Taxi on the way (22 Viewers)

[skybluetony176]

I am basing on our squad now compared to others in the league, not that you would notice. That's why it is using common sense.

I must be missing out on every other team splashing their millions, massive squads and no restraints on budget compared to ours. I like how we should ignore other managers saying things about our team because it is just them saying it, but we should listen to Robins when he says it.

This season he doesn't have his hands tied, he has been unlucky with injuries though which will be a bigger factor.

Snigger. You’re not going to answer the questions then. Surprise. You’re clearly setting your stool out ready to pass blame away from our owners. No surprise there.

 

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[Deleted member 5849]

People bang on about Mansfield throwing money about and really investing, who did they bring in? Other than Luton, who has gone out and done a job in the transfer window with big name players?

Robins first signing was the captain of the team who won League 2 last season wasn't it? McNulty had a decent reputation in League 2, Andreu had a decent reputation, Grimmer had a great reputation at Shrewsbury in League 1. Vincenti even had a decent reputation as a player above League 2.

McNulty had had a brief flash of form in this league a couple of seasons ago, Vincenti was coming back from a bad injury the previous season and arguably hasn't been the same player since, hence Rochdale were happy to release him... so was a gamble, Grimmer only played in half of Shrewsbury's games last season. Since he left... they've improved immeasurably.

Just about every player we've brought in has either been granted a chance to make a reputation, or to extend a career... and we know how the latter turns out, with the likes of De Zeuww, Ricketts, Kilbane...

Now... this doesn't make the recruitment wrong in any sense of the ord, but it isn't exactly a cast-iron certainty they all work out... or any of them, for that matter!

 

[Nick]

Snigger. You’re not going to answer the questions then. Surprise. You’re clearly setting your stool out ready to pass blame away from our owners. No surprise there.

I don't think our budget was in the relegation zone last season for us to go down no. I don't and didn't think it was going to have us competing for promotion to the Championship though.

I said the same in the summer when a couple of people had said how SISU had changed, the good recruitment wasn't down to them it was about the budget fitting with the league. That was said before we even kicked a ball.

It's even less of a surprise you don't seem to want to talk about the players, the recruitment and the statistics that people like esoterica post that clearly point to things being tactical how we can go out and beat teams like Luton but struggle when others park the bus but just bang your chest gormlessly. In your words, like a poor man's letsallsingtogether.

 

[dongonzalos]

I thought it was Waggot who was the one who actually admitted that our budget was around 8th.
Whilst quite a few here were adamant it had to be in the top 6 at a minimum.
Even once Waggot admitted quite a few in here still somehow knew more than him and refused to believe it.
In Division 4 I would like to think our budget is top 6. However I wouldn’t fall off my seat if I discovered we are 8th in terms of budget again.
Yes costs will have dropped with the relegation but so did Income.
SISU wants us to completely pay for ourselves so we won’t have a great budget.
Only thing that will help us have a top 3 budget would be is if one of the younger players gets sold.
This is the model that suited Tim Fisher experienced free transfers and academy kids.

 

[Nick]

McNulty had had a brief flash of form in this league a couple of seasons ago, Vincenti was coming back from a bad injury the previous season and arguably hasn't been the same player since, hence Rochdale were happy to release him... so was a gamble, Grimmer only played in half of Shrewsbury's games last season. Since he left... they've improved immeasurably.

Just about every player we've brought in has either been granted a chance to make a reputation, or to extend a career... and we know how the latter turns out, with the likes of De Zeuww, Ricketts, Kilbane...

Now... this doesn't make the recruitment wrong in any sense of the ord, but it isn't exactly a cast-iron certainty they all work out... or any of them, for that matter!

So who, apart from Luton went out and signed loads of proven League 2 players?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

SISU wants us to completely pay for ourselves so we won’t have a great budget.

This is key, isn't it.

(And without opening *that* can of worms, wasn't that exactly the reason SISU kept banging on about owning a stadium, to boost income to help budgets!)

 

[Deleted member 5849]

So who, apart from Luton went out and signed loads of proven League 2 players?

I assume this means you agree with me that Robins has not signed established players, so there is absolutely nothing either way to suggest what budget we have.

