Anyone still believe..... (16 Viewers)

[dongonzalos]

This is a scene that has been repeated on numerous times.
At the beginning of the season McNulty was the worst for it.
Not hitting the target. Not making the keeper work.

 

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[Nick]

Disagree with here.

We have created lots of clear cut chances, just off the top of my head some glaring ones being...

McNulty two vs Chesterfield, one on one clean through.
And a header which was a sitter few yards out open goal.

Max Biamou vs Swindon away clear through one on one fluffed it.
Samme match match clear through tripped over shouId have penalty.

Both these situations game was goalless.

I think as mentioned before we should have had a few penalties at least, most worrying is the players when clean through woukd rather fall down look for a penalty than have confidence to try staying feet and shooting.

I can akso think of abput three vincenti free headers few yards put clear of marker and hes put it wide, ehen easier to score.

But we have played 13 games....

The McNulty ones were pretty bad.

This "clear one on one" against Swindon, the one where the defender put in a good tackle and blocked it?

I am not saying there haven't been any at all, just not the way people are going on as if we have 5 or 10 of them every game.

 

[Londonccfcfan]

Nazon has also fluffed two certain goals well ones he woukd svore 99 times out of hundred with a half decent connection...both when the game has been on the line, was behind the goal for both.

Vs Cambridge central position has time to shoot no defender in sight miss kicks it easy save for their keeper.

Sane vs Accrington but doesntget it on target.

 

[Esoterica]

Disagree with here.

We have created lots of clear cut chances, just off the top of my head some glaring ones being...

McNulty two vs Chesterfield, one on one clean through.
And a header which was a sitter few yards out open goal.

Max Biamou vs Swindon away clear through one on one fluffed it.
Samme match match clear through tripped over shouId have penalty.

Both these situations game was goalless.

I think as mentioned before we should have had a few penalties at least, most worrying is the players when clean through woukd rather fall down look for a penalty than have confidence to try staying feet and shooting.

I can akso think of abput three vincenti free headers few yards put clear of marker and hes put it wide, ehen easier to score.

You can't use being brought down (was outside the box anyway) as a glaring miss! I thought he'd fluffed that one on one at the time too but when i watched it back it's a brilliant recovery from the defender.

You're gonna have to elaborate on players going down for penalties instead of shooting though, can't think of 1 example myself?

 

[Nick]

Nazon has also fluffed two certain goals well ones he woukd svore 99 times out of hundred with a half decent connection...both when the game has been on the line, was behind the goal for both.

Vs Cambridge central position has time to shoot no defender in sight miss kicks it easy save for their keeper.

Sane vs Accrington but doesntget it on target.

Again, the Cambridge one was a volley from the edge of the box with players in front of him. It isn't a 99 times out of 100 goal.

These are great goals if they go in, I am talking bread and butter goals (like his one when Kelly put him through).

The fact people are scraping for bad misses rather than being able to reel off tens of them shows there isn't actually that many.

For example, if Biamou hadn't been tackled against Swindon. That would be a bad miss, clean through one on one. People act as if we are getting multiple chances like that with no defender in sight every game.

 

[Londonccfcfan]

You can't use being brought down (was outside the box anyway) as a glaring miss! I thought he'd fluffed that one on one at the time too but when i watched it back it's a brilliant recovery from the defender.

You're gonna have to elaborate on players going down for penalties instead of shooting though, can't think of 1 example myself?

 

[Londonccfcfan]

You can't use being brought down (was outside the box anyway) as a glaring miss! I thought he'd fluffed that one on one at the time too but when i watched it back it's a brilliant recovery from the

The defender got nowhere it,... I suggest you watch it again like I just have on extended highlights.
vigoreux their keeper saved it with his left foot also....took ages setting it up on his right when he coul£ have shot with his left.

Yes the one on one few mins later was just outside the box. But he was clearly looking for it. Hence why the ref didn’t even give a foul. Mind you had he given a foul, clear sending off. But my point being he could have taken an extra touch and been inside the box with their staying put.

