Pompey troubles (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter Skybluestu
- Start date
Skyblueweeman
Well-Known Member
Club shuts down. Finito. Adios. Sionara. (excuse the foreign mis-spelling) but you get my drift. They can literally go to the wall. The people who would lose out would be the creditors (HMRC etc), the fans (losing a club), the players (although they could all find other clubs), the staff (really, really feel for them...awful situation), club sponsors (lost revenue etc) and previous owners who are still owed money. As I understand it, a previous owner, Alexander Gaydamak owns the land that Fratton sits on. I think the club might also owe him about £20m I remember a friend saying, but if they do go to the wall, he can sell the land and re-coup that money.
No real winners.
Mary_Mungo_Midge
Well-Known Member
Well, read what the Tax Man says. Quite evident really. They've missed two £800K payments....
"Ensuring tax is paid on time should be at the centre of a football club's business strategy just as it should be for any other enterprise," said a HMRC spokesman.
"There is little HMRC can do for a business - be it a football club or not - whose viability is dependent on not paying the UK taxes to which they are liable. Any business that regards paying tax as an optional extra after other expenses are met, or that uses tax collected from employees or customers as working capital, is potentially heading for trouble."
"It is only fair to those clubs and to other taxpayers who do meet their obligations that HMRC enforces payment of tax debts owed - and if need be, issues a winding up petition or seeks to appoint an administrator."
"There is little HMRC can do for a business - be it a football club or not - whose viability is dependent either on not paying the UK taxes to which they are liable, or on special treatment not available to other customers with similar tax affairs."
"Ensuring tax is paid on time should be at the centre of a football club's business strategy just as it should be for any other enterprise," said a HMRC spokesman.
"There is little HMRC can do for a business - be it a football club or not - whose viability is dependent on not paying the UK taxes to which they are liable. Any business that regards paying tax as an optional extra after other expenses are met, or that uses tax collected from employees or customers as working capital, is potentially heading for trouble."
"It is only fair to those clubs and to other taxpayers who do meet their obligations that HMRC enforces payment of tax debts owed - and if need be, issues a winding up petition or seeks to appoint an administrator."
"There is little HMRC can do for a business - be it a football club or not - whose viability is dependent either on not paying the UK taxes to which they are liable, or on special treatment not available to other customers with similar tax affairs."
Skybluestu
New Member
if it's a choice between us or them who are you going to choose??????
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Don't relish it, but purposefully not paying your taxes to gain an advantage on the field is cheating, that's why there's a points deduction. It's not unsportsmanlike, or unfair, it's downright cheating.
I'd hate to see them go out of business, but they deserve to lose 10 points as that's probably what they've gained by illegally keeping hold of players they can't afford.
We could have not payed £1,6m to HMRC and kept hold of Marlon King. We'd probably be at least 10 points better off.
I'd hate to see them go out of business, but they deserve to lose 10 points as that's probably what they've gained by illegally keeping hold of players they can't afford.
We could have not payed £1,6m to HMRC and kept hold of Marlon King. We'd probably be at least 10 points better off.
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Skybluestu
New Member
Shmmeee that is a very good point. We might also of been able to keep Gunnarson. We would have a solid side but be just like Pompey...... Cheats. I agree with every word you wrote.
PhilWasn'tBabb
New Member
Whilst I feel for my friends who are Portsmouth fans. But there success has be bought with money they don't have, I don't think it would be an exaggeration to say that the teams weekly wage will be 3 times what we're paying our players. Is it fare that they paying "better" players that we can afford with money they don't have, should they be able to get away with that.
Football isn't just about the players on the pitch, you still have to have a viable business behind it, I know people in glass house and all that we're hardly in a position to comment. But to be fare to SISU they are trying to put our house in order, Sorry ...
Football isn't just about the players on the pitch, you still have to have a viable business behind it, I know people in glass house and all that we're hardly in a position to comment. But to be fare to SISU they are trying to put our house in order, Sorry ...
PhilWasn'tBabb
New Member
Goodman Shmmeee you bet me to it, agree with every word :claping hands:
Skybluestu
New Member
If they sell players I'd fancy our chances of catching them!!!! They only have 13 fit players according to BBC sport!!!!
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
They probably will, and that's why I'm not shedding any tears, but IMO the points should come off anyway. They've gained the advantage already by not having to sell players earlier to pay their bills.
Just grinds my gears to see us having to strip the team of any quality to keep the lights on and a team like this that's been run by crooks and will probably get away with it.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
13 fit senior players...the same amount we had in our squad on Saturday.
