Appeal granted (17 Viewers)

[Deleted member 5849]

It may be but you have to question the legal system as its being used not for justice but deliberately for the length of time in court

Yeah, I'd agree there's doubt as to the motives.

But then if there's no case whatsoever, a judge could have refused leave to appeal. So, given they think there is a basis, we may as well hear it.

 

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[Astute]

Think Fishers stance was that the loan made to ACL was crippling the company so presumably the same would apply to the Wasps bond.

Presumably now the loan from the council has been repaid if Wasps were to hit trouble and default on the bonds that would be their problem and nothing to do with any future owner of ACL.

The arena is held as security on the bond issue. Normally what would happen would be whatever is held as security would pass over to whoever holds what as security if repayments are not made. If this is the case the bond holders would then become the lease holders. The money owed would then not be owed. But it isn't always as simple as that.

 

[hopesprings]

Because like the others you will rock up for a bit, have digs and make targeted posts then vanish again.

As I say, it's quite obvious now.

You are deluded you make accusations as if they are backed up factually but then no facts come out. Pointless discussing anything with you so I will ot in future ..Happy?

 

[smileycov]

I spoke to someone yesterday that helped explain a few things. While they have a potential 30 mill compensation hanging around, that is the barometer for any bid. It doesn't matter what the realistic chances are, while it is there they won't budge with compo taking it into account. Once the last appeal fails then hopefully a more realistic offer will be accepted, if one comes. Just wondered why they wouldn't duck off tbf

 

[Astute]

Yeah, I'd agree there's doubt as to the motives.

But then if there's no case whatsoever, a judge could have refused leave to appeal. So, given they think there is a basis, we may as well hear it.

They have said that they have new evidence on the value of the arena when Wasps took over. They are trying to say that it was worth about 30m more than Wasps paid. And that is for a sporting arena that was unused and losing money. The same arena that they had said was worthless.

Of course they have the right to waste everyone's time and money. It doesn't make it right though. I just can't believe that a CCFC supporter would be happy for this legal crap to continue.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I just can't believe that CCFC supporters were happy with the confidentiality agreements between Richardson and Robinson / McGinnity...

Noody *wants* legal actions, but if a judge thinks they have a right to test it then, well... test it.

 

[skybluetony176]

I'm guessing here but I think ARVO is largely Joy Sepalla and her hubby who put money in to keep the other investors from pulling out and ruining her reputation.
She's now trying to turn a failed investment round (note I said investment not CCFC, doubt if she gives 2 hoots about the club all she wants is money).

I think OSB has pointed out before that she's signed stuff of on behalf of ARVO so she's definitely involved. Don't know what the structure is between SISU and ARVO other than ARVO seem to bankroll SISU's investments so you may well be on the right track.

Which failed investment are you thinking about?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Which failed investment are you thinking about?

Seriously?!?

 

[Captain Dart]

I think OSB has pointed out before that she's signed stuff of on behalf of ARVO so she's definitely involved. Don't know what the structure is between SISU and ARVO other than ARVO seem to bankroll SISU's investments so you may well be on the right track.

Which failed investment are you thinking about?

SISU's investment into CCFC of course.

 

[Captain Dart]

I spoke to someone yesterday that helped explain a few things. While they have a potential 30 mill compensation hanging around, that is the barometer for any bid. It doesn't matter what the realistic chances are, while it is there they won't budge with compo taking it into account. Once the last appeal fails then hopefully a more realistic offer will be accepted, if one comes. Just wondered why they wouldn't duck off tbf

Bid for what?

 

[skybluetony176]

SISU's investment into CCFC of course.

I thought you were saying a failed investment other than CCFC. My mistake.

 

[Broken Hearted Sky Blue]

Yeah, I'd agree there's doubt as to the motives.

But then if there's no case whatsoever, a judge could have refused leave to appeal. So, given they think there is a basis, we may as well hear it.

The legal system is to blame, its like two neighbours arguing about a hedge ending in huge legal costs because neither will back down. There has to be a point when a judge says enough is enough end it now.