 

[Nick]

Probably the same as us, draft in youth players. Our only advantage is that our youth team is better than everyone's in this league.

It looks like they go from First Team to Under 18. Could be wrong but not many League 2 teams have the U23 step.

 

[Nick]

I assume this means you agree with me that Robins has not signed established players, so there is absolutely nothing either way to suggest what budget we have.

Bar Luton I can't see many who have gone out and drafted in players as good (on paper / reputation etc) as ours.

I'm by no means saying we even have a top 3 budget, but it will be up there enough to compete so Robins has no excuse to not get playoffs and no hands tied excuse like in the past.

 

[Grendel]

I thought it was Waggot who was the one who actually admitted that our budget was around 8th.
Whilst quite a few here were adamant it had to be in the top 6 at a minimum.
Even once Waggot admitted quite a few in here still somehow knew more than him and refused to believe it.
In Division 4 I would like to think our budget is top 6. However I wouldn’t fall off my seat if I discovered we are 8th in terms of budget again.
Yes costs will have dropped with the relegation but so did Income.
SISU wants us to completely pay for ourselves so we won’t have a great budget.
Only thing that will help us have a top 3 budget would be is if one of the younger players gets sold.
This is the model that suited Tim Fisher experienced free transfers and academy kids.

Again budgets are pointless measures and ours has to be higher than 8th

 

[skybluetony176]

I don't think our budget was in the relegation zone last season for us to go down no. I don't and didn't think it was going to have us competing for promotion to the Championship though.

I said the same in the summer when a couple of people had said how SISU had changed, the good recruitment wasn't down to them it was about the budget fitting with the league. That was said before we even kicked a ball.

It's even less of a surprise you don't seem to want to talk about the players, the recruitment and the statistics that people like esoterica post that clearly point to things being tactical how we can go out and beat teams like Luton but struggle when others park the bus but just bang your chest gormlessly. In your words, like a poor man's letsallsingtogether.

You’re using all the same reasoning that you and others were using last season while insisting that we had a top half of the table budget and in some cases top 6 budget. I and one or two others said early doors last season that there was no way that we had a top half of the table budget let alone top six and took a lot of stick for our common sense based on history and based on how we were performing. Took a lot of stick right until it was confirmed that we were correct, around Easter IIRC.

NW has made a lot of the observations I to have regarding our summer recruitment. Couple that with our recent history of declining budgets, couple that with recent history of what the chairman sells as fact and your assumption looks far from common sense. It looks naive at best, biased in favour of useless owners at the expense of the manager at worse.

Give MR a break, he has a lot to overcome as has any manager of Coventry in recent years not least his employers. Give him some credit instead of setting him up for the fall guy. He deserves better than that. TF and SISU don’t.

 

[Nick]

You’re using all the same reasoning that you and others were using last season while insisting that we had a top half of the table budget and in some cases top 6 budget. I and one or two others said early doors last season that there was no way that we had a top half of the table budget let alone top six and took a lot of stick for our common sense based on history and based on how we were performing. Took a lot of stick right until it was confirmed that we were correct, around Easter IIRC.

NW has made a lot of the observations I to have regarding our summer recruitment. Couple that with our recent history of declining budgets, couple that with recent history of what the chairman sells as fact and your assumption looks far from common sense. It looks naive at best, biased in favour of useless owners at the expense of the manager at worse.

Give MR a break, he has a lot to overcome as has any manager of Coventry in recent years not least his employers. Give him some credit instead of setting him up for the fall guy. He deserves better than that. TF and SISU don’t.

You are just showing you don't really read what people say now. I give him stick when he makes bad decisions tactically, I give him stick when we are drawing with teams who have 10 men at home and we stick with 2 defensive midfielders and have 1 attacker in the box. I gave him and TW all of the credit over the summer and corrected people who said things that SISU might have turned a corner and backed Robins with money and actually tried to give SISU credit for it.

It isn't naive to think we have a squad more than capable of competing, it isn't naive to think we have a bigger squad than a lot of teams, it isn't naive to think that we managed to get players that other teams were after.

Maybe have a read of some of the football threads, the ones discussing tactical decisions, the ones showing how we can easily beat teams at the top but struggle when teams park the bus to get more of an idea of the football side of it.

