Full and frank fiscussipn (17 Viewers)

[Nick]

You can't just get rid of him though, it needs somebody to want him or a pay off.

 

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[Terry Gibson's perm]

You can't just get rid of him though, it needs somebody to want him or a pay off.

Bomb squad and make it that he can’t train with the team basically force him out

 

[Nick]

Bomb squad and make it that he can’t train with the team basically force him out

He will still only go if he gets a pay off finds a new club on a deal to his liking so we can scrap his contract by mutual.

It's the same whether he trains in the canteen or with the U8's.

 

[ccfcway]

Going off thread a little. Accringtons manager played most of his football in lower leagues, and obviously knows what to do at this level as their league position shows. So maybe that's the type of manager we need ?

Step fwd Chris Hussey

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

(Assertively) 'Right lads, that wasn't good enough out there, that's the sort of game we should be winning'

Most of the squad reacted negatively.

Max Biamou looked fired up.

 

[Hobo]

I'd ask why a squad place and wage were being invested in Beavon who appears to add nothing. Another player on his salary could be another option for us an attacking asset, not just a passenger.

I would ship you straight out for causing divisions in the squad. Everyone is in it together. And everyone capable of making a contribution. Once you point a finger, then all of a sudden you have fingers pointing in loads of directions and your squad is fragmented.

 

[oucho]

I would ship you straight out for causing divisions in the squad. Everyone is in it together. And everyone capable of making a contribution. Once you point a finger, then all of a sudden you have fingers pointing in loads of directions and your squad is fragmented.

Not so much of a free and frank discussion after all then, if there are consequences for saying what you think.

 

[oucho]

Yes unfortunately it was 24 months or his next goal so we took the shorter option

Whoever authorised that needs a right bollocking.

 

[ajsccfc]

(Assertively) 'Right lads, that wasn't good enough out there, that's the sort of game we should be winning'

Most of the squad reacted negatively.

Max Biamou looked fired up.

I knew we should have saved it on Friday night so we could reload

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

He will still only go if he gets a pay off finds a new club on a deal to his liking so we can scrap his contract by mutual.

It's the same whether he trains in the canteen or with the U8's.

But these people don’t like being forced to train alone or with the juniors and it may give him a nudge to find somewhere else at the moment it’s an easy last payout, I was stunned when we renewed his deal maybe burton would like him back

 

[Nick]

But these people don’t like being forced to train alone or with the juniors and it may give him a nudge to find somewhere else at the moment it’s an easy last payout, I was stunned when we renewed his deal maybe burton would like him back

Why would he find somewhere else if he can't find another club who will pay him what we will?

 

[Hobo]

Not so much of a free and frank discussion after all then, if there are consequences for saying what you think.

Criticising formations, tactics is one thing, but once it becomes personal about individuals, it just snowball's and disintegrates a squad. You end up with well what about him and what about your mistake and you havent done any better (a bun fight); well known in sporting psychology circles. The focus should be on what the team/the group have and haven't done. Every squad member has strengths and weaknesses. Management is about bringing out the strengths and covering for the weaknesses. You should also be trying to develop people's skills.

 

[oucho]

Criticising formations, tactics is one thing, but once it becomes personal about individuals, it just snowball's and disintegrates a squad. You end up with well what about him and what about your mistake and you havent done any better (a bun fight); well known in sporting psychology circles. The focus should be on what the team/the group have and haven't done. Every squad member has strengths and weaknesses. Management is about bringing out the strengths and covering for the weaknesses. You should also be trying to develop people's skills.

Point remains....by definition, it's ain't a "full and frank" discussion if some topics are off limits.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I knew we should have saved it on Friday night so we could reload

Would be reloading a lot of flipping times

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Bomb squad and make it that he can’t train with the team basically force him out

So what's Beavon done to deserve being treated like shit?

it’s an easy last payout

Alternatively he's a good professional who sets a good example to younger players, who fans would have been utter mentalists to expect a regular goalscorer, based on his entire career.

But no, let's treat him like scum because he doesn't fit February's idea of a first team.

 

[Nick]

Point remains....by definition, it's ain't a "full and frank" discussion if some topics are off limits.

Surely common sense?

 

[oucho]

Surely common sense?

I wouldn't have automatically said any topics are off limits.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Point remains....by definition, it's ain't a "full and frank" discussion if some topics are off limits.

In its context it is. Full and frank as football managers talking to players goes. In anycase, what the fuck did Beavon have to do with the defeat on Saturday? Your supposition that he could be replaced with a "better player" is completely irrelevant.

