shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Save yourself the hassle mate, just post from your normal one.
Steps removed. SISU and CCFC. (15 Viewers)
- Thread starter Gosford Green
- Start date
Save yourself the hassle mate, just post from your normal one.
Please explain how that would alter our negotiating position. I don't think any of the parties are concerned whether the fans are annoyed.
SkyBlueZack
Well-Known Member
Because the other parties don't appear to like negative press as much as sisu. Remember when the higgs story broke? People were annoyed with wasps and they quickly spun it.
Yes, maybe. That won't stop us "being held to ransom" though. We left without taking into account the possible consequences. We are up sxxt creek without a paddle... being annoyed won't alter that.
oucho
Well-Known Member
Let's face it - SISU are the custodians of our club and given the state we're in now vs when they arrived, fans are going to be principally annoyed at them as our fate is mostly in their hands not in the hands of the council, Wasps etc (all of whom are less to blame than SISU, in any case).
And... if the council say we will not assist the club in any way over what we are obliged to do unless they ( or SISU if you prefer ) drop JR2, they will be applauded for it by the council tax payers. There will be no pressure to help CCFC from the council tax payers.
No... the council tax payers will applaud it - see my post.
oucho
Well-Known Member
Agree - and given that they're being forced to cut back services as a result of the general austerity agenda, that's quite right too. There are plenty of Cov fans who seem to think that it's up to the council to assist the club including some who think they should have provided the £30m Ricoh funding for noting in return (including letting us keep ownership of the ground).
Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
Errr not according to this it hasn't! Wasps won't take part in mediation over CCFC's future at Ricoh
Nick
Administrator
The tax payers stuff is a bit of a strange one, it's made out as if there will be families having their lives ruined by it. Having worked for a council and watching them pay 4 or 5 times the going rate for things day in, day out there are plenty of ways "tax payers money" is being pissed down the drain.
That's not saying it's OK, as when SISU lose then of course the judge should award costs to be paid back.
Again, "Ccfc fans" will applaud it as it will be "showing SISU".
That's not saying it's OK, as when SISU lose then of course the judge should award costs to be paid back.
Again, "Ccfc fans" will applaud it as it will be "showing SISU".
If I were a council tax payer, I would applaud measures taken to avoid further wastes of money. SISU made a bad purchase and it has cost them millions. Not the fault of the Coventry taxpayer. Any money the council has to pay in to fund SISU's mistakes comes from people who have worked for that money. I would support CCC's efforts to force Joy to drop JR2 - which would probably be better for Joy anyway ( based on her court failures so far ). For me, it wouldn't be to "show SISU", it would be to stop Joy getting money - however little - which I had worked for and had had to pay for council services.
Nick
Administrator
Would it come directly from tax payers?
Joy would only get money from it if she won, surely?
I'm not saying the council should donate millions to CCFC either...
Yes, she would. I don't think she will win, but it involves staff time and the possibilty that she wins holding back the council doing other things that they are supposed to be doing. I don't think they get the money back for their own time and trouble if Joy loses. Both sides lose by this continuing and it would be a travesty, if at the end, the working population of Coventry had to compensate a hedge fund's mistake - even if per capita it would not ruin families. CCFC would not win if Joy wins.
Nick
Administrator
In terms of people saying about being angry about multiple parties, it isn't just this one thing. There are plenty of things over the years rather than one isolated incident, even before SISU came in. In terms of CCFC being held hostage, have a look at how Dave worded it...
Understand the staff time, although why would tax payers be banging the drum because it is CCFC and not when the CEO of the council on 210k a year is working elsewhere 2 days of the week and the council has to pay a replacement to do his job and the numerous other ways the council is pissing money down the drain.
I think the court case is pointless, I don't think they will win, when they lose they should of course cover all costs of the "winning" parties.
If the unexpected happens and it ends up the working people of Coventry had to compensate SISU, the questions would surely be with the council as they would be in the wrong?
Yes, they would be in the wrong. Doesn't alter the fact that the whole dispute was started in attempt to recover some of the loss caused by a mistaken investment by SISU. The council would be questioned if they have made a mistake, but nobody would be applauding Joy. CCFC would still be in league 2 and the council tax payers would not be happy. Tax payers would be upset whether it was CCFC wasting money or other people wasting their money. I just hope Joy trades in her JR2 card against reopening negotiations on a sensible basis. A goodwill gesture to get all parties to the table.
ccfcway
Well-Known Member
You appear to have lumped everyone into the same pot here.
Fans have been held to ransom by the owners in terms of how they are running our club and as a result, we have lost thousands of fans.
Your concern is the few who may comment on something else they may do in the future ?
