Oh Jeremy Corbyn (15 Viewers)

[skybluegod]

What confuses me is why Labour are treating it like some huge victory? Okay yes the Tories lost their majority, but Labour still isn't in power? They have more seats, and sure May ended up with egg on her face, but Labour is acting like they have conquered the world.

 

---

[clint van damme]

I think he will become pm. He will achieve enough in 5 years for the Tories to return. What I'm looking forward to most of all is hearing how labour reinvent themselves, talk down the country and blame everything on the Tories next time. I think they will remain hard left now forever.

I don' think he will. I think the tories will make an arse of Brexit and a more centrist, pro European will take the reigns of Labour, probably someone like Lammy.

Why are you giving the tories a pass on a whole litany of unfulfilled election promises - do you not have a problem with that? (cue yeah but Jeremy Corbyn, yeah but Jeremy Corbyn response).

The Bombardier affair shows that the tories aren't quite the highly regarded international statesmen they believe they are and it doesn't bode well for the future.

 

[torchomatic]

Let me see 10 years ago, that was Blair wasn't it, no wait a minute G Brown. Labour were in power from 1997 to 2010, a lot of damage was done then.

A lot of damage has been done since 2010. Brexit for one. All because of the vanity of Cameron and the Tory party. Fuckwits.

 

[mrtrench]

Clint, no free ride for the Tories from me. Nor for the liberals. Nobody is perfect, there is no such thing as perfect. After all, it's by pointing out the blemishes and promising paradise that the miserablist Corbyn is gaining popularity.

However, as you point out, there are mistakes and imperfections and there are massive fuck ups. I'll take just normal imperfections please.

 

[Captain Dart]

What confuses me is why Labour are treating it like some huge victory? Okay yes the Tories lost their majority, but Labour still isn't in power? They have more seats, and sure May ended up with egg on her face, but Labour is acting like they have conquered the world.

Sky was speaking to people in Worthing, older wiser heads were saying no way would they vote Labour but the the young and naive all for the great give away, little realising that they'll have to pay heavily for it a decade down the line.

 

[rob9872]

A lot of damage has been done since 2010. Brexit for one. All because of the vanity of Cameron and the Tory party. Fuckwits.

How can you say that damage has been done by Brexit and blame the Conservatives? It was a manifesto pledge that had to be followed through or they would have been criticised for not delivering. Clearly it was wanted or they wouldn't have won that election nor the 17m that voted for it would have been given the opportunity, but as we have still not left yet and wont do for some time, to say that it's damaging is merely guessing. Let's wait and see what happens first.

 

[clint van damme]

How can you say that damage has been done by Brexit and blame the Conservatives? It was a manifesto pledge that had to be followed through or they would have been criticised for not delivering. Clearly it was wanted or they wouldn't have won that election nor the 17m that voted for it would have been given the opportunity, but as we have still not left yet and wont do for some time, to say that it's damaging is merely guessing. Let's wait and see what happens first.

about the only one they've delivered on since 2010.

 

[rob9872]

Garbage - have you read that manifesto? Some issues were held back by the coalition and plenty from the last one too has been implemented. Some things have not yet been possible, not in part due to World politics and the bigger than anticipated mess left to clear up from the previous administration.

 

[Ashdown]

but when the pound dropped to it's lowest level for 30 plus years recently we were told it wasn't a big deal!
And the key thing in that article, Labour preparing for all possible outcomes. That's quiee reassuring when you look at the total lack of preparation the tories have put in for brexit.

You sure about that, it went pretty damn low 2008/2009 against the Euro at least ?

 

[ccfctommy]

Weird that you haven't said any of this about the abuse that Abbot receives?

Thats a good point. LK is as Tory as they come but the fact that she requires a bodyguard is a worry. Has she actually been threatened?

 

[Ashdown]

Seems now that my generation is paying for your generation fucking the economy 10 years ago. So much for the unfettered free marketing of Thatcher and Blair.

Globalisation and unregulated banks fucked the economy up in reality. The Labour incumbents at the time just added to the disaster with negligent fiscal policy as usual.

 

[clint van damme]

You sure about that, it went pretty damn low 2008/2009 against the Euro at least ?

that was 8 years ago.
Definitely 30 for the dollar.
It may have taken a bigger dip against the dollar in 2008/2009 but it was touching 2 dollars in 2007 so was ridiculously high.