As I've said, I'm not shouting for top 3 autos or hammering teams week in week out. I said at the start of the season playoffs would be a minimum and I didn't get carried away like a lot of others did.

 

[lifeskyblue]

I think robins has weathered the storm for now. Expectations of owners, management, players and fans is of an immediate promotion. If we drop out of top 7 again then there will undoubtably be more calls for him to go. No matter how far we have fallen we are the biggest club in terms of history and fan base in l2 and the scalp the other teams want.
I think robins has created a good spirit amongst the players (with the exception of duck) and they do work hard for each other. My concern is that we over depend on our defence and tactically set out very deep. On Saturday for example as soon as we scored we dropped 10yds-15yds making the gap between the midfield and attack far too wide. And we dropped deeper as the second half progressed...inviting them to have the ball and seize the initiative.


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[Esoterica]

Agreed. The 'not scoring goals' has been an issue but to be fair, the reason why we're near the top is because of our defensive work and grinding out low scoring victories. I've not had the chance to go this season but I'd think that mentally, the squad we have this season is mentally stronger than previous season. Overcoming the amount of injuries we've had, not getting too concerned about lack of goals and everything going on off the pitch, the team (and Robins) have done well.

My only concern is that with the injuries we've had, we're already down to 2nd or 3rd replacements. If they get injured, things get a little tastier. We need to wrap McNulty up in cotton wool as well for the remainder of the season. We've now got our 20 goals a season striker.

There's a bit of a myth around the defence this year and grinding out 1-0s. Our clean sheets record has been amazing and is 2nd only to Wigan in the Football league but the majority have come in comfortable wins. And we've lost 1-0 more than we've won 1-0!

We've kept clean sheets in 9 of 13 victories but we've also scored at least 2 goals in 9 of the victories too - there have been only 4x 1-0 wins amongst them and 2 of those came in the last 2 matches, whereas we've had the same amount of 1 goal margin victories (4) where we have conceded:

Victories:
4x 1-0
3x 2-0
2x 3-0
(3x 2-1, 1x 3-2)

Conversely, we've failed to score in 7 of our 8 defeats and 3 of our 5 draws have been 0-0. We've lost more games than anyone else in the top 6.

3x 0-0
5x 0-1
2x 0-2
(1x 1-2)

And this for me is where the suggestions of negativity come from and accusations of being overly defensive, especially away from home where we've only scored 3 first half goals all season (and only 5 in the first 60 minutes). It's a fine line but I feel in many winnable games we've lacked that balance between defence and attack. None of this will matter of course if we cling on to 3rd place but my gut feeling about this squad is that even despite the injuries, we should be closer to 1st than 4th - I don't think we're especially mentally stronger than last year, just that we're much better than most teams we play.

 

[oucho]

You’d have given thorn 3 seasons

I'd give any manager 3 seasons. Why expect instant success? It's not a realistic expectation.

What's your view on MR....sacked if we don't go up? Sacked if we don't make the play-offs?

 

[Esoterica]

I'd give any manager 3 seasons. Why expect instant success? It's not a realistic expectation.

What's your view on MR....sacked if we don't go up? Sacked if we don't make the play-offs?

You are consistent with your opinion at least, I do remember you saying you didn't see the point in sacking Slade

 

[Grendel]

I'd give any manager 3 seasons. Why expect instant success? It's not a realistic expectation.

What's your view on MR....sacked if we don't go up? Sacked if we don't make the play-offs?

Play offs or out.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

You are consistent with your opinion at least, I do remember you saying you didn't see the point in sacking Slade

I know we go round this circle every so often, being city fans, but there's always the old philosophy of Brian Clough, who reckoned if a manager needed sacking, then the board who appointed him needed to go too, as they clearly couldn't judge what was a good manager.

It's also true that just about every manager we've tried in recent years has had success somewhere... but the downward spiral continues with the club, regardless. The constant of course is always who owns the club.

Now, that doesn't invalidate your analysis of Robins's strengths and weaknesses, not in the slightest. Fans of Barnsley said to expect a negative manager and it seems to be in his make-up to build from a position of 'don't lose' first. That being said, given the level we're at it's not altogether surprising that managers have flaws too, much as players do.