 

[Nick]

The defender got nowhere it,... I suggest you watch it again like I just have on extended highlights.
vigoreux their keeper saved it with his left foot also....took ages setting it up on his right when he coul£ have shot with his left.

Yes the one on one few mins later was just outside the box. But he was clearly looking for it. Hence why the ref didn’t even give a foul. Mind you had he given a foul, clear sending off. But my point being he could have taken an extra touch and been inside the box with their staying put.

He has just posted a gif, you can see the ball change direction...



It was going bottom right.

 

[Londonccfcfan]

Again, the Cambridge one was a volley from the edge of the box with players in front of him. It isn't a 99 times out of 100 goal.

These are great goals if they go in, I am talking bread and butter goals (like his one when Kelly put him through).

The fact people are scraping for bad misses rather than being able to reel off tens of them shows there isn't actually that many.

For example, if Biamou hadn't been tackled against Swindon. That would be a bad miss, clean through one on one. People act as if we are getting multiple chances like that with no defender in sight every game.

I suggest you also watch it again like I have he is well inside the box when he strikes it it’s from almost the penalty spot.
I was right behind and just before he struck it I turned to my son and said goal. A decent connection and it’s in.

Anyway. My point being we create plenty of chances.

 

[Londonccfcfan]

He has just posted a gif, you can see the ball change direction...

GIF is not clear I suggest you watch it not on Gif, clear save by keeper!!
In the extended highlights the commentator even says great save but keeper lol. Or words to that effect,

 

[Nick]

GIF is not clear I suggest you watch it not on Gif, clear save by keeper!!
In the extended highlights the commentator even says great save but keeper lol. Or words to that effect,

Yes, the keeper saved it after the player blocks it from going to the keeper's left.

 

[dongonzalos]

But we have played 13 games....

The McNulty ones were pretty bad.

This "clear one on one" against Swindon, the one where the defender put in a good tackle and blocked it?

I am not saying there haven't been any at all, just not the way people are going on as if we have 5 or 10 of them every game.

I don't think anyone is saying that.
That's the same as saying you are going on like every shot we ever have is from a distance.
Over the course of the season we have missed enough decent chances in tight games to suggest that if we had a better striker we could be in the top three.

 

[Nick]

I suggest you also watch it again like I have he is well inside the box when he strikes it it’s from almost the penalty spot.
I was right behind and just before he struck it I turned to my son and said goal. A decent connection and it’s in.

Anyway. My point being we create plenty of chances.

Yes, it was between the box and pen spot.

You have listed a couple over 13 games. Not really prolific is it?

 

[Nick]

I don't think anyone is saying that.
That's the same as saying you are going on like every shot we ever have is from a distance.
Over the course of the season we have missed enough decent chances in tight games to suggest that if we had a better striker we could be in the top three.

Which chances? That's what I keep asking you.

 

[Londonccfcfan]

Yes, the keeper saved it after the player blocks it from going to the keeper's left.

Jeez so omg what amazing save then it deflected off their defender onto their keepers right boot.
Biamou is unlucky.

 

[Nick]

Jeez so omg what amazing save then it deflected off their defender onto their keepers right boot.
Biamou is unlucky.

It wasn't an amazing save, it was a better tackle and defensive block if anything.

It wasn't as clear cut and one on one as you made out, as there was a good block.

That's the point.

The McNulty header was very, very clear cut. It isn't like we are making multiple ones like that every game.

 

[dongonzalos]

Which chances? That's what I keep asking you.

I can't be bothered to go back to every match and pick out any that would take me ages.
Off the top of my head thwice Mcnultly has had the ball trapped under his feet inside the box. In space where he should have connected.
A third occasion he did a bit of magic himself got 1 on 1 with keeper and shit wide. Not in target.
Beavon has also got the ball stuck under his feet.
DKE shooting wide when in the box.
Numerous shots have gone wide.
Bim heading over
Vincenti when part of the front three missing numerous headers and some shots.
On top of the above you also have the factor of balls into the box or crosses that would come if the right movement was made and platters believed in the striker making them.
Also the right striker would make chances for himself.

