italiahorse
Well-Known Member
All people do that surely ?
Stand up if you've never watched Wasps (13 Viewers)
- Thread starter oucho
- Start date
All people do that surely ?
Calista
Well-Known Member
No, again fair comment. But the thing that makes me unwisely get drawn in, is the accusations of hypocrisy that get bandied about. The question is whether all moves (whether it be Wimbledon to MK, Wasps to Wycombe, CCFC to Northampton, Wasps to West Ham, Wasps to Coventry, or CCFC to Birmingham as you would have liked) are exactly the same. If they are, it would clearly be strange to have different views about them. If as I maintain, they are not, we are all entitled to take different stances on them without having insults thrown.
Nick
Administrator
There is a lot of hypocrisy that's why it gets said. You had somebody from the trust saying that if city fans went to watch us if we moved to Bermuda park selfish and ranting, calling for fans rights etc then going to the media to tell them how great it was watching wasps.
It gets said because there's no consistency with the morals we heard so much about off others, we were told about strong silliness and principles of moving to them see "ah wasps fans didn't moan let's get on it too"'.
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
Until you see the difference you will keep going round in circles on this.
We had no need to move other than Sisu risking our club for their gain.
Wasps have moved risking their club for the fans gain.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
No wasps didn’t move for the fans gain at all. They moved to attract a new set of fans and the existing fans were not even considered. Are you actually telling me that if there was massive protests they’d have backed down.
This is the problem with you. It’s not even the blatant hypocrisy it’s the sheer bollocks you talk. Wasps didn’t give a fuck about the existing fans. They targeted a new fan base and if that was 280 miles away they’d have still done it.
Nick
Administrator
They moved to target new fans and a new area, they have said it themselves. He even bragged about it about one of the games.
Again, I don't need other people to tell me if I should think something is right or wrong. That's the difference, said it years ago about sheep and why it was so easy for Wasps PR to crank up.
People are openly saying they were ok with it because there was no outrage or annoyed people so to them it was fine. It's the whole thinking of looking to other people and the media to see what your opinion should be.
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
The old fans are coming in numbers as well though.
Obviously they needed to attract new fans if they were going to triple the stadium size.
Obviously they needed to attract new fans if they were going to triple the stadium size.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Well you questioned my poll evidence so now provide concrete evidence that’s the case and I’m sorry just saying you talk to them isn’t - that’s the kind of bullshit Tim Fisher or his doppelgänger Eastwood would say.
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
Lets just say the car parks are full of travelling fans from southern addresses.
Poll evidence ? You quoted a poll that was open to everyone.
Tim Fisher bullshitting ? At last it hits home !!
Grendel
Well-Known Member
So you made it up.
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
Can't help due to Data protection.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
No you made it up and have no answer. Call that c**t Eastwood he will give you one - both in the literal and meterphorical sense.
Don’t start asking for evidence from me when all you have is lies and wasps spin.
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
So you don't think I know where my customers live ?
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
La La Land?
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
Only one from there
Calista
Well-Known Member
Cannot agree with that. The move was at the expense of existing fans (who did far too little to oppose it, and some of whom were in favour), but to the benefit of a whole new set of people who have taken it on board and are enjoying it in larger numbers. They also did it for commercial gain of course. Also economic benefits to Coventry, but sadly reinforcing the demise of a football club whcih had already been taken into the wilderness by its owners. It's a multi-dimensional picture, but to suggest that they moved "for the fans" is rubbish.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Given that when you posted on their forum begging for business they told you do do one as you were charging too much money I would suggest they exist in your own mind.
Nick
Administrator
Another example is the outrage at the thought of the Ricoh being used to load debt against, there were petitions when it was thought SISU might be doing it.
Obviously Wasps fans weren't bothered and the PR machine said it was good business so it was repeated phrase for phrase.
Obviously Wasps fans weren't bothered and the PR machine said it was good business so it was repeated phrase for phrase.
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
'He' asked why I was charging more than football.
Now a good friend and regular customer.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
You had 4 replies didn’t you?
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
LOL. Sisu could never do it. More like obtain the freehold and build a housing estate.
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
You tell me ?
Oh, you can't you've been black balled. LOL
I'll quote one of the posts though.....
Hi Italia I am really keen on having a parking season ticket next season at the Ricoh -- do you do special deals?
