Its like 2008 never happened.... (14 Viewers)

[Deleted member 5849]

For me it was over 30 years ago. And it certainly wasn't easy.

And your career is not the only one available.

I'm sure you have aptitudes I don't. And I'm sure I have aptitudes you don't

Is it fair to restrict people who have certain skills and merits, from maximising the use of those skills? Is it fair to push people who may not be suited to your career into it because they are not given the options of others? (and vice versa, for that matter!)

 

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[Deleted member 5849]

I've been lucky?

So working over 100 hours a week and moving away from everyone I know to improve what I had was lucky?

Yup, that you've been able to.

You're not the only one who's done 100+ hours a week and had to move away from everyone you know, you know.

 

[Nick]

It's defeatist.

Some careers have become harder to access by the eveybody person, and you're accepting that.

Because that's part of life, if my daughter wants to be a lawyer she will be at a major disadvantage to the kid of a millionaire lawyer.

No it isn't fair but I deal with it as best as I physically can. Blaming others won't change that, so I'll do my best to give here the best chance I can. I can't do more than that.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Because that's part of life

It's part of life that in the past decade or twenty years, some careers have become more restricted to posh upper-middle class people then they were?

It most certainly isn't.

 

[Nick]

It's part of life that in the past decade or twenty years, some careers have become more restricted to posh upper-middle class people then they were?

It most certainly isn't.

So what can I do if my daughter wants one of those careers? All I can do is try whatever I physically can to give her the best start towards that.

 

[clint van damme]

How many would get the bus now? They have to have a car that they can't afford.

but so many factories and work places were within the City- Masseys, Jag at Browns Lane, Peugeot, Alvis - how many are now?
A car is much more essential nowadays coupled with the fact that fuel and insurance costs have risen.

 

[Astute]

It's part of life that in the past decade or twenty years, some careers have become more restricted to posh upper-middle class people then they were?

It most certainly isn't.

What are they then?

Oh well. Time to go and do another 12 hour nightshift in the job I am lucky to have

 

[Astute]

but so many factories and work places were within the City- Masseys, Jag at Browns Lane, Peugeot, Alvis - how many are now?
A car is much more essential nowadays coupled with the fact that fuel and insurance costs have risen.

So what parts of Coventry can't you get to by bus?

I couldn't afford to pass my car test until I was 29. How did I cope?

 

[clint van damme]

So what parts of Coventry can't you get to by bus?

I couldn't afford to pass my car test until I was 29. How did I cope?

you can get a bus to anywhere in Coventry, but so much work is now outside of the city which is difficult to access by public transport.
I managed without a car until into my late 20s as well but I'd struggle without one now.

 

[Nick]

Car is one that can be changed easily, if for example you can't afford it or are struggling just get a £300 quid banger to get you from A to B.

It's quite sad that in my head I have a "what if" plan where if anything happened I know what will be cancelled / sold making outgoings go right down.

 

[clint van damme]

Car is one that can be changed easily, if for example you can't afford it or are struggling just get a £300 quid banger to get you from A to B.

It's quite sad that in my head I have a "what if" plan where if anything happened I know what will be cancelled / sold making outgoings go right down.

but a 300 quid banger still needs fuel and insurance, it's another expense that wasn't such a necessity when I was younger.

 

[Nick]

but a 300 quid banger still needs fuel and insurance, it's another expense that wasn't such a necessity when I was younger.

And if it's then still crippling just get a 50cc moped, bike or the bus or if you have a workmate who lives close by bung then some fuel money.

There are always round it. This is talking major desperation now though!

 

[Astute]

you can get a bus to anywhere in Coventry, but so much work is now outside of the city which is difficult to access by public transport.
I managed without a car until into my late 20s as well but I'd struggle without one now.

So do what I did and move to where the work is. It is 5 minutes for the wife and 10 minutes for me.

And if you work far away from where you live it doesn't take much of a move before the saving pays a decent amount of your mortgage or rent.

 

[Astute]

but a 300 quid banger still needs fuel and insurance, it's another expense that wasn't such a necessity when I was younger.

Get a classic car. The insurance is silly. 3 of my insurance policies are between £137 and £182. The other two are still less than £300. If they go wrong I chuck em away and buy cheap again. The problem is they don't go wrong.

 

[Marty]

Whats the average wage if you take out London

I am genuinely curious as London distorts everything

 

[Astute]

Yup, that you've been able to.

You're not the only one who's done 100+ hours a week and had to move away from everyone you know, you know.

So why does it make me lucky that I made so many sacrifices? I didn't want to make any of them.

 

[clint van damme]

And if it's then still crippling just get a 50cc moped, bike or the bus or if you have a workmate who lives close by bung then some fuel money.

There are always round it.

but there's not Nick - some people today are really up against it and the one size fits all solutions that you and Astute are giving don't work for everyone.