 

[Nick]

I can't be bothered to go back to every match and pick out any that would take me ages.
Off the top of my head thwice Mcnultly has had the ball trapped under his feet inside the box. In space where he should have connected.
A third occasion he did a bit of magic himself got 1 on 1 with keeper and shit wide. Not in target.
Beavon has also got the ball stuck under his feet.
DKE shooting wide when in the box.
Numerous shots have gone wide.
Bim heading over
Vincenti when part of the front three missing numerous headers and some shots.
On top of the above you also have the factor of balls into the box or crosses that would come if the right movement was made and platters believed in the striker making them.
Also the right striker would make chances for himself.

So people aren't crossing because they don't believe in the strikers? I think what you mean there is that we have Jones on one side who will try to shoot 8/10 times rather than cross it and the other side we have had DKE the last couple of games who doesn't really suit that style of play. Same with Vincenti.

You are listing the ones people have discussed already. How many times have there been amazing defence splitting passes that strikers haven't reacted to?

We have played 13 games, there have been a couple of games (I think it was Carlisle and Chesterfield) where we have missed a couple of chances. However it isn't something that is happening every single game where we are creating bags of chances but just not finishing them.

 

[Londonccfcfan]

It wasn't an amazing save, it was a better tackle and defensive block if anything.

It wasn't as clear cut and one on one as you made out, as there was a good block.

That's the point.

The McNulty header was very, very clear cut. It isn't like we are making multiple ones like that every game.

What do you want as clear cut? Open goals?

Anyway your point as usual is a bad one...don’t bite

 

[Nick]

What do you want as clear cut? Open goals?

Anyway your point as usual is a bad one...don’t bite

No, clear cut would be McNulty's header for example.

A shot by the edge of the box with a box full of players between them and the goal isn't really a clear cut chance. A lot of the misses would have been great goals if they had gone in.

The system is wrong for free flowing attacking football, it is designed to not concede goals by having 2 DMs. It's no co-incidence that in the games we played well in the second halves, Kelly was much more advanced.

 

[Londonccfcfan]

No, clear cut would be McNulty's header for example.

A shot by the edge of the box with a box full of players between them and the goal isn't really a clear cut chance. A lot of the misses would have been great goals if they had gone in.

The system is wrong for free flowing attacking football, it is designed to not concede goals by having 2 DMs. It's no co-incidence that in the games we played well in the second halves, Kelly was much more advanced.

I suggest you just watch any matches extended highlights of second half.

Cambridge alone Second half did enough to win two or three games.

 

[GaryMabbuttsLeftKnee]

What do you want as clear cut? Open goals?

Anyway your point as usual is a bad one...don’t bite

I think there's a few things in this. Nick is exaggerating how few chances we create, there have been a fair few decent enough chances not taken. He'll probably say 'Name them', but in reality you get like 2 or 3 of the open goal chances he wants you to name in a season. I think Biamou must be the first CCFC striker in history to not score in 10/11 games and escape criticism from a fair number of fans, maybe because he cost practically nothing and came from non-league? Either way I'm not sure how you can not put any blame on the striker who's gone that many games without scoring, surely he and Mcdonald have to take some of the blame through lack of movement or creativity of their own? However, is isn't entirely there fault and he does have a point in that we aren't as creative as we should be so the strikers are struggling for goals. One thing i would say is, the strikers are also capable of fashioning opportunities for themselves and this never looks like happening, the Duck aside, which is a concern. To look and slate individual misses isn't going to help anyone, Ronaldo missed a chance from a yard out this weekend just gone, but what's clear is Biamou and to an extent Mcdonald don't look like they can create anything that isn't put on a plate for them, which does worry me.

