The World Cup Thread (41 Viewers)

[Esoterica]

Surely if the final VAR is to be decided by the onfield ref he decides to use it or not for a decision straight away than a man in a van 60 seconds later saying “fancy checking that one”, surely the fact the tv ref has told the onfield ref to check the decision the TV ref thinks it’s a pen!?

Was just about to say that, he might as well just phone down to him and tell him to give the pen.

 

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[Liquid Gold]

Needs to be limited to offsides, balls crossing the line etc - things that are undebatable. Anything that is down to 1 referees interpretation should be dropped at least until they get used to the technology and are getting those clearcut decisions right. That was never ever a penalty but technically he did stand on his foot so even though it was absolutely fucking ridiculous to change his mind over that, it'll get chalked up as a correct decision.

It's a contact sport, he never went for the player, the Italians didn't appeal. 'Clear and obvious mistake' is the wording, was that clear and obvious enough to change the decision? No way. If refs keep using it to make decisions then you're going to have players falling over on the slightest touch as they know slowed down 1000 times it looks like a foul.

Looking at it now again the ball was already gone before he stood on the ball. Fucking joke.

 

[covmark]

VAR is going to kill the game If it carries on the way it's going. It's a joke atm

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[bringbackrattles]

With VAR and goal like technology I reckon Hursts controversial goal in the 66 Final wouldn't have stood ?
And a Russian linesman wouldn't be so charitable now would he !

 

[I_Saw_Shaw_Score]

With VAR and goal like technology I reckon Hursts controversial goal in the 66 Final wouldn't have stood ?
And a Russian linesman wouldn't be so charitable now would he !

Would be interesting, VAR would have given Lampard his goal v Germany in 2010 to make it 2-2 England would have won that game and the World Cup......

 

[Esoterica]

VAR is going to kill the game If it carries on the way it's going. It's a joke atm

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I know it's still a trial but I have no confidence in them even realising that was the wrong decision and adapting. It's just spoilt a whole game of football for me tonight, and I don't mean because England didn't win because I couldn't give a damn about that in a friendly. One more layer being added to my disillusionment with top level football.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

It's a contact sport, he never went for the player, the Italians didn't appeal. 'Clear and obvious mistake' is the wording, was that clear and obvious enough to change the decision? No way. If refs keep using it to make decisions then you're going to have players falling over on the slightest touch as they know slowed down 1000 times it looks like a foul.

Looking at it now again the ball was already gone before he stood on the ball. Fucking joke.

They already DO go down at the slightest touch. That's why VAR has been bought in. If they continue to go down without any real contact they get booked or sent off or whatever. That should stop the cheats a bit at least.
That tonight was a clear penalty in my view upon replays. He stood on his foot & impeded him - penalty! After that the only real decision is was it intended or accidental, I think the ref got that right too

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[covmark]

I know it's still a trial but I have no confidence in them even realising that was the wrong decision and adapting. It's just spoilt a whole game of football for me tonight, and I don't mean because England didn't win because I couldn't give a damn about that in a friendly. One more layer being added to my disillusionment with top level football.

Couldn't agree more. Decisions like that are opinion. They're not fact like offside or goal line. With opinion, you're always going to have fuck ups. So is that any better than a referee getting a decision wrong? No, it's worse because the game gets disrupted for much longer.

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[Liquid Gold]

Would it have been a huge mistake not to award that penalty? No, of course not. VAR is supposed to sort out big mistakes and that wasn't one. If refs are going to use it instead of doing their job then we may as well do away with an on the pitch ref and just have a studio team making decision.

 

[CJ_covblaze]

Haven’t seen it myself on a replay yet but when he went down I thought penalty. By the sounds of it he was going down already but if you make the contact you give the ref a decision to make.

Happy with the performance again. We probably should’ve won. Decent enough game too.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Would it have been a huge mistake not to award that penalty? No, of course not. VAR is supposed to sort out big mistakes and that wasn't one. If refs are going to use it instead of doing their job then we may as well do away with an on the pitch ref and just have a studio team making decision.