 

[Nick]

I wouldn't have automatically said any topics are off limits.

Everything has a limit and a context to it. Full and frank would be "what do you think went wrong", "how did we lose" rather than picking out a player who wasn't even on the bench who even when he does play has the ball hammered over his head all game.

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

Why would he find somewhere else if he can't find another club who will pay him what we will?

Anything we can do to force him out should be done and if he doesn’t go just banish him to train alone with no interaction with the players and offer him a pay off, the only thing our strikers could learn from him is how not to play like him, I don’t think he would get into any other league club, the mistake was offering him a deal anybody could have told them he is useless

So what's Beavon done to deserve being treated like shit?



Alternatively he's a good professional who sets a good example to younger players, who fans would have been utter mentalists to expect a regular goalscorer, based on his entire career.

But no, let's treat him like scum because he doesn't fit February's idea of a first team.

Look back if you want I have always thought he is hopeless, it’s not a charity for failed strikers, it was a ridiculous signing we swapped a bloke who was ok for a total dead leg who could run around a lot but can’t even do that now. He is deadwood.

He maybe an example off the field to youngsters but that doesn’t matter, he should hang up his boots and become a youth coach if he wants to be an example.

 

[oucho]

In its context it is. Full and frank as football managers talking to players goes. In anycase, what the fuck did Beavon have to do with the defeat on Saturday? Your supposition that he could be replaced with a "better player" is completely irrelevant.

It's not irrelevant because if we had a player in the squad who actually contributed something then maybe we could have fielded that player and they could have made a difference to the dynamic of the team and thus the performance and thus the result. It's not pointing the finger at Beavon, it's point the finger at the squad management that seems to allow for hanger-on in the squad who take up a valuable slot in the squad.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Anything we can do to force him out should be done and if he doesn’t go just banish him to train alone with no interaction with the players and offer him a pay off

Great people management

 

[Nick]

It's not irrelevant because if we had a player in the squad who actually contributed something then maybe we could have fielded that player and they could have made a difference to the dynamic of the team and thus the performance and thus the result. It's not pointing the finger at Beavon, it's point the finger at the squad management that seems to allow for hanger-on in the squad who take up a valuable slot in the squad.

Beavon is the same sort of player as McNulty, he isn't a target man who is going to beat defenders for flick ons.

Where do you think he will play and how?

 

[fernandopartridge]

It's not irrelevant because if we had a player in the squad who actually contributed something then maybe we could have fielded that player and they could have made a difference to the dynamic of the team and thus the performance and thus the result. It's not pointing the finger at Beavon, it's point the finger at the squad management that seems to allow for hanger-on in the squad who take up a valuable slot in the squad.

Have a day off. Lads I'm letting you off with today's performance because of a player who isn't in the squad.

 

[oucho]

Beavon is the same sort of player as McNulty, he isn't a target man who is going to beat defenders for flick ons.

Where do you think he will play and how?

I'm not making the point that SB ought to be playing. I'm saying that as part of the "full and frank" discussion, there are wider issues which ought to be raised which go well beyond the tactics / personnel used on the day and squad management is one of those. Personally I agree SB seems surplus to requirements. I was one of those right at the start of the season who said we had 1 more striker on the books than we needed, but we lacked an extra option out wide. So it's a valid point, as part of any such discussion, to say we're lacking creativity due to an oversight in squad management, leading to the tactic which you have repeatedly and rightly pointed out, of playing hopeful long balls to players not well equipped to play that way.

 

[oucho]

Have a day off. Lads I'm letting you off with today's performance because of a player who isn't in the squad.

See above. I didn't say I'd let anyone off the hook, but any discussion goes beyond the immediate gameplan/tactics/personnel used on the day.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I'm not making the point that SB ought to be playing. I'm saying that as part of the "full and frank" discussion, there are wider issues which ought to be raised which go well beyond the tactics / personnel used on the day and squad management is one of those. Personally I agree SB seems surplus to requirements. I was one of those right at the start of the season who said we had 1 more striker on the books than we needed, but we lacked an extra option out wide. So it's a valid point, as part of any such discussion, to say we're lacking creativity due to an oversight in squad management, leading to the tactic which you have repeatedly and rightly pointed out, of playing hopeful long balls to players not well equipped to play that way.

It's a valid point to single somebody out, and to victimise him?