 

[Nick]

I think there's a few things in this. Nick is exaggerating how few chances we create, there have been a fair few decent enough chances not taken. He'll probably say 'Name them', but in reality you get like 2 or 3 of the open goal chances he wants you to name in a season. I think Biamou must be the first CCFC striker in history to not score in 10/11 games and escape criticism from a fair number of fans, maybe because he cost practically nothing and came from non-league? Either way I'm not sure how you can not put any blame on the striker who's gone that many games without scoring, surely he and Mcdonald have to take some of the blame through lack of movement or creativity of their own? However, is isn't entirely there fault and he does have a point in that we aren't as creative as we should be so the strikers are struggling for goals. One thing i would say is, the strikers are also capable of fashioning opportunities for themselves and this never looks like happening, the Duck aside, which is a concern. To look and slate individual misses isn't going to help anyone, Ronaldo missed a chance from a yard out this weekend just gone, but what's clear is Biamou and to an extent Mcdonald don't look like they can create anything that isn't put on a plate for them, which does worry me.

It isn't really exaggerating. I am talking about bad misses here that people make out we have every game. A bad miss is McNulty's header or when he put himself clean through against Chesterfield.

I'm not saying open goal chances, I am saying clear cut chances where 9/10 times they should be a goal. A lot of the "chances" would have been good goals, not standard bread and butter chances that should go in most times.

 

[Londonccfcfan]

A clear cut chance is when you think omg yes he’s gonna score,,must score( prematurely ejaculate) and then it dawns you omfg how the hell did he miss that.

 

[Greggs]

He has just posted a gif, you can see the ball change direction...

View attachment 8168

It was going bottom right.

If he had a left foot, near post, easy!

 

[Nick]

A clear cut chance is when you think omg yes he’s gonna score,,must score( prematurely ejaculate) and then it dawns you omfg how the hell did he miss that.

Yep, like when McNulty gets a header 6 yards out and misses it or goes clean through.

 

[dongonzalos]

So people aren't crossing because they don't believe in the strikers? I think what you mean there is that we have Jones on one side who will try to shoot 8/10 times rather than cross it and the other side we have had DKE the last couple of games who doesn't really suit that style of play. Same with Vincenti.

You are listing the ones people have discussed already. How many times have there been amazing defence splitting passes that strikers haven't reacted to?

We have played 13 games, there have been a couple of games (I think it was Carlisle and Chesterfield) where we have missed a couple of chances. However it isn't something that is happening every single game where we are creating bags of chances but just not finishing them.

Not sure if you are cherry picking points to win a debate. Or are you only reading the points that suit you. Crossed and through balls. Yes the right striker will make the right runs fir the through ball. Yes the right striker will be in the end if the cross abd when they are more times than not it will make the keeper save or they hit the post or score.
Yes players are influenced by someone's form. Jones for example wrongly is one of our top scorers. If he is in the edge of the box and Beavon makes a run into the box Jones will fancy himself over Beavon. If Luke Norris on current form runs into the box and Jones wastefullty shoots instead. Morris goes mental, as does MR, as do the fans.
Everything in life is decision making if you have a striker banging in goals in the box it affects your decision making.
If you however are one of the main men from shots from distance you are more likely to choose that option

 

[dongonzalos]

Yep, like when McNulty gets a header 6 yards out and misses it or goes clean through.

So people aren't crossing because they don't believe in the strikers? I think what you mean there is that we have Jones on one side who will try to shoot 8/10 times rather than cross it and the other side we have had DKE the last couple of games who doesn't really suit that style of play. Same with Vincenti.

You are listing the ones people have discussed already. How many times have there been amazing defence splitting passes that strikers haven't reacted to?

We have played 13 games, there have been a couple of games (I think it was Carlisle and Chesterfield) where we have missed a couple of chances. However it isn't something that is happening every single game where we are creating bags of chances but just not finishing them.

Second point the Ines that have been mentioned before I will mention them as they are why I formed my opinion. Plus the odd one not mentioned.
Dies my point have to be unique chances never mentioned before??

 

[dongonzalos]

So people aren't crossing because they don't believe in the strikers? I think what you mean there is that we have Jones on one side who will try to shoot 8/10 times rather than cross it and the other side we have had DKE the last couple of games who doesn't really suit that style of play. Same with Vincenti.

You are listing the ones people have discussed already. How many times have there been amazing defence splitting passes that strikers haven't reacted to?

We have played 13 games, there have been a couple of games (I think it was Carlisle and Chesterfield) where we have missed a couple of chances. However it isn't something that is happening every single game where we are creating bags of chances but just not finishing them.

