SlowerThanPlatt
Well-Known Member
Judging from yesterdays selection, I think it’s clear Robins doesn’t rate/trust O’Brien as much and Burge is firmly the number one goalkeeper as many expected him to be dropped for his mistake last week
Burge or O'Brien, who's in goal today? (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter steve82
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steve82
Well-Known Member
Yet he trusted him enough to face a premier league side?
I think MR was happy with the reaction in training this week from a Burge to continue with a settled back 5 and retain the shirt and believe his confidence was back tho this wasn't evident early in the first half.
Plenty of if buts and maybes between Burge and O'Brien.
letsallsingtogether
Well-Known Member
What about the kick he took for our goal.
Thought that was decent.
SlowerThanPlatt
Well-Known Member
Yes he played because he’s getting no game time in the league, he hasn’t played since. He’s also played the majority of games in the cup competitions so this was Robins just being fair IMO. Burge was straight in after
Burge has played 26 games this season (23 in the league)
O’Brien has played 8 games this season (4 in the league)
I’m not sure how can anyone can question that Robins doesn’t rate Burge higher as a goalkeeper. Neither keeper has been injured, they have been available for selection every week
steve82
Well-Known Member
Two points I'd like to make, 1 you suggest Robins doesn't rate/trust him as high as Lee Burge.... yet he's trusted against a premier league opposition. So I'd beg to differ your thoughts there if Robins lacked faith tho I'm not disputing who should be No1
2nd the thread was set up to see people's thought on who should start yesterday's game as it was Lee Burges confidence I brought into question not his ability or who's the better No1.
O'Brien started the season due to Burges injury, started well but made two quick fire errors. Burge came in and did a good job to rightfully keep the shirt after keeping 3 clean sheets and being value for the No1 spot. It's from this point he's retained No1 status and generally been safe hands this year in L2.
I'd like to reiterate it's his confidence that was questioned this last week after a huge costly error and further disappointing decisions in the game.
Burge was injured for the first week or two of the season. Guessing he would have started as No 1 if he wasn't.
Both have made 2 howlers this season, except Burge has made 2 in 26 games and O'Brien has made 2 in 8.
Neither are perfect, both have their flaws, but Burge is better and MR agrees. I think people seem to forget that we are in Division 4 and every player has their faults - Stokes is slow, Doyle hoofs it forward all the time, Biamou is a poor finisher, etc etc - and there's a reason why they aren't playing higher.
Otis
Well-Known Member
I do think we can question that Robins rates Burge higher.
O'Brien came in, started off well, but then made two howlers in a row that cost us major points and was rightly dropped. Burge has since kept his place.
I dare say if Burge made two dreadful howlers in a row that cost us the game then Burge would be dropped and O'Brien would be back in.
I do think what you have said is just assumption and there is no proof at all that Robins rates Burge higher.
SlowerThanPlatt
Well-Known Member
He started that game because he’s played the majority of games in the cup competitions so Robins was just being fair and using his two goalkeepers. He hasn’t played since the Stoke game which backs up my point
SlowerThanPlatt
Well-Known Member
I disagree here Otis
It’s not an assumption. It’s a fact - Robins has chosen to select Burge over O’Brien 25 times this season in the league. Robins’ remit is to get the club promoted and in doing so will select the side he feels is the strongest and gives us the best chance of that
steve82
Well-Known Member
I'm really sorry and not being argumentative but your point is flawed.
Burge played in the first 2 fa cup games not O'Brien, like Burge played in the 1st checkatrade trophy game when O'Brien had the shirt. Robins rotates when the time is right and trusts both.
Burge clearly has No1 status currently due to the run he put together keeping clean sheets, but to suggest he's don't rate or trust O'Brien is crazy.
Robins then looked to keep some consistency prior to the 1st and 2nd fa cup rounds with team selections keeping Burge in after the sides indifferent form which paid off in December.
As Otis said two back to back costly errors I'm sure O'Brien would be in.
Otis
Well-Known Member
Tis an assumption though.
Is Willis or Davies better than McDonald? This is the way football works. You get your chance in the team and if you do well you keep your place. You do badly you are dropped.
O'Brien was dropped for two consecutive clangers. Burge made one last week. This week he didn't.
If Burge was making howlers then surely O'Brien would be back in.
I would say McDonald is our best defender, but he is being kept out because the other two are playing so well, not because they are better players.
That's how football works. You get the chance, you do well, you stay in.
Robins might well rate both keepers on an even keel.
SlowerThanPlatt
Well-Known Member
The general consensus on here though is that Burge hasn’t been playing well and that’s hes terrible and flaps at every high ball?
So why is he staying in the team? Is he playing well then?
Otis
Well-Known Member
He hasn't made howlers that have cost us games lately past that one last week.
O'Brien made two complete howlers in a row. That is the difference.
O'Brien cost us two games in a row. Burge cost us the game last week. Had he cost us the game yesterday too he would undoubtedly have been dropped.