 

[clint van damme]

Garbage - have you read that manifesto? Some issues were held back by the coalition and plenty from the last one too has been implemented. Some things have not yet been possible, not in part due to World politics and the bigger than anticipated mess left to clear up from the previous administration.

if Labour get in how many years are you going to allow to use the excuse of the previous administration for?
If it wasn't possible to do stuff, I.e wipe out the deficit, they shouldn't have put it in their manifesto.

 

[skybluegod]

if Labour get in how many years are you going to allow to use the excuse of the previous administration for?
If it wasn't possible to do stuff, I.e wipe out the deficit, they shouldn't have put it in their manifesto.

Just like Corbyn shouldn’t be making a load of claims that he can’t keep, to get gullible young people to vote for him.

 

[clint van damme]

Just like Corbyn shouldn’t be making a load of claims that he can’t keep, to get gullible young people to vote for him.

you're assuming he can't keep them. It's fact that the tories have failed to clear the deficit in the time scale they stated.
Labour produced a costed manifesto, yes, some of those costs may have been disputable, the tories produced one that was totally uncosted, I can't believe people keep making excuses for them.

 

[ccfctommy]

Thought it was a good speech.

• Promise to close gender pay gap
• On the "threshold of power"
• Labour is government in waiting
• "Outstanding" Shadow Cab - even I'm not sure about that one
• Peace and justice at heart of foreign policy
• Build a new relationship with Europe
• Labour ready, Tories not, they're not strong or stable
• Tories hanging on by their fingertips
• Tories have tracked down the magic money tree
• Homelessness doubled under Tories
• 20K fewer police, 11K fewer fire fighters
• Condemned by United Nations over disability rights
• Asks Tories to end austerity, abolish tuition fees, scrap public sector pay cap (yeah!!)
• Labour election campaign "primed and ready to go"
• Tory election campaign "nasty and personal"
• Tory's are messing up Brexit. Our future is under threat
• Tory "trio" have got nowhere with negotiations
• Labour is the only party that can unite Brexiteers and Remainers
• Cliff edge Brexit will become real under Tories
• Britain's future at risk under Conservatives
• Labour will repair damage to economy, due to austerity
• Utilities back into public ownership - stop the public being ripped off
• Create a national savings bank
• Ask big business to pay more tax
• Labour launching a review of social housing policy
• Stop cuts to social security
• Free tuition. No one held back by costs
• Trump speech at UN "disturbing"
• 2017 - year when politics finally caught up with crash of 2008
• Labour is the political mainstream
• Labour manifesto and policies are popular as that what people want
• Labour is the champion of social justice

You've changed your tune!

 

[Captain Dart]

you're assuming he can't keep them. It's fact that the tories have failed to clear the deficit in the time scale they stated.
Labour produced a costed manifesto, yes, some of those costs may have been disputable, the tories produced one that was totally uncosted, I can't believe people keep making excuses for them.

Based on fallacious assumptions about tax yield.

 

[clint van damme]

Based on fallacious assumptions about tax yield.

you talking about tory predictions on clearing the deficit?

 

[wingy]

I dont know what level of coverage his speech got yesterday, but did find it curious that Newsnight chose last night to air a 35 minute special report on Grenfell, so relegating coverage to five minutes at the end of the show.

 

[mrtrench]

you're assuming he can't keep them.

As he has pledged that all economic consequences of doing them are now illegal, it will all be brilliant.

 

[Captain Dart]

you talking about tory predictions on clearing the deficit?

No you cheeky monkey, Mr John McDonnells unrealistic view on the corporate response to higher taxes. It's a dynamic system & predictions like he's ,made based on a steady state are wholly inadequate. The only way to change things safely is gradually, this big bang Labour want is more than likely destabilise the tax system.

 

[mrtrench]

No you cheeky monkey, Mr John McDonnells unrealistic view on the corporate response to higher taxes. It's a dynamic system & predictions like he's ,made based on a steady state are wholly inadequate. The only way to change things safely is gradually, this big bang Labour want is more than likely destabilise the tax system.

The last time corporation tax rates fell, the take increased and so did income tax take. Laffer curve in action. However McDonnell knows loads more than me about economics so it will all be fine.

 

[skybluegod]

you're assuming he can't keep them. It's fact that the tories have failed to clear the deficit in the time scale they stated.
Labour produced a costed manifesto, yes, some of those costs may have been disputable, the tories produced one that was totally uncosted, I can't believe people keep making excuses for them.