Last point I would estimate 50% of our games had decent chances not taken

 

[Nick]

Not sure if you are cherry picking points to win a debate. Or are you only readin the points that suit you. Crossed abd through balls. Yes the right striker will make the right runs fir the through ball. Yes the right striker will be in the end if the cross abd when they are more times than not it will make the keeper save or they hit the post or score.
Yes players are influenced by someone's form. Jones for example wrongly is one of our top scorers. If he is in the edge of the box and Beavon makes a run into the box Jones will fancy himself over Beavon. If Luke Norris on current form runs into the box and Jones wastefullty shoots instead. Morris goes mental, as does MR, as do the fans.
Everything in life is decision making if you have a striker banging in goals in the box it affects your decision making.
If you however are one of the main men from shots from distance you are more likely to choose that option

You mean like Chris Stokes going mental at Jones for shooting at the weekend?

Jones isn't really a main man from shots from distance either.

 

[dongonzalos]

It isn't really exaggerating. I am talking about bad misses here that people make out we have every game. A bad miss is McNulty's header or when he put himself clean through against Chesterfield.

I'm not saying open goal chances, I am saying clear cut chances where 9/10 times they should be a goal. A lot of the "chances" would have been good goals, not standard bread and butter chances that should go in most times.

You do exaggerate to try and make a point earlier you suggested all our chances are coming from long distance which just isn't true.
You also suggest the other person in the debate is taking about 10 clear cut chances in the game. Which they haven't.
You always drop to exaggerations to try and make a point.
Whereas actually it just devalues the point you are trying to make.
Ignore me if you want but try to stick with what the person says.

 

[Warwickhunt]

No, clear cut would be McNulty's header for example.

A shot by the edge of the box with a box full of players between them and the goal isn't really a clear cut chance. A lot of the misses would have been great goals if they had gone in.

The system is wrong for free flowing attacking football, it is designed to not concede goals by having 2 DMs. It's no co-incidence that in the games we played well in the second halves, Kelly was much more advanced.

agree with that about Kelly Nick!

 

[Nick]

You do exaggerate to try and make a point earlier you suggested all our chances are coming from long distance which just isn't true.
You also suggest the other person in the debate is taking about 10 clear cut chances in the game. Which they haven't.
You always drop to exaggerations to try and make a point.
Whereas actually it just devalues the point you are trying to make.
Ignore me if you want but try to stick with what the person says.

There have also been exaggerations about clear cut through on goal chances, which they clearly aren't. It isn't exaggerating, look at the reaction to Biamou on Saturday. "Is this the last time we will play for us" type comments, as if he had missed loads of sitters and was disgraced.

Watch through the full match replays, you are resorting to highlights, radio commentary and what others have posted.

 

[dongonzalos]

There have also been exaggerations about clear cut through on goal chances, which they clearly aren't.

Watch through the full match replays, you are resorting to highlights, radio commentary and what others have posted.

If there are then I say the same to them. You shouldn't moan about them when you di the exact same.
I am purely talking about chances that should have made the keeper work. Plus chances that are not even happening because we don't have an automatic prop motion wining striker in place to create them through doing his bit. That is the right run, changing the manifest if the other players and clinicalness

 

[stupot07]

Not sure if you are cherry picking points to win a debate. Or are you only reading the points that suit you. Crossed and through balls. Yes the right striker will make the right runs fir the through ball. Yes the right striker will be in the end if the cross abd when they are more times than not it will make the keeper save or they hit the post or score.
Yes players are influenced by someone's form. Jones for example wrongly is one of our top scorers. If he is in the edge of the box and Beavon makes a run into the box Jones will fancy himself over Beavon. If Luke Norris on current form runs into the box and Jones wastefullty shoots instead. Morris goes mental, as does MR, as do the fans.
Everything in life is decision making if you have a striker banging in goals in the box it affects your decision making.
If you however are one of the main men from shots from distance you are more likely to choose that option

So Jones won't pass or cross to any of our strikers because they're not scoring?



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