Your friend Skybluetony76 says you provide a really great service
..... guess who you saddo ? LOL
Calista
Well-Known Member
Let’s hypothetically say Fisher turns round and say he has a great plan to take us to the NEC (which seemed an outside possibility a while back, and which Grendel described as a perfect venue). In the club’s opinion securing CCFC in a new stadium is paramount. Some fans are persuaded by the lovely architect’s drawings, they like the idea of going by train or all the easy parking, and they support the move. Others (me included) who object in principle to Coventry City playing next to Birmingham International station don’t bother to kick up a fuss. Are we saying that the reaction of the fans wouldn’t matter? Of course it would! In that scenario, our feeble acceptance would validate the move and we’d have no-one to blame but ourselves when Coventry lost its football club. It might not be a disaster from a sporting success point of view. It would actually be quite similar to the Wasps thing – a much shorter distance, but still a change of town and would result a completely different fan base, based much more on corporate I would imagine.
Various principles matter, the background matters, the detailed merits of every case matter, and people’s reactions definitely matter. Where would the rights and wrongs lie in the above case? It’s rarely black and white.
Various principles matter, the background matters, the detailed merits of every case matter, and people’s reactions definitely matter. Where would the rights and wrongs lie in the above case? It’s rarely black and white.
Nick
Administrator
Get him to leave you a google review, the one you wrote is looking lonely
I'm surprised EST give you full access to the details other than number plates to allow in, nothing to stop you going direct and cutting them out...
Nick
Administrator
I didn't say they could or would but again you completely miss the point. I didn't even mention the thought of Joy taken a few mill out while they were there.
Nick
Administrator
I'd judge the situation for myself on whether I would still go and watch or not. I wouldn't need anybody else to tell me whether I should or not or a PR machine to crank up to influence it. The same as I said I would if we went to Bermuda Park or the other side of a city boundary.
For starters, there would need to be a finished stadium before you could really judge it.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Yeah I forgot I was one of the respondents so you had 3
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Anyone can load debt against a leasehold. Pretty desperate isn’t it?
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
I've always said that any plan should show the benefits of moving away from the Ricoh.
At the end of the day fans will vote with their feet as they did at Northampton if they get it wrong.
"We expect about 6000 but if results are not as good as expected it could be as low as 3000" Tim Fisher
Calista
Well-Known Member
Blimey, you’re not ruling out Coventry City playing on the outskirts of Birmingham? And the reaction of other fans wouldn’t matter, only whether it suited you to go? You’ve completely astonished me with that to be honest, after all the talk about the absolute principle of sports clubs not moving. Seems like there are shades of grey after all, which is all I've ever said.
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
I don't know............or care
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Ha ha ha. That’s so pathetic it went all the way around to funny again. And I thought I was supposed to be the stalker. First pretending to be me on another forum and then pretending I put him your way on a Wasps forum. Someone needs professional help. Quick.
Nick
Administrator
You said Fisher had a great plan to move us by the NEC. I said you can't judge anything based on Fisher saying he had a plan and there would need to be a finished stadium. If it was the outskirts of Birmingham then it would also be the outskirts of Coventry, so even if a fantastic new owner came in and followed through with it I'd judge it at the time regardless of what the media or fans group were telling me to do. The same as if CCFC moved to Baginton or Coombe Abbey which isn't in Coventry.
I wouldn't need to ask other fans to make up my own mind on whether to go or not, no. Why would I? It's the same as when the same person from the Trust was telling everybody they would be selfish if CCFC moved to a CCFC owned stadium at bermuda park while he was going to the media to big up Wasps, I'd probably go if it was in that distance of about 2 miles down the same road and not pay attention to what others tried to tell me to think.
My point hasn't been about shades of grey, it's been about people needing to be told what they should think about something. Comparing something on the outskirts isn't really the same as changing the name and going 80 odd miles is it? At which point I can categorically say I'd be done with football for good regardless of who the owners were.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
That's such a load of rubbish even Wasps don't pretend that any more. They've open said property is the priority and the rugby club is an afterthought.
There is, or at least there was, minutes from a council meeting on the CCC website where they say if ACL was sold under no circumstances should the new owner be able to use it to obtain finance.
Calista
Well-Known Member
I used the NEC as an example because people on SBT have actually mentioned it as a viable place for CCFC. We’re not talking Meriden here, we’re talking the NEC, which most definitely isn’t on the outskirts of Coventry. It’s Birmingham.
People endlessly trundle out the line “If you’re OK about Wasps, by definition you’d have to support Coventry City moving 80 miles”. It’s bollocks.
I could equally say “If Coventry City can play on the edge of Birmingham, by definition you must think Wimbledon would have been OK they’d only moved as far as Leatherhead”. Also complete and insulting bollocks.
It’s not purely about distance, it’s about identifying with a specific place and the reaction of fans.
People endlessly trundle out the line “If you’re OK about Wasps, by definition you’d have to support Coventry City moving 80 miles”. It’s bollocks.
I could equally say “If Coventry City can play on the edge of Birmingham, by definition you must think Wimbledon would have been OK they’d only moved as far as Leatherhead”. Also complete and insulting bollocks.
It’s not purely about distance, it’s about identifying with a specific place and the reaction of fans.