AFCCOVENTRY
Well-Known Member
At the end of the day it is a bit sad that we hope for a club to get a 10 point deduction so we can stay up.
End of the day we have been shit this year for the obvious reasons and currently deserve to go down.
End of the day we have been shit this year for the obvious reasons and currently deserve to go down.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Why? Why do we deserve to go down? We've played as well as teams in the top 6 at points this season, we've paid our bills as the rules state, so why do we deserve to go down and a club that has cheated you and me out of tax revenue so that they didn't have to go through what we did in the summer stay up?
Skybluestu
New Member
My apologies, but with our squad this season Im not sure what classes as a 'senior' player!!! My point being it would reduce them to at best 11 players. As we know they have refused bids for two players. It is now clear that these players need to be sold, however any future bids will I'm sure be for less than the original offers. Therefore I'm guessing at least 3 players will have to be sold.
Stevec189
New Member
What gets me is that players get paid regardless of what other creditors are owed including the taxman! Why should footballers be different from anyone else. Any other business HMRC would be paid first and everyone else would get a much reduced amount and the staff would all be laid off. They are not solvent and need to go into adminstration until new owners are found. It is as a taxpayer morally wrong. PUSB
keef
New Member
I wouldn't wish the complete demise of the club on its fans and i dont think they will disappear entirely.
We are really only seeing the start of the problem for many clubs. Look at how long it has taken CCFC to sort out its financial issues following relegation from the prem. This will only get worse for teams that fail to get back into the promised land. Most clubs are running at a loss and are mainly reliant on the good will of their owners who continue to prop the clubs up with interest free loans. Given the current economic climate how long can this continue?
I dread to think what the combined overall debt of UK football clubs is but it must be pretty horrific.
We are really only seeing the start of the problem for many clubs. Look at how long it has taken CCFC to sort out its financial issues following relegation from the prem. This will only get worse for teams that fail to get back into the promised land. Most clubs are running at a loss and are mainly reliant on the good will of their owners who continue to prop the clubs up with interest free loans. Given the current economic climate how long can this continue?
I dread to think what the combined overall debt of UK football clubs is but it must be pretty horrific.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Sorry, the point I was making is that they should already be where we are. I feel no sympathy for a team that has to rely on youth players while cheating, when ours is in the same situation.
If only we could turn down bids of £1.6m for a couple of players.
If they have to sell everyone down to the U12s to pay their bills then they should. We do.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
To be fair, despite Cameron's rhetoric, the kind of people who can afford to own football clubs aren't affected by the economic situation, they create it.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Call me an old cynic, but I wonder how many of these will still be poor in 5 or 10 years time.
Besides, the people we need to be hit by the economic crisis to stop football clubs going to the wall are the players, not the owners.
I'd have a £500k/year wage cap on the lot of them. They want more they can invest, do adverts, etc.
MusicDating
Euro 2016 Prediction League Champion!!
The legality of the 'football creditors rule' is currently being challenged by HMRC and I think clubs are assuming they'll win, hence the Financial Fair Play rules...
What makes Portsmouth a bit different this time is that HRMC are a little peed off are losing last time and also that the other main creditor, Chainrai (a property developer...), owning the ground, any potential buyer is up against even more than someone buying us!
Matt Slater's blogs on the bbc site cover Pompey/Admin quite well - http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/mattslater/2011/12/the_precarious_position_of_clu.html
Skybluestu
New Member
Crossed wires I think. That is exactly the way I feel. A good example is this. To carry on fairly we sell juke. To cut costs they give us Herman. They as a club are trying to look after number one..... Fairly or not.
BurbageSkyBlues
New Member
There are a lot of valid points being made. Above all, cheats should not prosper - but it doesn't excuse us, as fans, wanting to see other fans suffer the loss of their club, through bad management or whatever. We would not want to see the SkyBlues sink into oblivion, but we can be proud that we(well, the club) are, at least, trying to put our finances in order...so that we can live within our means. It is painful, so I feel sorry for the fans of Pompey.
There are plenty of clubs who have lived this way, Cardiff being another - and it seems that they have just gained further advantage tonight. Their gamble has payed off - but for how long?
I want us to stay up, I would take at Pompey's expense, of course, and if they are deducted points for evading taxes, that seems reasonable - but I would not rejoice. Now, if it happened to the pikey inbreds up the road, that would be different....