No...somebody needs to communicate decisions to the players or it would be anarchy on the pitch.
If that were a proper game with tournament progression at stake...going to VAR would have been vindicated. In this circumstance - it is on trial, getting used to it as it is something new is all part of introducing it

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[hill83]

The thing I don't like about VAR is you can't even crack on celebrating a goal until some dork with a 15 inch CRT has decided it's allowed.
Even with Englands goal today it wasn't 100% to the people watching on TV, there was too much focus on the ref and the potential for VAR to be used.

I hate it, even if the decision using it for that penalty was right.

 

[bringbackrattles]

Just think though if VAR was around when Maradona did his "Hand of God " cheating goal, or Thierre Henry's hand ball goal in that crucial match, the outcome would have been different and VAR would have been seen as doing it's job ?

 

[covmark]

The thing I don't like about VAR is you can't even crack on celebrating a goal until some dork with a 15 inch CRT has decided it's allowed.
Even with Englands goal today it wasn't 100% to the people watching on TV, there was too much focus on the ref and the potential for VAR to be used.

I hate it, even if the decision using it for that penalty was right.

Ha, yeah, I thought our goal had been disallowed until Italy kicked off.
It just causes mass confusion.

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[chiefdave]

I thought VAR was supposed to be clear and obvious. That was a load of shit.

Makes me laugh how an England player gets the slightest touch and the pundits are saying there was contact definite pen.

Then when one of our players stands on someone's foot they're saying its not a pen!

 

[bringbackrattles]

Other sports use technology okay and when it settles down it should be fine. Its in its infancy stage in football so there will be teething problems. But then again when will football be nice and simple !

 

[Esoterica]

Other sports use technology okay and when it settles down it should be fine. Its in its infancy stage in football so there will be teething problems. But then again when will football be nice and simple !

Other sports use it ok because they use it to verify what are cut and dried decisions missed by the naked eye e.g.

Tennis: is a ball on the line or over it.
Cricket: is the ball going to hit the stumps
Rugby will review a try but what constitutes foul play is more clearly defined and what they review is more clearcut - did his foot touch the line, did he ground the ball in control of it etc

Even the terminology used in football's usage 'clear and obvious error' is open to interpretation and it's never going to settle down while it's used to reverse decisions that were already a judgement call.

 

[bringbackrattles]

Other sports use it ok because they use it to verify what are cut and dried decisions missed by the naked eye e.g.

Tennis: is a ball on the line or over it.
Cricket: is the ball going to hit the stumps
Rugby will review a try but what constitutes foul play is more clearly defined and what they review is more clearcut - did his foot touch the line, did he ground the ball in control of it etc

Even the terminology used in football's usage 'clear and obvious error' is open to interpretation and it's never going to settle down while it's used to reverse decisions that were already a judgement call.

Well put and after reading your explanation of it all it shows it isn't going to be as easy as I thought.

 

[henry the wasp]

Panini stickers at 80p a pack are what's killing the game.

 

[CJ_covblaze]

Just think though if VAR was around when Maradona did his "Hand of God " cheating goal, or Thierre Henry's hand ball goal in that crucial match, the outcome would have been different and VAR would have been seen as doing it's job ?

Would’ve worked in our favour in 86 but also changed the decision that was one of the funniest things that I’ve seen happen on a football pitch.

 

[CJ_covblaze]

Makes me laugh how an England player gets the slightest touch and the pundits are saying there was contact definite pen.

Then when one of our players stands on someone's foot they're saying its not a pen!

After seeing it played back a few times I think it was the correct decision.

 

[Covstu]

Other sports use it ok because they use it to verify what are cut and dried decisions missed by the naked eye e.g.

Tennis: is a ball on the line or over it.
Cricket: is the ball going to hit the stumps
Rugby will review a try but what constitutes foul play is more clearly defined and what they review is more clearcut - did his foot touch the line, did he ground the ball in control of it etc

Even the terminology used in football's usage 'clear and obvious error' is open to interpretation and it's never going to settle down while it's used to reverse decisions that were already a judgement call.

Exactly, we are not clear on when this is to be used or more importantly who says it needs looking at. For me thought this was the refs decision based on if he was unsure rather than someone telling him he is wrong as you know he will change his decision which just doesn’t seem right

 

[Otis]

After seeing it played back a few times I think it was the correct decision.