I would love to say we had it harder than the youngsters today and they don't know how lucky they are but I don't believe that.
I'm 50 and the generations before us and youngsters today had it much harder. Yes it could be tough at times and I've known what it was like to be skint, I'm talking couldn't afford to buy a newspaper in the morning but try living in even the most basic accommodation and running a banger on minimum wage nowadays is really a struggle for some people let alone trying to support a family.

 

[Nick]

but there's not Nick - some people today are really up against it and the one size fits all solutions that you and Astute are giving don't work for everyone.

I would love to say we had it harder than the youngsters today and they don't know how lucky they are but I don't believe that.
I'm 50 and the generations before us and youngsters today had it much harder. Yes it could be tough at times and I've known what it was like to be skint, I'm talking couldn't afford to buy a newspaper in the morning but try living in even the most basic accommodation and running a banger on minimum wage nowadays is really a struggle for some people let alone trying to support a family.

I know every situation is different but there will always be options and ways to make the best of it. Blaming everybody else and the government won't change that whether we like it or not

 

[Grendel]

Yes some people are stupid with credit and only have themselves to blame but the simple fact is that it's becoming more expensive to own a home.

Year - Average Wage - Average House Price - House Price as Multiple of Wage
1980 - £6,000 - £22,677 - 3.8
1990 - £13,364 - £59,587 - 4.5
2017 - £27,000 - £234,794 - 8.7

This doesn't factor in that the cost of living is much higher due to things like gas, electricity, transport having above inflation rises in cost.

Interest rates were much higher in those years so the cost of borrowing was far higher. Those taking out s mortgage in 1990 were more than likely also sold an endowment as the mortgage of the future and were left with a debt to fund at the end

Impossible to compare energy prices certainly in the 1980's as the industry was lost making nationalised institutions funded by a heavier income tax system.

Car prices relatively were I would guess far more expensive then and certainly the incredibly cheap lease arrangements were not available. Proportion of income now taken up by technologies is far higher.

One poster claims this to be a basic need. One suspects Maslow would disagree.

 

[clint van damme]

I know every situation is different but there will always be options and ways to make the best of it. Blaming everybody else and the government won't change that whether we like it or not

not everyone blames every one though. One of my pet hates is people who blame everyone else whenever things don't go their way so I know the sort of people you're talking about, I've met plenty of them and they come from all strands of society.
As for blaming the goverment, well that's legitimate as far as i'm concerned because they should be running the country to everyone's benefit not just the privileged few.

I see that 9 of the 10 of the most deprived areas in Western Europe are in the UK - wouldn't you say that was down the goverment whose policies are heavily weighted to benefit the few.

 

[clint van damme]

Interest rates were much higher in those years so the cost of borrowing was far higher. Those taking out s mortgage in 1990 were more than likely also sold an endowment as the mortgage of the future and were left with a debt to fund at the end

Impossible to compare energy prices certainly in the 1980's as the industry was lost making nationalised institutions funded by a heavier income tax system.

Car prices relatively were I would guess far more expensive then and certainly the incredibly cheap lease arrangements were not available. Proportion of income now taken up by technologies is far higher.

One poster claims this to be a basic need. One suspects Maslow would disagree.

we got caught out with an endowment, literally had to start again from scratch with a repayment. what a shit idea they were!

 

[Nick]

not everyone blames every one though. One of my pet hates is people who blame everyone else whenever things don't go their way so I know the sort of people you're talking about, I've met plenty of them and they come from all strands of society.
As for blaming the goverment, well that's legitimate as far as i'm concerned because they should be running the country to everyone's benefit not just the privileged few.

I see that 9 of the 10 of the most deprived areas in Western Europe are in the UK - wouldn't you say that was down the goverment whose policies are heavily weighted to benefit the few.

The thing is everybody who I know who has knuckled down and grafted has come out of the other side better off from it. Whether that's training as a trade or grafting at work and getting promotions and working their way up.

I agree that things could be changed but like you say, moaning and saying it isn't fair isn't really going to change that. Much better to try and change things for yourself than pin your hopes on an MP. Again, might sound defeatist etc but things are much more likely to change when people do it themselves.

I understand there will be circumstances where people physically can't though and things that change that (addictions, disabilities, family carers etc which change the situation)

 

[Grendel]

not everyone blames every one though. One of my pet hates is people who blame everyone else whenever things don't go their way so I know the sort of people you're talking about, I've met plenty of them and they come from all strands of society.
As for blaming the goverment, well that's legitimate as far as i'm concerned because they should be running the country to everyone's benefit not just the privileged few.

I see that 9 of the 10 of the most deprived areas in Western Europe are in the UK - wouldn't you say that was down the goverment whose policies are heavily weighted to benefit the few.

Western Europe? I assume you are referring to that nonsensical politically biased tripe 3 years ago that actually stated Northern Europe

 

[Astute]

but there's not Nick - some people today are really up against it and the one size fits all solutions that you and Astute are giving don't work for everyone.