And those flaws would have been obvious to any clued-up owners too, and they'd judge he was the man despite those flaws.

The path to madness is doing the same thing time over time again, and it's probably why most football clubs end up lurching from crisis to crisis as they go for the easy option, sacking the manager.

Personally I feel we absolutly have to get promotion this season, or the downward trend will threaten to carry on again. That being said, if we don't...there may indeed be flaws we can point to with Robins, but the culture of the club suggests it's more that any success we get is despite of the club we are, rather than because. Robins is the least of our worries or concerns if we fail yet again.

 

[oucho]

Play offs or out.

Do you not feel that sustained success in the long term can't be produced unless we drop the "shotgun selection" policy whereby managers have 12-18 months to sink or swim, and that we'd do better if we invested in someone with backing over a longer time scale, allow them to fail in the short term if it helps develop a strategy, squad and behind-the-scenes setup over a period of years which breeds the consistent approach needed to bring coherence back to the club?

 

[dongonzalos]

Again budgets are pointless measures and ours has to be higher than 8th

Deja vu

 

[dongonzalos]

Do you not feel that sustained success in the long term can't be produced unless we drop the "shotgun selection" policy whereby managers have 12-18 months to sink or swim, and that we'd do better if we invested in someone with backing over a longer time scale, allow them to fail in the short term if it helps develop a strategy, squad and behind-the-scenes setup over a period of years which breeds the consistent approach needed to bring coherence back to the club?

No we should stick with what’s worked over the last 10 years. Continue to cut the budget. If we the don’t finish higher up the league sack the manager.
When the new bloke comes in and he is stuck with players he didn’t sign. Then he signs a load more and changes the ethos. It should all just work straight away really.
Can’t see how you can’t see that.

 

[ccfchoi87]

We gave Mowbray 9 months longer than we should and look where that got us

 

[oucho]

No we should stick with what’s worked over the last 10 years. Continue to cut the budget. If we the don’t finish higher up the league sack the manager.
When the new bloke comes in abd he is stuck with players he didn’t sign. Then he signs a load more and changes the ethos. It should all just work straight away really.
Can’t see how you can’t see that.

Ay yes, that explains our great run of prosperity and success these last few years!

We gave Mowbray 9 months longer than we should and look where that got us

Arguably we should have given him another 18 months and then judged him then. Are you suggesting that we should sack a manager as soon as we begin a bad run of results?

 

[Nick]

I think the time for a manager to go is when they show no signs of turning it around.

I don't think Robins should be sacked, I think he should be given a chance to adapt and try different things. It's when they start being stubborn and not addressing things or speaking about completely different games after the match.

It also depends on the manner of performances, for example if we were in the play off final and 1-0 down and they went down to 10 men and he persisted with 2 defensive midfielders for example.

 

[ccfchoi87]

Ay yes, that explains our great run of prosperity and success these last few years!



Arguably we should have given him another 18 months and then judged him then. Are you suggesting that we should sack a manager as soon as we begin a bad run of results?

We were bottom of league 1 without a win and we should've given him 18 more months. Yes we should've sacked him in Jan/Feb as he had a history of bottling it. We had one shot at promotion and he blew it. Had we sacked him and had a new manager bounce we'd have gone up. It couldn't have gone any worse anyway

 

[dongonzalos]

Ay yes, that explains our great run of prosperity and success these last few years!



Arguably we should have given him another 18 months and then judged him then. Are you suggesting that we should sack a manager as soon as we begin a bad run of results?

And there is a really simple solution if it doesn’t work again, just sack the manager again. Also maybe fir good measure higher another chap above the manager abd if you a different scapegoat get him to resign.

Most importantly though keep the same owner and the same chairman.

 

[skybluetony176]

Play offs or out.

That will help. Always has in the past.

 

[oucho]

We had one shot at promotion

We get one of those every season. So what if it had been 2017 or 2018 rather than 2016? The important thing is continuity, not short-term results. Being bottom after 10 games was not a sackable offence.

 

[ccfchoi87]

We get one of those every season. So what if it had been 2017 or 2018 rather than 2016? The important thing is continuity, not short-term results. Being bottom after 10 games was not a sackable offence.