 

[Grendel]

The arena is held as security on the bond issue. Normally what would happen would be whatever is held as security would pass over to whoever holds what as security if repayments are not made. If this is the case the bond holders would then become the lease holders. The money owed would then not be owed. But it isn't always as simple as that.

I thought that the lease defaulted back to its original term if wasps holdings went to administration - which would be the consequence of the bond failing.

There is no bond security due to this.

 

[CJ_covblaze]

Are you still with the Trust? What is their strategy? Have they planned for different possible scenario's?

Can't help but feel another move away from the Ricoh would be any thing other than a disaster in terms of crowds

Yes and we have various plans depending on what happens.

There does seem to be an increase in the thoughts of the need for unity between fans of different clubs. Going to a committee meeting about it tomorrow in Euston. It's pointless one set of fans doing it all alone without combining their efforts with others of a similar mindset. It's much bigger than the issues here, Hull, Chesterfield, Blackpool, etc. It's what's going on in English football in general that's more concerning.

 

[Astute]

I thought that the lease defaulted back to its original term if wasps holdings went to administration - which would be the consequence of the bond failing.

There is no bond security due to this.

Like I said it isn't simple. But I am like you for once. I am not an expert in this field. Neither are you. So neither of us knows what would happen for sure.

 

[Astute]

I just can't believe that CCFC supporters were happy with the confidentiality agreements between Richardson and Robinson / McGinnity...

Noody *wants* legal actions, but if a judge thinks they have a right to test it then, well... test it.

In JR1 they came out with their case. It got turned down. They said they had new evidence in the appeal. When the case came to court they had nothing.

In JR2 their case got turned down. They have said that they have evidence from experts that the arena was worth about 30m more than Wasps paid. So they are allowed an appeal.

Do you honestly think that they have the evidence? Or is it just another attempt of wasting more time and the chance of causing more trouble for someone CCFC needs to deal with to stop us from becoming homeless again. I know what my money would be on. The same as the vast majority of CCFC supporters.

 

[Generally Midfield]

Yes and we have various plans depending on what happens.

There does seem to be an increase in the thoughts of the need for unity between fans of different clubs. Going to a committee meeting about it tomorrow in Euston. It's pointless one set of fans doing it all alone without combining their efforts with others of a similar mindset. It's much bigger than the issues here, Hull, Chesterfield, Blackpool, etc. It's what's going on in English football in general that's more concerning.

Thanks - look forward to hearing more about the plans!

 

[Broken Hearted Sky Blue]

Yes and we have various plans depending on what happens.

There does seem to be an increase in the thoughts of the need for unity between fans of different clubs. Going to a committee meeting about it tomorrow in Euston. It's pointless one set of fans doing it all alone without combining their efforts with others of a similar mindset. It's much bigger than the issues here, Hull, Chesterfield, Blackpool, etc. It's what's going on in English football in general that's more concerning.

Give it up CJ it will do no good believe me

 

[Grendel]

Like I said it isn't simple. But I am like you for once. I am not an expert in this field. Neither are you. So neither of us knows what would happen for sure.

Well I know for a fact the bond isn't secured and the lease would revert back

 

[jjglory]

Well I know for a fact the bond isn't secured and the lease would revert back

Yes we know you know "everything"

 

[Grendel]

Yes we know you know "everything"

Well I know you aren't a CCFC fan.

 

[jjglory]

Well I know you aren't a CCFC fan.

No not keen on the Welsh either

 

[Nick]

:singing:It's all gone quiet over there, Oh it's all gone quiet over there:singing::eggonface::eggonface::eggonface::mooning::mooning::mooning:

I don't think I've seen you that excited about anything related to CCFC?

It's all well and good, but nobody disputes the ownership structure or the control side of things do they? It's the whole CCFC are SISU thing I dispute.

If CCFC are SISU, what baffles me is how people can go from going on about how they are the same thing to supporting CCFC thinking it is the same thing as SISU / Joy / Dermot. If Wasps bought CCFC tomorrow, it wouldn't suddenly become Wasps. If the council bought CCFC then it wouldn't suddenly become Coventry City Council.

Yes, the ownership structure would change but it wouldn't suddenly not be CCFC (unless the name changed etc).