 

[Nick]

I'm not making the point that SB ought to be playing. I'm saying that as part of the "full and frank" discussion, there are wider issues which ought to be raised which go well beyond the tactics / personnel used on the day and squad management is one of those. Personally I agree SB seems surplus to requirements. I was one of those right at the start of the season who said we had 1 more striker on the books than we needed, but we lacked an extra option out wide. So it's a valid point, as part of any such discussion, to say we're lacking creativity due to an oversight in squad management, leading to the tactic which you have repeatedly and rightly pointed out, of playing hopeful long balls to players not well equipped to play that way.

Imagine this...

Robins storms in angry as fuck about the performance asking what went wrong, telling the players to tell him what they think what went wrong and get it all out.

Liam Kelly pipes up that it's because he gave Beavon a new contract rather than a midfielder who can create things. This is the same guy who every time he has come on this season we mistake him for Biamou and hammer it over his head.

You then have players who are close to Beavon who think "thats fucking stupid, stop being a twat Liam". Then another player pipes up.

I'd much rather a post mortem of the game on Saturday and FGR to try and be constructive and turn things around, otherwise we may as well let Willis slate K Thomas for staying here so long as a reason for him randomly running away from his man to go for a header.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It's a valid point to single somebody out, and to victimise him?

We have a veteran striker who has hardly played a first team game all season. Either make him a coach or let him go.

 

[Nick]

We have a veteran striker who has hardly played a first team game all season. Either make him a coach or let him go.

We can't let him go, he has a contract for 2 years (well, 1 and a half now). It will take a payoff....

The same as we can't just stop paying Andreu because he got injured to get somebody else in.

When we have played Beavon this year, we have never adjusted the style to suit. That's not saying he is Messi, it's saying it was pretty pointless.

 

[oucho]

It's a valid point to single somebody out, and to victimise him?

I already said it's not a case of pointing the finger at the player, especially as he didn't play FFS. The only point I;m making is that we're down to the bare bones but had an obvious imbalance in the squad, which in itself is contributing to our limitations.

Imagine this...

Robins storms in angry as fuck about the performance asking what went wrong, telling the players to tell him what they think what went wrong and get it all out.

Liam Kelly pipes up that it's because he gave Beavon a new contract rather than a midfielder who can create things. This is the same guy who every time he has come on this season we mistake him for Biamou and hammer it over his head.

You then have players who are close to Beavon who think "thats fucking stupid, stop being a twat Liam". Then another player pipes up.

I'd much rather a post mortem of the game on Saturday and FGR to try and be constructive and turn things around, otherwise we may as well let Willis slate K Thomas for staying here so long as a reason for him randomly running away from his man to go for a header.

I do take your point but I was envisaging them discussing it in a manner as laid out in my reply to Deleted member 5849, above, rather than steaming at each other's throats. You can only have such conversations when tempers have calmed. I personally would think it legitimate, in the day after the Accrington game, for one of the players to say "boss I think our squad lacks another winger". That's all I am saying. They know for themselves that we have a limited squad budget and that at present we have some squad players who MR appears to judge to be surplus to requirements.

 

[Nick]

I already said it's not a case of pointing the finger at the player, especially as he didn't play FFS. The only point I;m making is that we're down to the bare bones but had an obvious imbalance in the squad, which in itself is contributing to our limitations.



I do take your point but I was envisaging them discussing it in a manner as laid out in my reply to Deleted member 5849, above, rather than steaming at each other's throats. You can only have such conversations when tempers have calmed. I personally would think it legitimate, in the day after the Accrington game, for one of the players to say "boss I think our squad lacks another winger". That's all I am saying. They know for themselves that we have a limited squad budget and that at present we have some squad players who MR appears to judge to be surplus to requirements.

Saying "we need a wide player" isn't really the same as putting all the blame on Beavon is it like it started out with.

Hasn't Beavon been injured also?

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

We can't let him go, he has a contract for 2 years (well, 1 and a half now). It will take a payoff....

The same as we can't just stop paying Andreu because he got injured to get somebody else in.

When we have played Beavon this year, we have never adjusted the style to suit. That's not saying he is Messi, it's saying it was pretty pointless.

How do you adjust the style to suit him what are his strengths?

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

Great people management

He is pointless and should be treated like it

 

[Nick]

How do you adjust the style to suit him what are his strengths?

You play it to his feet for starters and not miles over his head like has happened everytime he has come on this season. You play him in behind / in the channels.

He is a clever player, he's actually ideal for when we are holding onto a lead and you want the ball to stick or somebody to help manage the game.

I expect you and Oucho will also be able to discuss it properly and constructively and you will have both notice that we haven't been creating anything at all for strikers apart from less than a handful of games?

I'd say the players like Sayoud are more pointless for us, even he is on a contract though.