Mark Sampson (18 Viewers)
- Thread starter chiefdave
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skybluegod
Well-Known Member
Why would they make it up? Clearly something has happened behind the scenes, everyone that has worked with Aluko says she is a brilliant professional, and she is the the highest scoring English player for women, yet can't get in the England team?
It's like Southgate not picking Kane?
Maybe it wasn't those exact words, but why would the FA, pay her £50,000 or whatever it was or there was nothing said? Clearly they wanted to shut her up.
Plus two players have made allegations?
It's like Southgate not picking Kane?
Maybe it wasn't those exact words, but why would the FA, pay her £50,000 or whatever it was or there was nothing said? Clearly they wanted to shut her up.
Plus two players have made allegations?
skybluegod
Well-Known Member
Well you could argue he has picked players loyal to him who know nothing about it?
Both players accusing him of racism, no longer part of the squad and haven't been since have they?
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Do you not think the whole thing is a bit odd? Its basically a claim of systematic bullying and racism throughout the England camp, its not just Sampson she's accused, yet the other players are sticking by the manager.
There's been two independent reviews, which she refused to cooperate with, which have found nothing wrong and one of the alleged incidents, which she wasn't even present at, was filmed and her claims don't match the events recorded.
And now she's started adding additional things in that weren't put in the original complaint.
It all just seems a bit off to me.
Gazolba
Well-Known Member
Same thing happened a few years ago with the US women's national team, a star striker Debbie Keller made a similar accusation against the coach.
Another player backed up her story and she won a small settlement. However, she never played for the US again, her career was over.
The coach has all the power and there are far more players wanting to be on the team than spots are available.
Another player backed up her story and she won a small settlement. However, she never played for the US again, her career was over.
The coach has all the power and there are far more players wanting to be on the team than spots are available.
Otis
Well-Known Member
I can't believe any of those players involved with the England camp know nothing about it. They all surely talk to each other don't they. Be very, very odd if they didn't.
From what I have seen in watching the England women's games, he seems to be on the whole picking pretty much the same players as previously.
Something not quite right somewhere.
skybluegod
Well-Known Member
Yes that's what I'm saying, he has favourites, so players aren't picked based on merit really. Which I think is bad for a a manager anyway
But in this instance, As I said, something definitely went down. I don't know if it is what Aluko has claimed but I have no doubt that there was something said which was probably taken the wrong way
skybluegod
Well-Known Member
As far as I'm aware I thought they hadn't done a second review? But I may be wrong haha!
They had talked to the second player but they are refusing to reopen the case?
It is all very odd, but then as I said why make it up? It's a pretty nasty claim if absolutely nothing happened?
And as I say, the pay off makes absolutely no sense if NOTHING happened, maybe it was a playful joke but I don't think it's right to simply write the claim off because the other players are supporting him.
It stinks to me that the FA paid her to keep quiet, in a case about racism, it's just another case of where the FA, aren't doing enough to combat things like this. Even if it's not true, you don't try and sweep it under the rug.
Otis
Well-Known Member
There IS something odd, but just seen the highlights and that is a clearly deliberate show of support for Sampson after that first goal.
Seems a clear statement of support.
I know a second player came out in support of Aluko, but then I heard one England player (long serving, can't remember her name) on the radio last week saying she didn't come across any bullying or inappropriateness at all under the current manager. That of course doesn't mean it didn't happen, but isn't Aluko alluding to a general atmosphere of bullying, inappropriateness and intimidation around the camp?
Needs a line drawing under it at some point. If there's new evidence it needs scrutinising.
Seems a clear statement of support.
I know a second player came out in support of Aluko, but then I heard one England player (long serving, can't remember her name) on the radio last week saying she didn't come across any bullying or inappropriateness at all under the current manager. That of course doesn't mean it didn't happen, but isn't Aluko alluding to a general atmosphere of bullying, inappropriateness and intimidation around the camp?
Needs a line drawing under it at some point. If there's new evidence it needs scrutinising.
skybluegod
Well-Known Member
What is odd is that in the previous investigations they didn't interview the key people? So I don't think it was done throughly in the first place and I have just found this on one of the BBC articles:
On Tuesday, Sampson appeared to contradict his own evidence on this issue after denying he had a conversation with Aluko about Ebola.
But in the independent investigation, he told barrister Katharine Newton that he had joked with Aluko about her being called Ebola instead of Eniola by a cold-caller.
This is what I mean, when I say something is not right. Yes Dave is right that Aluko has only just added evidence, but then Sampson has also changed his story?
Eni Aluko accuses England Women of 'selfish' attitude over Mark Sampson celebration
Clearly Aluko isn't happy.
And the last bit by another former England player, also makes the point, that it all lacks class, it is all them against us and it has cause a huge divide. The FA have brought this upon themselves by sweeping it under the rug, and handling the investigation so poorly last time.
And she is also right in saying that, these players can't risk talking out against the manager or their England career will be over.
Not only that but a lot of the players present, haven't categorically denied him saying it, they have just said they can't remember.
