed here

Council admits Ricoh Arena was not sustainable without CCFC

I don't think anyone's disputing the details that you've all of a sudden remembered. The only thing that was being disputed was you trying to claim it never happened at all by playing let's pretend.

 

[Grendel]

The point of discussion here was the strong suggestion that the council had for months prior to this been negotiating with Richardson to buy the arena even before his purchase of wasps to use as a vehicle for his project.

 

[Rusty Trombone]

But it was only made available on a deal that still left the council in overall control and paying twice the amount to Higgs for their share.

Discussed here

Council admits Ricoh Arena was not sustainable without CCFC

How would the Council be in overall control?
Twice the amount of what, a figure years later?
With the benefit of hindsight I believe the deal that was on the table, even for £5.5m would have been better for SISU, CCFC and Higgs than where we are now. I guess you think we're better off now.

 

[skybluetony176]

The point of discussion here was the strong suggestion that the council had for months prior to this been negotiating with Richardson to buy the arena even before his purchase of wasps to use as a vehicle for his project.

Fucking hell. And now you want to go off in another direction making out we were discussing something else completely different. Why can't you just admit when you're wrong?

 

[Grendel]

How would the Council be in overall control?
Twice the amount of what, a figure years later?
With the benefit of hindsight I believe the deal that was on the table, even for £5.5m would have been better for SISU, CCFC and Higgs than where we are now. I guess you think we're better off now.

It was rejected as Higgs didn't like the payment terms - I say overall control as the independent on the board would side with the council.

As an aside its a shame Lord Summerisle no longer posts on here. He had facts and discussions on this topic in significant detail.

 

[Rusty Trombone]

It was rejected as Higgs didn't like the payment terms - I say overall control as the independent on the board would side with the council.

As an aside its a shame Lord Summerisle no longer posts on here. He had facts and discussions on this topic in significant detail.

Oh of course, you're guessing, fair enough. I've given you facts, you don't like them.

 

[Grendel]

Oh of course, you're guessing, fair enough. I've given you facts, you don't like them.

The only facts are as I outlined. The crucial point being the council share was not for sale. It is also a fact that the independent on the board always voted for the council strategy.
I seem to recall at one point you tried to claim Higgs weren't junior partners and could influence the council due to their ownership of property in the City.
Higgs will always do what the council told them in that arrangement.

 

[martcov]

Their strategy involved buying a distressed business and moving one sports club from its base and trying to invent two others (one is done) to create three franchises.

So if sisu had say bought nene park and made a successful profitable franchise out of the club you'd support it right?

I mentioned preferring the Ricoh and sporting success for CCFC. You are now talking about Nene Park - which no one else is talking about. Wasps' Ricoh strategy has acheived for them, more than SISU's destructive strategy, has for us - so you believe SISU's strategy has merit.

I could ask why you think a strategy which has ultimately led to us being homeless in the near future and playing in League 2 has merit? You support this, right?

 

[Grendel]

I mentioned preferring the Ricoh and sporting success for CCFC. You are now talking about Nene Park - which no one else is talking about. Wasps' Ricoh strategy has acheived for them, more than SISU's destructive strategy, has for us - so you believe SISU's strategy has merit.

I could ask why you think a strategy which has ultimately led to us being homeless in the near future and playing in League 2 has merit? You support this, right?

I supported the breaking of the original lease.

You can't support wasps strategy, however, without also supporting a move from one city or area to another as a principal - so you have to support MK Dons departure from Wimbledon and you'd have to support any move we made if the owners could demonstrate financial and sporting success can be achieved.

 

[martcov]

I supported the breaking of the original lease.

You can't support wasps strategy, however, without also supporting a move from one city or area to another as a principal - so you have to support MK Dons departure from Wimbledon and you'd have to support any move we made if the owners could demonstrate financial and sporting success can be achieved.

Bollocks. You can support a strategy which is aimed at improving the value of the Ricoh ( partly through your presences ) after negotiating a deal for ownership or maybe part ownership of the stadium in a spirit of cooperation. You can support a strategy to acheive sporting success in Coventry for CCFC.

All this without supporting a move to Northampton or Nene Park or even moving away from the Ricoh ( the contrary to my position ) as Wimbledon did to Milton Keynes.

What is harder to understand is the claim that a strategy which has led to our present situation deserves merit.

Yes, they broke the lease, which was a necessity, but the way they did it with the threats of litigation, the bragging about battering people in court and the whole climate of confrontation and intimidation with the only people in a position to make a deal, led us into a disaster. The strategy was obviously the wrong one. Wasps sneaked in under the radar and set about creating a good relationship which has got them further.

Out of the two opposing strategies Wasps' has worked better. That is not "Wasps loving", but a brief summary of provable facts. We cannot of course, prove that SISU would have got further through cooperation or trying to gain support in the city of Coventry, but we can prove that Wasps did get further, and that we are in a worse position than they are. This points to SISU's strategy not deserving the merit that you so eagerly want to give it.

 

[Astute]

The only facts are as I outlined. The crucial point being the council share was not for sale. It is also a fact that the independent on the board always voted for the council strategy.
I seem to recall at one point you tried to claim Higgs weren't junior partners and could influence the council due to their ownership of property in the City.
Higgs will always do what the council told them in that arrangement.

Lucas said many times about having talks. SISU only wanted the freehold unencumbered. So how could they come to a deal if SISU wouldn't talk?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Ah, the same old same old, with the added bonus that the passing of time means everyone is slightly misremembering, and/or forgetting elements in entirity.

Great thread, something to look forward to for the coming season, for sure.