SlowerThanPlatt
Well-Known Member
Okay. So if O’Brien cost us two games in a row and has made 2 costly mistakes in 4 games whilst Burge has made 2 costly mistakes in 23 games would you not agree Robins would trust Burge more as his goalkeeper to gain promotion based on their performances this season?
steve82
Well-Known Member
I don't think many have said that or questioned his continuous inclusion in the side.
Burge has his doubters it's fair to say who are still scared by his past errors.
I think it's fair to say and a good report to suggest he's a good L2 keeper and good shot stopper, distribution is poor but improving but is questionable when he's asked to make a decision. Hes even more questionable and erratic when confidence is low. He's a confidence player without a doubt, the 1st half priced that yesterday.
He grew in confidence and it showed as the game went on.
But to write O'Brien off at this stage too is unfair.
SlowerThanPlatt
Well-Known Member
I never said Robins doesn’t trust O’Brien btw. My post said that he would trust Burge more than O’Brien as the goalkeeper to get us promoted as O’Brien has played 4 league games making 2 mistakes and Burge has played 23 league games making 2 mistakes
Otis
Well-Known Member
No, cos it just doesn't work like that. I think it was the two howlers in a row that both cost us the games that resulted in O'Brien being dropped.
Players come into and go out of form. LOB dropped from two successive howlers that cost us points.
Burge came in and did pretty well. Last week's howler was an awful one though and I have no doubt he would have been dropped had he done it again.
It's not about how many games either of them have appeared in, it's about taking your chance and then keeping your place.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Having watched the highlights I can only conclude you were behind the goal at the other end of the pitch.
Otis
Well-Known Member
And can I just flip this on its head a minute.
When O'Brien came in, if he had not made the dreadful mistakes and had continued to have played reasonably well do you honestly think MR would have dropped him?
He would have surely kept his place. Would that then mean O'Brien is better than Burge?
SlowerThanPlatt
Well-Known Member
He did make the mistakes though? You can’t say *if he didn’t* to defend him. He has made them and will probably spend the rest of the league campaign on the bench barring injury
*If* Biamou could add 20 goals to his game he’d be playing in the Championship.
Lots of ifs and buts. To answer the question though, yes it would make him a better goalkeeper in the managers eyes as the manager picks his strongest team.
Otis
Well-Known Member
But I am saying he was only dropped because he made two mistakes back to back.
If he was going to be making those sorts of mistakes regularly we wouldn't have brought him in, in the first place. Robins obviously rated him enough to bring him in.
If he was that bad of a keeper we wouldn't have touched him with a barge pole.
He made two bad errors in a row and was rightly dropped. If Burge had made two bad errors in a row he would have been dropped too.
Burge has the number one jersey for now. Willis and Davies have the CB places nailed for now.
That doesn't mean that Burge is more highly rather than O'Brien or that Davies and Willis are both better than McDonald.
We seem to be going round in circles, so we will have to agree to disagree.
Robins has given no indication that he rates Burge higher than O'Brien and it was the same last season with Burge and RCC.
steve82
Well-Known Member
I think that's a fair analysis
Londonccfcfan
Well-Known Member
I have been a big critic of Burge. Just watched the highlights of yesterday’s game a few times I must say fair dues for the two saves they were top top saves.
He has made some very important big saves at times.
Just wish he was a better kicker, and commanded his box better with good communication.
He has made some very important big saves at times.
Just wish he was a better kicker, and commanded his box better with good communication.
larry_david
Well-Known Member
Going back to the start of the season, I remember Grimsby away and thinking to myself, we've got a confident bastard of a keeper here. He looked the part, tall, athletic, mean as fuck and he played the game the same way. I was absolutely shocked when he fucked up against Newport then Yeovil, couldn't believe it. Then you think back to the start. Grimsby didn't even had a shot on goal... Maybe, just maybe the solid defence made lob look good. When teams did get through, he was exposed. There's a decent keeper in there, I'd almost want him to get a month out on loan to try element those mistakes but we can't do that and we can't throw him in for a run of games just to see.
RCC was much worse last season, hence why Burge took the shirt and kept it.
Whether he is or isn't good enough for L1 I'm not sure, but he certainly wasn't the reason we were relegated.
IrishSkyBlue
Facebook User
can someone tell me seeing those highlights why burge flaps so much and has no confidence going for balls in the air?
SlowerThanPlatt
Well-Known Member
...I’m guessing all the players have banter with eachother?
steve82
Well-Known Member
I'd hope so!!
thekidfromstrettoncamp
Well-Known Member
Before the last game I read Burge had made 61 saves in the games he had played in conceded a goal a game in the league I think those figures stand up pretty against goalkeepers in any of the bottom 2 leagues . I'm not his best fan by any means but some on here want to give the guy a break . Certain players have missed a few 1 on1's in games but too some that does not matter these are just as vital if you want to win promotion . By the way I previously said those 61 saves mean perhaps the defence is not as tight without him.
Hobo
Well-Known Member
You over look one fact, he is part of that defence.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Not really. By your argument Bruce Grobellear was a better goalkeeper than Gordon Banks - I disagree.