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Why have said that they have ended talks?
We still have the ball abd I am gobsmacked every Cov fan is not asking SISU to drop the legal action the judges are talking them to drop because that legal action is a really weak case that is causing us maximum damage.
Can I ask you Dave have you spoke to any
SISU or CCFC club official about the who CCFC Ricoh situation?
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Wouldn't it be nice if every Cov fan told SISU to shove their legal action where the sun doesn't shine. So something good can be negotiated for this club for once.
So far legal action has led to us moving to Northampton. Wasps moving in on our patch. Prevented us from having any hope of building a new stadium in Coventry.
It is about to cost us our academy home. Our tenure at the Ricoh.
It's preventing us from doing a ground share with CRFC.
To rub salt in the wounds SISU haven't even got a realistic chance of winning.
So all of the above for nothing.
Marvellous
Grendel
Well-Known Member
They have ended talks because the club under its current owners refuse to discuss anything other than a 2+2 year deal.
Wasps at present will not discuss anything other than a much longer commitment.
If you don't believe that go and ask Eastwood.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
I've no doubt they do but they key is what deal they want. For all we know they're saying £1m a year for 50 years with no break clause. Would be an absolute non starter.
Any deal has to have regular break clauses, say every 5 years, rent no higher than we pay now and fair access to revenues. Does anyone believe Wasps will offer something like that?
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
How is it going to cost the tax payer money? Presumably you are also up in arms at the Ricoh being sold at a loss by the council to Wasps and for them allowing the loan to be paid back early, a loan they had previously claimed was a great deal for the taxpayer due to the amount of interest it would generate.
That's before you even consider the financial benefit of having a football club playing in the city. Wasps, we are told, benefit the local economy enormously. If they do that on a total attendance of 234,360 last season then so must we with a total attendance of 209,725. Imagine how much a successful CCFC would generate, surely thats in the taxpayers interest?
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Go ahead and ask SISU all you like, it will do you zero good. We could have 0 people at a match and 10,000 marching to their offices and it would make no difference. But make sure you are asking SISU and not CCFC.
Personally I take issue with what is essentially blackmail to try and prevent scrutiny of a public body spending public funds. If you start dictating who can and can't challenge a local council its a slippery slope, who makes that decision?
Not spoken to SISU of CCFC, not really sure what benefit that would have as I have no specific questions for them. I have spoken to people at ACL who were there doing the period it was run by the council and Higgs and the sale to Wasps and the general opinion seems to be the club was royally stitched up and there was zero chance of us ever owning the Ricoh with or without SISU.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Assistance doesn't necessarily mean monetary. Anyone who seriously thinks the legal action is in anyway impacting on the day to day operation of a local council with £95m reserves is crazy.
The only possible way the council will have to make a substantial payout is if they are found to be in the wrong. That would mean the local council have undertaken a course of action they are not permitted to that has done severe damage to the football club. And even then it is more likely to be paid via insurance or central government.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
He says the position hasn't changed. Their position was that they were in talks with CCFC, talks that both sides described as positive. They then pulled out of talks citing the legal action SISU were taking.
Hobo
Well-Known Member
Well, well, well, a senior manager and negotiator. I don't believe you are that dumb Grendel. Don't try and make out others on here are dumb.
Apart from costs and benefits, the reality is that there will be no negotiations whilst JR2 is running,
Quite frankly, most people were glad that Wasps took the debt off the council's books. Most people are also happy that 2 professional sports are using the "white elephant" and that a commercial company is attracting events.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Utter bollocks as usual. Based on a survey of your own opinion.
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chiefdave
Well-Known Member
On what are you basing your assertion that most people are happy that Wasps purchased ACL at a loss to the taxpayer?
covmark
Well-Known Member
I've read plenty of shit on here. But this is right up there.
Who are these most people of which you speak? I presume you've done an extensive survey questioning Coventrians?
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The fact that no party is using it as a stick to beat other other political parties with. There's no mileage in it.
No. Have you seen anything to the contrary- apart from city fans ( and not all of them )?
covmark
Well-Known Member
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
As a Cov fan it is not good to have Wasps here. However you talk to joe bloggs out there about franchising in sport. They give you a blank look.
Unless you you are a Cov fan most of the people aren't fussed either way. Apart from those who go to watch Wasps. They are happy.
Cov rugby club seem to be getting stronger and stronger since Wasps have arrived. Not saying the two are linked just that Wasps hasn't destroyed CRFC like we thought they would.
It's horrible that as a Cov fan it's not us but Wasps in the hot seat.
However I don't think the council will be sitting there thinking that they made the wrong call.