There are plenty of clubs who have lived this way, Cardiff being another - and it seems that they have just gained further advantage tonight. Their gamble has payed off - but for how long?
I want us to stay up, I would take at Pompey's expense, of course, and if they are deducted points for evading taxes, that seems reasonable - but I would not rejoice. Now, if it happened to the pikey inbreds up the road, that would be different....
keef
New Member
You're an old cynic
I agree with the wage cap, without it we will see this scenario over and over again.
The new financial fair play rules that are coming into affect for teams outside the Prem will help but will also mean its almost impossible to keep young upcoming talent. This is all very depressing its like an episode of eastenders
I agree with the wage cap, without it we will see this scenario over and over again.
The new financial fair play rules that are coming into affect for teams outside the Prem will help but will also mean its almost impossible to keep young upcoming talent. This is all very depressing its like an episode of eastenders
Mary_Mungo_Midge
Well-Known Member
Indeed. Cardiff's selective settling of whichever debt suits their fancy as been well reported previously:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/aug/17/cardiff-city-motherwell-craig-bellamy
It's simply cheating...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/aug/17/cardiff-city-motherwell-craig-bellamy
It's simply cheating...
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Well, they've made it to Wembley 4 times in 5 years, constantly been in the play-offs; who says cheats never prosper eh?
skybluearmy88
New Member
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/s...mouth-handed-winding-up-order-by-hmrc?cc=5739 doesn't look like they will be deducted points anytime soon. Read the bottom bit.
SkyBlue_Bear83
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't wish ill on any club just out of spite or for the sake of it but if it was the difference between us staying up and being relegated I would take it every time.
covcity4life
Well-Known Member
do i WANT pompey to go in liquadation? no
but a points deduction and relegation? well yes quite simply,i wont rejoice about it and i feel sorry for their fans but cov is my priority
anyone who says they would rather go down than stay up like this is not a real cov fan
p.s one thing ive never had a problem with sisu about is the lowering of the wage bill
but a points deduction and relegation? well yes quite simply,i wont rejoice about it and i feel sorry for their fans but cov is my priority
anyone who says they would rather go down than stay up like this is not a real cov fan
p.s one thing ive never had a problem with sisu about is the lowering of the wage bill
Houchens Head
Fairly well known member from Malvern
All those who don't give a toss about Pompey have got it wrong. I among others, would not wish ill on another team because it is the FANS who I feel sorry for - not the actual club. It would be nice to be rescued by another clubs demise, but I couldn't feel eccstatic about it. It's like finding a huge wad of money in the streets. You'd probably keep it but the person who lost it could have just lost their livelihood. It's about morals. Football is, after all, a game played out on a pitch between two teams. The "behind scenes" part is down to the scumbag owners etc. The fans are mostly in part, only interested in 22 guys slogging out a match.
You should come down here and hear some of the Southampton fans (most Islanders are Soton fans). They spout pure evil towards Pompey and are in Heaven at the moment relishing the thought at their demise!
You should come down here and hear some of the Southampton fans (most Islanders are Soton fans). They spout pure evil towards Pompey and are in Heaven at the moment relishing the thought at their demise!
Moff
Well-Known Member
If they have done wrong and get a points deduction, then fair enough they took the risk and failed, but I just cant bring myself to wish ill on another club, and most of all feel sorry for the fans, for as with our club, its the fans that suffer..not the owners.
The Portsmouth fans like us have done no wrong apart from loyally follow their club, and they dont deserve this again, as its not them who have tried to con the system, just corrupt owners, and that is very close to home for us.
Lets face it with SISU in charge who says it may not be us in the future so lets not wish ill on others, as to do so would put us on par with the unbelievable Sunderland scum that we were subjected to.
The Portsmouth fans like us have done no wrong apart from loyally follow their club, and they dont deserve this again, as its not them who have tried to con the system, just corrupt owners, and that is very close to home for us.
Lets face it with SISU in charge who says it may not be us in the future so lets not wish ill on others, as to do so would put us on par with the unbelievable Sunderland scum that we were subjected to.
Maybe the fans insisted that their owners kept 'investing' in the team and a better future.
Maybe the owners ran out of money and couldn't find buyers who would pick up the bill for the huge running costs.
Maybe they are just like us, only our owners decided to sell players to pay the creditors.
In that case, I think they should be relegated ahead of us.
Maybe the owners ran out of money and couldn't find buyers who would pick up the bill for the huge running costs.
Maybe they are just like us, only our owners decided to sell players to pay the creditors.
In that case, I think they should be relegated ahead of us.