The massive upsurge of pushing that is obvious of what it is trying to do. CCFC = SISU so we will all kick off at CCFC because Joy will be affected by it, it will really show them. It really is no co-incidence at all, the same as the other times things have started bubbling away.

If people want to start hammering CCFC thinking it's SISU and that it affects them then crack on. If it makes people feel better disrupting CCFC then good for them, the back pats and attention might be good for a few days but overall do nothing.

 

[Nick]

You are deluded you make accusations as if they are backed up factually but then no facts come out. Pointless discussing anything with you so I will ot in future ..Happy?

It's pointless because you will vanish again soon not to be seen until the next thing needs to be pushed or people need to be outraged. The same as jjglory, Sky blue john, Gosford etc.

 

[Nick]

I just can't believe that CCFC supporters were happy with the confidentiality agreements between Richardson and Robinson / McGinnity...

Noody *wants* legal actions, but if a judge thinks they have a right to test it then, well... test it.

How many attempts do they get? Surely there must be a point they get banned from courtrooms?

That's why the FL won't / can't do much while they are *Legally* entitled to be challenging in the courts etc. They can't tell them to drop it, as it will open up a massive can of worms.

 

[martcov]

I don't think I've seen you that excited about anything related to CCFC?

It's all well and good, but nobody disputes the ownership structure or the control side of things do they? It's the whole CCFC are SISU thing I dispute.

If CCFC are SISU, what baffles me is how people can go from going on about how they are the same thing to supporting CCFC thinking it is the same thing as SISU / Joy / Dermot. If Wasps bought CCFC tomorrow, it wouldn't suddenly become Wasps. If the council bought CCFC then it wouldn't suddenly become Coventry City Council.

Yes, the ownership structure would change but it wouldn't suddenly not be CCFC (unless the name changed etc).

The massive upsurge of pushing that is obvious of what it is trying to do. CCFC = SISU so we will all kick off at CCFC because Joy will be affected by it, it will really show them. It really is no co-incidence at all, the same as the other times things have started bubbling away.

If people want to start hammering CCFC thinking it's SISU and that it affects them then crack on. If it makes people feel better disrupting CCFC then good for them, the back pats and attention might be good for a few days but overall do nothing.

It is not hammering CCFC in most cases. Saying Joy has ultimate control and is acting in the interests of her investors as opposed to CCFC is not knocking CCFC.

I feel sorry for the club for being little more than a pawn in a bigger game.

It is a terrible situation. Yes, I agree that for the general day to day business of fielding a football team CCFC needs all the support it can get. Having said that, I hope that SISU lose the JR as there is no way that CCFC will get any of possible compensation claims that follow - that will go the investors who were "wronged".

 

[Nick]

It is not hammering CCFC in most cases. Saying Joy has ultimate control and is acting in the interests of her investors as opposed to CCFC is not knocking CCFC.

I feel sorry for the club for being little more than a pawn in a bigger game.

It is a terrible situation. Yes, I agree that for the general day to day business of fielding a football team CCFC needs all the support it can get. Having said that, I hope that SISU lose the JR as there is no way that CCFC will get any of possible compensation claims that follow - that will go the investors who were "wronged".

No of course just saying that isn't hammering ccfc. I meant more like action that affects games etc.

If sisu did somehow win, it would be great if the judge made it water tight it had to be all given to ccfc and stay there. (Insert dream here).

 

[Hobo]

How many attempts do they get? Surely there must be a point they get banned from courtrooms?

That's why the FL won't / can't do much while they are *Legally* entitled to be challenging in the courts etc. They can't tell them to drop it, as it will open up a massive can of worms.

No it depends what you present and whether it potentially changes the picture. Then you get a hearing.

 

[ccfcway]

It's pointless because you will vanish again soon not to be seen until the next thing needs to be pushed or people need to be outraged. The same as jjglory, Sky blue john, Gosford etc.

not sure why you get so annoyed about it.

Those left have seen us go from Prem to League Two. If they are still here after everything our club has gone through in the past 10 years, its reasonable to suggest those 3 posters aren't going to sway them / us into walking away.