I would love to say we had it harder than the youngsters today and they don't know how lucky they are but I don't believe that.
I'm 50 and the generations before us and youngsters today had it much harder. Yes it could be tough at times and I've known what it was like to be skint, I'm talking couldn't afford to buy a newspaper in the morning but try living in even the most basic accommodation and running a banger on minimum wage nowadays is really a struggle for some people let alone trying to support a family.

Who said it is easy running a car on minimum wage? As I said I could only afford to take my test at 29.

 

[wingy]

we got caught out with an endowment, literally had to start again from scratch with a repayment. what a shit idea they were!

Same.
Used the little it made to get out Negative equity.
Then when we did move estate agents were telling us it was worth £97K, but buyers valuations would only run to about £75K for mortgage purposes.

 

[clint van damme]

Western Europe? I assume you are referring to that nonsensical politically biased tripe 3 years ago that actually stated Northern Europe

you're right, Northern Europe, but from 6 months ago.
So you don't agree with it? You think there isn't a growing wealth gap in this country?

 

[Grendel]

you're right, Northern Europe, but from 6 months ago.
So you don't agree with it? You think there isn't a growing wealth gap in this country?

It includes non eu countries in Scandinavia and excludes Spain, Italy and Greece so yes I disagree totally with it.

There will always be wealth gaps in successful countries - it's capitalism. If you don't want a wealth gap for 99% of the population then there are plenty of wealth equal countries in Africa, South America and deepest darkest Europe.

 

[clint van damme]

Who said it is easy running a car on minimum wage? As I said I could only afford to take my test at 29.

It's not about ease, it's about necessity. You didn't take your test until 29, I passed mine in my early twenties but didn't have a car until I was about 28.

A lot of people can't get away with that now so a car is a necessary added expenditure for many.
With a two year exception I never worked more than 3 miles from my house until I hit my 40s. Again, that's just my experience but as I said earlier, a lot of big employers who were within the Citys boundaries have gone now.

 

[clint van damme]

It includes non eu countries in Scandinavia and excludes Spain, Italy and Greece so yes I disagree totally with it.

There will always be wealth gaps in successful countries - it's capitalism. If you don't want a wealth gap for 99% of the population then there are plenty of wealth equal countries in Africa, South America and deepest darkest Europe.

I agree there has to be a wealth gap, it's when it get's too big it's a problem. And when it get's too big it's no longer capitalism - we're moving into that territory.

 

[Astute]

not everyone blames every one though. One of my pet hates is people who blame everyone else whenever things don't go their way so I know the sort of people you're talking about, I've met plenty of them and they come from all strands of society.
As for blaming the goverment, well that's legitimate as far as i'm concerned because they should be running the country to everyone's benefit not just the privileged few.

I see that 9 of the 10 of the most deprived areas in Western Europe are in the UK - wouldn't you say that was down the goverment whose policies are heavily weighted to benefit the few.

But what were the 9 out of 10 scored on?

That was like the recent one where Coventry was below Kosovo for being dangerous. Was Coventry ranked the 5th most dangerous place to live? An absolute joke. There are more dangerous places to live just in the midlands. How about London?

 

[Astute]

It's not about ease, it's about necessity. You didn't take your test until 29, I passed mine in my early twenties but didn't have a car until I was about 28.

A lot of people can't get away with that now so a car is a necessary added expenditure for many.
With a two year exception I never worked more than 3 miles from my house until I hit my 40s. Again, that's just my experience but as I said earlier, a lot of big employers who were within the Citys boundaries have gone now.

At one stage I was using a pushbike over 20 miles each way. And then working a minimum 12 hours inbetween. That wasn't through ease. It certainly wasn't through choice. It was through necessity.

I know the big employers left. That is why I left.

 

[clint van damme]

But what were the 9 out of 10 scored on?

That was like the recent one where Coventry was below Kosovo for being dangerous. Was Coventry ranked the 5th most dangerous place to live? An absolute joke. There are more dangerous places to live just in the midlands. How about London?

there's plenty of evidence about the growing wealth gap in this country from far better sources than the CET. To be honest, if you walk round with your eyes open then you don't need to have it pointed out.

 

[Astute]

I agree there has to be a wealth gap, it's when it get's too big it's a problem. And when it get's too big it's no longer capitalism - we're moving into that territory.

The wage gap isn't a problem. It is how much those at the bottom of the pay scale get.

 

[clint van damme]

The wage gap isn't a problem. It is how much those at the bottom of the pay scale get.

or how little they can get for their money

 

[Grendel]

there's plenty of evidence about the growing wealth gap in this country from far better sources than the CET. To be honest, if you walk round with your eyes open then you don't need to have it pointed out.

But to be fair the "evidence" of the 9 out of 10 most deprived areas is nonsense is it not? It had an agenda and you fell for it.

What is the wealth gap in the UK compared to France, Italy and Spain.

Are there any stats?

I would suspect poor unemployed people are far better protected by this welfare state than the deprived wastelands of Southern Europe.