Well considering how much of the younger vote was gained by promising to get rid of student debt, yet it had now been proven by financial experts that their costs were nowhere near what they said...
yes the tories have broken promises, but circumstances change, and every government in the history of mankind had broken promises that’s politcis mate.

 

[clint van damme]

Well considering how much of the younger vote was gained by promising to get rid of student debt, yet it had now been proven by financial experts that their costs were nowhere near what they said...
yes the tories have broken promises, but circumstances change, and every government in the history of mankind had broken promises that’s politcis mate.

So we're listening to financial experts now? Only when they said Brexit would cost each family in the UK over £4,000 per year we were told the country had had enough of experts!

 

[fernandopartridge]

The last time corporation tax rates fell, the take increased and so did income tax take. Laffer curve in action. However McDonnell knows loads more than me about economics so it will all be fine.

Have you got the statistics to back this up? Could it not be rising profitability leading to rising corporation tax?

 

[skybluegod]

So we're listening to financial experts now? Only when they said Brexit would cost each family in the UK over £4,000 per year we were told the country had had enough of experts!

Where do you think Corbyn gets his numbers from? I guarantee it’s a financial expert?

 

[mrtrench]

Can find or google yourself. I'm out and about so can find later. The economic theory is called the laffer curve.

 

[skybluegod]

Also I don’t like the idea of taxing individuals for earning more money?
So if you are successful in life and work damn hard to get to the top of the business, you get punished for doing so? I don’t see how that’s fair.

 

[clint van damme]

Where do you think Corbyn gets his numbers from? I guarantee it’s a financial expert?

That's fine by me, I was just pointing out that the tories seem to have a when it suits us attitude to listening to experts.

I don't agree with everything Corbyn does and I don't but into the personality cult that surrounds him but I'm prepared to give him a chance because I think this tory government is truly, truly awful.
One that is becoming apparent is that the cult building up around Corbyn is nothing compared to the one around the tories who, for many, as this thread proves, are beyond criticism.

 

[clint van damme]

Also I don’t like the idea of taxing individuals for earning more money?
So if you are successful in life and work damn hard to get to the top of the business, you get punished for doing so? I don’t see how that’s fair.

do you think it's fair that hard working people have to use food banks?

 

[Kingokings204]

Also I don’t like the idea of taxing individuals for earning more money?
So if you are successful in life and work damn hard to get to the top of the business, you get punished for doing so? I don’t see how that’s fair.

Yeah of course it's so the lazy gits on benefits can get more money. The ones who never work. I appreciate that's not everyone but yes it's a good point well made.

Surely if we all paid the same tax level throughout the country people would strive and thrive to make more money thus bettering themselves and the country and no one could argue.

 

[Kingokings204]

do you think it's fair that hard working people have to use food banks?

Not at all. It disgusting. But is that the tax systems fault? (Genuine question)

 

[mrtrench]

Can find or google yourself. I'm out and about so can find later. The economic theory is called the laffer curve.

Have a moment more. Clearly only a fool would claim that a multi variable function had an effect entirely from one variable changing. However, the relationship between tax rate and take is known to not be monotonically increasing. And it makes sense intuitively too. The higher the rate the more likely that the tax will be avoided.

 

[skybluegod]

That's fine by me, I was just pointing out that the tories seem to have a when it suits us attitude to listening to experts.

I don't agree with everything Corbyn does and I don't but into the personality cult that surrounds him but I'm prepared to give him a chance because I think this tory government is truly, truly awful.
One that is becoming apparent is that the cult building up around Corbyn is nothing compared to the one around the tories who, for many, as this thread proves, are beyond criticism.

I agree the tories, haven’t been great since Cameron left, but then I do think they have an impossible job.
I don’t think labour are the right option, so for it’s just the lesser of two evils. And as someone who’s career is in the Navy, I don’t trust Corbyn as leader.
I don’t like May and I do think the Tories are lacking direction don’t get me wrong. Just don’t think labour is the answer.

 

[clint van damme]

Not at all. It disgusting. But is that the tax systems fault? (Genuine question)

Not entirely. I'd put more blame on wage contraction and the wealth grab that is going on in this country, (and others).
However, the last round of tax cuts for higher rate earners could have been better used in this regard.