Yep we do. Thanks to Tony that chance is now in league 2. If we hadn't have sacked him we wouldn't be 3rd in this league, we would be relegation fodder

 

[Nick]

And there is a really simple solution if it doesn’t work again, just sack the manager again. Also maybe fir good measure higher another chap above the manager abd if you a different scapegoat get him to resign.

Most importantly though keep the same owner and the same chairman.

Who has said that?

Why do you never engage in discussions about his tactics and decisions during games? Both good and bad. It wasn't so long ago you were posting on every thread about how he was wrong about McNulty and he was a failure for example but wouldn't ever discuss why or what he was failing at.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

The important thing is continuity, not short-term results.

Yup, and tbh I am not really sure that Mowbray was ever the right choice for that.

But then again... he was appointed and allowed to manage in the way he saw fit. If that way was not appropriate then who was culpable for allowing him to do so in the first place, and manage in that way? And if they got it wrong then, why would you assume they'd get it right the next time?

 

[Skyblueweeman]

I know we go round this circle every so often, being city fans, but there's always the old philosophy of Brian Clough, who reckoned if a manager needed sacking, then the board who appointed him needed to go too, as they clearly couldn't judge what was a good manager.

It's also true that just about every manager we've tried in recent years has had success somewhere... but the downward spiral continues with the club, regardless. The constant of course is always who owns the club.

Now, that doesn't invalidate your analysis of Robins's strengths and weaknesses, not in the slightest. Fans of Barnsley said to expect a negative manager and it seems to be in his make-up to build from a position of 'don't lose' first. That being said, given the level we're at it's not altogether surprising that managers have flaws too, much as players do.

And those flaws would have been obvious to any clued-up owners too, and they'd judge he was the man despite those flaws.

The path to madness is doing the same thing time over time again, and it's probably why most football clubs end up lurching from crisis to crisis as they go for the easy option, sacking the manager.

Personally I feel we absolutly have to get promotion this season, or the downward trend will threaten to carry on again. That being said, if we don't...there may indeed be flaws we can point to with Robins, but the culture of the club suggests it's more that any success we get is despite of the club we are, rather than because. Robins is the least of our worries or concerns if we fail yet again.

This is the post of the WHOLE year. Good work.

 

[Ashdown]

We have had some managers who have needed to be removed in days gone by.................but this sure isn't one of them. The football can be dire, the entertainment poor value, the tactics inconsistent but........... we are up the shit, with a diminishing fan base, utterly single minded and distrusted owners, a toxic atmosphere around the place when we do lose and without any real assets. MR is doing ok so far and if he's sacked if we finish 9th it will purely be to deflect the blame from the owners once again.

 

[skybluetony176]

I know we go round this circle every so often, being city fans, but there's always the old philosophy of Brian Clough, who reckoned if a manager needed sacking, then the board who appointed him needed to go too, as they clearly couldn't judge what was a good manager.

It's also true that just about every manager we've tried in recent years has had success somewhere... but the downward spiral continues with the club, regardless. The constant of course is always who owns the club.

Now, that doesn't invalidate your analysis of Robins's strengths and weaknesses, not in the slightest. Fans of Barnsley said to expect a negative manager and it seems to be in his make-up to build from a position of 'don't lose' first. That being said, given the level we're at it's not altogether surprising that managers have flaws too, much as players do.

And those flaws would have been obvious to any clued-up owners too, and they'd judge he was the man despite those flaws.

The path to madness is doing the same thing time over time again, and it's probably why most football clubs end up lurching from crisis to crisis as they go for the easy option, sacking the manager.

Personally I feel we absolutly have to get promotion this season, or the downward trend will threaten to carry on again. That being said, if we don't...there may indeed be flaws we can point to with Robins, but the culture of the club suggests it's more that any success we get is despite of the club we are, rather than because. Robins is the least of our worries or concerns if we fail yet again.

Agree with all of that although I would add to the point of the managers appointed have had success elsewhere they’ve also had periods of success here, Slade aside.

 

[Captain Dart]

This is the post of the WHOLE year. Good work.

Its only the 2nd day, we might yet see better. :angelic: