too many key players injured... too many lightweights (7 Viewers)

[SlowerThanPlatt]

1 Did I not say bar 1 or 2?

2 Regrettable comment which was taken the wrong way (and apologised for) but keeps being used in debates.

3 Yes.

How would you plan for the club to stay afloat then?

Say we get £3m from the Maddison sell on in the summer. If we didn’t have an academy, we obviously wouldn’t be receiving that. Do you have a better idea on how we can receive that type of money?

 

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[SlowerThanPlatt]

And fair play for apologising but saying ‘it was taken the wrong way’ kinda says you aren’t really that sorry more sorry he seen it and people called you out for it.

What other way can you take someone wishing a season ending injury on you?

I think you need to realise footballers are humans too and have feelings. Someone saying something like that wouldn’t have been nice to read

 

[steve82]

How would you plan for the club to stay afloat then?

Say we get £3m from the Maddison sell on in the summer. If we didn’t have an academy, we obviously wouldn’t be receiving that. Do you have a better idea on how we can receive that type of money?

Pardon me for chipping in but on the talk of a different model of running a club we survive and float on the products of the academy but Peterborough have survived on, with success on finding non league gems.

Now they've had a lot of success over the last 15 years with this model.

 

[Adge]

The average football fan wants to go and watch his football team compete and “win” football matches and we (you and I) are no different. They don’t care about politics/pounds/how the club is funded or the next accounts balance sheet. We are obviously against the grain when it comes to this with our “basket case” of a club and owners.
They have unfortunately put us in this position where you are correct “we are relying on it to keep the club going”. This also means that the academy players will be thrown in at the deep end which more often than not (as we have regularly seen over the years) see’s them sink instead of swimming, all because of the be all and end all to get money in the coffers if the next “Wilson” is hopefully found. As we know for every “Wilson” there is 15 Jack Finch’s and this is why the results on the pitch then come to fruition (not just because of them though). Too many youth/academy players blooded who are not good enough and as a consequence results on the pitch then suffer as a result of the “experiment”.

 

[Adge]

Pardon me for chipping in but on the talk of a different model of running a club we survive and float on the products of the academy but Peterborough have survived on, with success on finding non league gems.

Now they've had a lot of success over the last 15 years with this model.

Or how about less emphasis on the academy? By that I mean downgrade a category and the costs wouldn’t be as high? Surely you will still get players coming through if good enough?

 

[wingy]

Genuine question because I can’t remember, but aside from the fact we had far superior players to now, did Robins have these negative tactical tendencies in his first spell with us? I recall some big wins but can’t recall whether our overall play was more attacking or not.

We had the privelige of Mcgoldrick dragging us 20-30 yards up the pitch so I'd argue we were far more attacking .
Obviously he didn’t do it on his own though, yet I can't recall anyone else.

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

Or how about less emphasis on the academy? By that I mean downgrade a category and the costs wouldn’t be as high? Surely you will still get players coming through if good enough?

You can only recruit from players from age 11 as a Category 3 academy so the bigger clubs will have 3 years to sign anyone up they want from the area

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

Pardon me for chipping in but on the talk of a different model of running a club we survive and float on the products of the academy but Peterborough have survived on, with success on finding non league gems.

Now they've had a lot of success over the last 15 years with this model.

Isn’t it the same idea? I don’t see a difference

For every 15 they buy or make a gamble on only 1 or 2 at a push will make the club any money

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

Or how about less emphasis on the academy? By that I mean downgrade a category and the costs wouldn’t be as high? Surely you will still get players coming through if good enough?

Why would you want less emphasis on something which is successful? Whether you like it or not, the facts are out there which proves it brings more money in than its outlay and is ranked in the top 5 FL.

 

[Adge]

Another point-why go to Brighton academy/u23 to get Maguire Drew and Reading academy/u23to get Barrett? If again the emphasis is “the lifeblood of the club”, surely there are players in the academy that play in them 2 positions aswell?:emoji_thinking:Or again are they not good enough?

 

[Adge]

Why would you want less emphasis on something which is successful? Whether you like it or not, the facts are out there which proves it brings more money in than its outlay and is ranked in the top 5 FL.

I’d say it has limited success.