On Tuesday, Sampson appeared to contradict his own evidence on this issue after denying he had a conversation with Aluko about Ebola.
But in the independent investigation, he told barrister Katharine Newton that he had joked with Aluko about her being called Ebola instead of Eniola by a cold-caller.
This is what I mean, when I say something is not right. Yes Dave is right that Aluko has only just added evidence, but then Sampson has also changed his story?
Eni Aluko accuses England Women of 'selfish' attitude over Mark Sampson celebration
Clearly Aluko isn't happy.
And the last bit by another former England player, also makes the point, that it all lacks class, it is all them against us and it has cause a huge divide. The FA have brought this upon themselves by sweeping it under the rug, and handling the investigation so poorly last time.
And she is also right in saying that, these players can't risk talking out against the manager or their England career will be over.
Not only that but a lot of the players present, haven't categorically denied him saying it, they have just said they can't remember.
Otis
Well-Known Member
Big difference though between 'not risking taking it out against the manager' though and the whole team deliberatly running over to the dugout to hug the manager after a goal. That's where it all seems odd. It's not just official, by the book support, it is emotional, full blooded and deliberate support to show backing. Seems very personal, no by the numbers.
skybluegod
Well-Known Member
Well hopefully the case is reopened and the truth comes out. Either way I would like to know. But you have to admit the FA, hasn't helped the situation, with the pay off, the secret investigation and then not interviewing the key parties?
Terry Gibson's perm
Well-Known Member
Maybe he isn't picking her because she is awful I saw a game she played in and she kept falling over the ball and running out of play
Otis
Well-Known Member
Think you must have been round my house that night, cos I remember saying the exact same thing.
Terry Gibson's perm
Well-Known Member
I can't remember when it was so can't have been to memorable
Otis
Well-Known Member
A pink and blue one. Looks pretty memorable to me.
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
He's 'left his position' apparently.
Not sure what that means....
Not sure what that means....
Nick
Administrator
Mark Sampson set to leave as England women's manager
Apparently the racism was about Ebola from her relatives in Nigeria. She is also a lawyer...
Apparently the racism was about Ebola from her relatives in Nigeria. She is also a lawyer...
Terry Gibson's perm
Well-Known Member
What happens if the new manager doesn't pick her either?
Otis
Well-Known Member
There's gaps at the back for the opposition to exploit?
oucho
Well-Known Member
To me this doesn't seem a sackable/resignation level offence. If he has said this then it's worthy of a reprimand, but it seems OTT to see him out of a job.
I think it would be reasonable to have an approach of viewing such comments as Level 1, Level 2, Level 3 etc where:
Level 1 would be something like use of the N word, which if proven leads to immediate dismissal
Level 2 comments not quite as bad but clearly racist leading to a suspension
Level 3 probably on the lines of what Sampson is alleged to have said, shall we say dubious but not overtly racist, with the tariff being a fine + reprimand (if proven).
While we shouldn't tolerate racism of any kind I don't see why any such instance should be met with dismissal, rather than another form of punishment.
I think it would be reasonable to have an approach of viewing such comments as Level 1, Level 2, Level 3 etc where:
Level 1 would be something like use of the N word, which if proven leads to immediate dismissal
Level 2 comments not quite as bad but clearly racist leading to a suspension
Level 3 probably on the lines of what Sampson is alleged to have said, shall we say dubious but not overtly racist, with the tariff being a fine + reprimand (if proven).
While we shouldn't tolerate racism of any kind I don't see why any such instance should be met with dismissal, rather than another form of punishment.
Gazolba
Well-Known Member
The controversy isn't about whether she is being picked or not. It's about claims of racism and bullying.
When you hear about it occuring in English cricket and English cycling, why would anyone doubt it could occur in women's football?
skybluegod
Well-Known Member
Haha exactly
Well with him leaving it makes me think even more that there is something in this.
skybluegod
Well-Known Member
Well tbf, Sam Allardyce left over something even smaller, so if it is true then I don't think there is much choice but to leave, out of consistency.
skybluegod
Well-Known Member
Women's football as a whole is a lot lower standard. But Aluko is probably the best English striker there is, just look at her stats.
Terry Gibson's perm
Well-Known Member
The game I saw she was the weakest on the field by a mile to the point I thought she might have won a prize in a raffle to play
Terry Gibson's perm
Well-Known Member
Esoterica
Well-Known Member
Maybe that's where the whole misunderstanding happened about the Ebola comment. What he really said was 'make sure your family don't bring the Tombola.'
Terry Gibson's perm
Well-Known Member
Esoterica
Well-Known Member
Agree completely but I don't see how it's racist though. I got all kinds of mad cow disease stick when travelling abroad when that was going on but I didn't think it was any more than a joke about something that was going on where I was travelling from.
Terry Gibson's perm
Well-Known Member
Hard to say without sounding racist but some people seem more sensitive to things than others and most tend to be lawyers as well
skybluegod
Well-Known Member
It's the fact that he's implying cause their black they have Ebola?
Also the comment to other player where he asks how many times she has been to jail, stereotyping about all black people have been to jail type thing