 

[Grendel]

not sure why you get so annoyed about it.

Those left have seen us go from Prem to League Two. If they are still here after everything our club has gone through in the past 10 years, its reasonable to suggest those 3 posters aren't going to sway them / us into walking away.

Plenty of fans won't have seen us in the premier league.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Four posts on the "Bounce"... You've got it real bad.

Really got to you then.

 

[ccfcway]

Plenty of fans won't have seen us in the premier league.

in which case, I applaud them for sticking with us

They also know no better than us being crap and playing crap teams, so my point stands

 

[James Smith]

On a trip to Cov end of last year I think I had a taxi driver who was telling me why we were still in the court. Most of it sounded like the usual uninformed stuff you get from taxi drivers down south too. He did say one thing that stuck in my head though. He was confident that parts of the saga were allegedly being left out of the arguments Sisu were presenting to get the case to court. Then when it gets to court and "all" the facts come out they lose. I don't know if there's any truth in that but it would explain the performance of Sisu in court. I should point out that I am not implying that Sisu or their lawyers have done anything wrong. Except that we've been relegated twice moved to Northampton etc. under the ownership of SISU obviously.

 

[Hobo]

No of course just saying that isn't hammering ccfc. I meant more like action that affects games etc.

If sisu did somehow win, it would be great if the judge made it water tight it had to be all given to ccfc and stay there. (Insert dream here).

And that's why people get frustrated with you Nick you are in dream land. Yes legally Otium, SISU and Arvo are separate companies. This is to protect the owners SISU. So if one enterprise goes belly up you don't get a domino effect. However SISU is the controlling interest in all of them. Yes CCFC is a football club, run within a set budget...but the overriding control remains with SISU (and some fans find their methods and ethics unacceptable and don't want them aligned to their football club).

Some fans see a similar mirrored situation with Wasps but maybe not a 100 per cent identical.

Even if SISU win their court process it is highly unlikely a judge would say hand it all over to CCFC. SISU are driving a case to say certain companies have been damaged and should be compensated.

Think on this, CCFC being relegated from Championship to League 1 helped their case rents were too high at the Ricoh. Relegated from League 1 to League 2 could help their plea that they were financially damaged.

I think it is all pie in the sky. They are actually dragging everything out to see how Wasps prosper. Under the current model/structure CCFC have to be pretty self sufficient so SISU aren't digging into their pockets. So they have never intended to build a new stadium. Neither will SISU ever suddenly turn into our fairy godmother. Of course there are several villains in the piece, this is business not Hollywood or Roy of the Rovers.

 

[Nick]

And that's why people get frustrated with you Nick you are in dream land. Yes legally Otium, SISU and Arvo are separate companies. This is to protect the owners SISU. So if one enterprise goes belly up you don't get a domino effect. However SISU is the controlling interest in all of them. Yes CCFC is a football club, run within a set budget...but the overriding control remains with SISU (and some fans find their methods and ethics unacceptable and don't want them aligned to their football club).

Some fans see a similar mirrored situation with Wasps but maybe not a 100 per cent identical.

Even if SISU win their court process it is highly unlikely a judge would say hand it all over to CCFC. SISU are driving a case to say certain companies have been damaged and should be compensated.

Think on this, CCFC being relegated from Championship to League 1 helped their case rents were too high at the Ricoh. Relegated from League 1 to League 2 could help their plea that they were financially damaged.

I think it is all pie in the sky. They are actually dragging everything out to see how Wasps prosper. Under the current model/structure CCFC have to be pretty self sufficient so SISU aren't digging into their pockets. So they have never intended to build a new stadium. Neither will SISU ever suddenly turn into our fairy godmother. Of course there are several villains in the piece, this is business not Hollywood or Roy of the Rovers.

I know it's not going to be millions for ccfc, hence I cleared that up with a disclaimer!

That's why I said after all that it would be great if the judge somehow said all money should be for ccfc not them.. They would have to win first. I don't think that's even close to happening, never mind the judge bringing out a massive twist if they did.

Just to confirm, I know it's not going to happen...