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

Another point-why go to Brighton academy/u23 to get Maguire Drew and Reading academy/u23to get Barrett? If again the emphasis is “the lifeblood of the club”, surely there are players in the academy that play in them 2 positions aswell?:emoji_thinking:Or again are they not good enough?

Are you for real? No it just means they have a lot more players than us.

Manchester United just signed one of our U16 players. Does that mean their youth set up isn’t good enough?

Another terrible argument

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

I’d say it has limited success.

Well you’re wrong.

The CT looked at this.

We’ve invested £4.5m into our academy system over the last 10 years.

During the same time we’ve received £10.85m in transfer fees

This does not count any add ons we would have also received

How is more than doubling your money in a multi million pound investment limited success?

 

[dadgad]

Over the last ten years the academy has been the only consistent bright spot in the affairs of Ccfc.
Without it we’d’ve been wound up by now.

 

[steve82]

Isn’t it the same idea? I don’t see a difference

For every 15 they buy or make a gamble on only 1 or 2 at a push will make the club any money

While I'm not 100% on how many slip away I'd hazard a guess at it's a similar ratio to academy products that don't make a name for themselves. Ricky Miller was the latest non league name that didn't pay off, but it's a successful model all the same that they have enjoyed promotions off.

A snippet from this article tho on there model....
Prudent Peterborough profiting from their Posh talent agency
Mackail-Smith cost £125,000 and was sold to Brighton for £2.5m. Washington arrived for £150,000 and went to QPR for £2.7m. Assombalonga was a lavish purchase by their standards, costing £1.25m, but was sold 11 months later to Nottingham Forest for an initial £5.5m. Gayle is the one that gives Fry the most satisfaction, signed for £470,000 from Dagenham & Redbridge, then sold for what would eventually be £7.5m to Crystal Palace, 13 goals and seven months later.

 

[Adge]

Well you’re wrong.

The CT looked at this.

We’ve invested £4.5m into our academy system over the last 10 years.

During the same time we’ve received £10.85m in transfer fees

This does not count any add ons we would have also received

How is more than doubling your money in a multi million pound investment limited success?

No-if your more into business then it’s great! More than double your money for the outlay.
I revert back to my other post “the average football fan wants results on the pitch” and not on the balance sheet.
Lets throw this out there then, if the academy closed Tomorrow and we were back in the Championship in 2 years, I couldn’t see many fans shedding any tears?
In the fans eyes (the majority) it’s results on the pitch no matter where the players come from-I’d like to think we’d both agree on that one?

 

[Adge]

Over the last ten years the academy has been the only consistent bright spot in the affairs of Ccfc.
Without it we’d’ve been wound up by now.

Mmmm-not too far off, we are in the bottom tier and making a pigs ear of competing in it.

 

[dadgad]

Mmmm-not too far off, we are in the bottom tier and making a pigs ear of competing in it.

A right horlicks, ‘competing’ is not something we’ve done for a long time now. Still the only club in the modern era never to have reached the playoffs.

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

No-if your more into business then it’s great! More than double your money for the outlay.
I revert back to my other post “the average football fan wants results on the pitch” and not on the balance sheet.
Lets throw this out there then, if the academy closed Tomorrow and we were back in the Championship in 2 years, I couldn’t see many fans shedding any tears?
In the fans eyes (the majority) it’s results on the pitch no matter where the players come from-I’d like to think we’d both agree on that one?

The point of an academy is to make money and provide the club with first team players? In our case, more make money as any player with promise will be taken away quite quickly due to our position. An academy is a business. The club puts money into it every year looking for a return, if they don’t get a return (like Huddersfield) then they will have meetings to see what the alternatives are

No I don’t care where a player is from and I’ve never said I have. I am just a fan like you

 

[Captain Dart]

You can only recruit from players from age 11 as a Category 3 academy so the bigger clubs will have 3 years to sign anyone up they want from the area

Surely a comprehensive cost benefit analysis has been done. Would there be any point in running a Cat 2 academy if it was not of overall benefit to the club.

 

[wingy]

Surely a comprehensive cost benefit analysis has been done. Would there be any point in running a Cat 2 academy if it was not of overall benefit to the club.

Absolutely .