Yeah, it was technically, but I bet you could analyze just about every goal scored inside the box and find an arm on arm, or slight tug, or minimal contact.

That was a very unfortunate pen last night because it was a pure accident, but by the letter of the law it was a foul.

 

[I_Saw_Shaw_Score]

Yeah, it was technically, but I bet you could analyze just about every goal scored inside the box and find an arm on arm, or slight tug, or minimal contact.

That was a very unfortunate pen last night because it was a pure accident, but by the letter of the law it was a foul.

Surely now every bit of contact has to be reviewed as a possible foul!?

 

[skybluesam66]

Terrible decision
if you give that from VAR, there are 5 pens per game
VAR will ruin football

 

[M&B Stand]

Now I’m no conspiracy theorist but the referee being told via an earpiece by someone unseen in Russia what decision to make is not filling me with confidence.

 

[Liquid Gold]

Stones fouled Immobile in the box early on. Should have been a pen but that wasn't sent to VAR. I just don't know why the ref decided to use it for the one he gave.

 

[chiefdave]

You do get questionable reviews in other sports but not in the way football is where pretty much every VAR decision is questioned.

Some issues can be addressed with minor rules changes. For example make the ball hitting a hand handball no matter if its deliberate or not, remove the grey area. Offside is a binary decision, as is ball over the line (although they have other tech for that).

Problem is with fouls, unless you're going to make it a totally non-contact sport which seems to be the way we're heading. The only way I can see it working if the 4th official can alert the ref that he might have missed something or the ref wants another look. Then have the same ref making the decision. You can't have one ref making some calls in a game and another sat in a room miles away making others. Never going to get consistency.

The other thing they need to sort out ASAP is communicating what is happening with those that have paid to go to the games. Get the ref (or 4th official) to announce what is happening like in the NFL and get the replays on the screens at the ground so everyone can see why is happening.

 

[Otis]

Surely now every bit of contact has to be reviewed as a possible foul!?

Agree. That's why common sense should prevail.

If accidental handball in the box can be deemed to not be a penalty, then surely something like this shouldn't be either.

 

[chiefdave]

Now I’m no conspiracy theorist but the referee being told via an earpiece by someone unseen in Russia what decision to make is not filling me with confidence.

Not sure why you'd think anything dodgy might happen in Russia. This is a piece about the KHL, their top level ice hockey league. Written by Russian sports writer Slava Maiamud:

So, here is what's happening in the KHL, for those who still can't quite grasp the banality of evil, Russian style.

The entire league has been set up this year to allow SKA to win. It's Putin's team, this is Putin's election year, it's chock full of OAR Olympians, SKA is allowed to ignore the salary cap, its payroll is 6 times that of an average team, it has dibs on every star who considers the KHL. Most of its players are rabid Putin supporters who took part in his campaign rally last week. I repeat: SKA must win. It's not an option.

There is a slight possibility of a loss, if the opponent is CSKA, owning to the Moscow team's legacy and the "patriotic value" of their potential victory, but it's a small chance. Putin wants SKA, and SKA it shall be. The KHL even has an official explanation for this:
"Allowing all the best players to concentrate in one team has created unique chemistry that transitioned seamlessly to the Olympic squad. Making the KHL season easy for them has safeguarded against injuries and bad morale. This is why we won the gold"
Yes, the KHL isn't even denying that the entire 2017-18 season is fake. They are simply claiming that sacrificing it for national team's success is totally worth it, "for the honor of the Motherland." They are citing the Soviet model, when the domestic league was also a shame.

However, there is a problem. In the first round of the playoffs, SKA has drawn Severstal Cherepovets. It's not a problem because Severstal is a strong opponent. Not at all. It's an eternal minnow, which has been bad for so long, the league is considering it for contraction.

And this is precisely the problem. Severstal has nothing to lose and nothing to fear. If they bow out to SKA easily, it will prove the league's case and the axe will swing. Giving SKA trouble may at least create enough of a scandal to make the league reconsider.

Severstal is exactly in the same position as the Charleston Chiefs from Slapshot. Trying to stave off the seemingly inevitable demise by being a big story. Even Putin's potential wrath isn't a deterrent. There is also the fact that it's totally unfair to contract Severstal. Yes, it's a struggling team with bad finances, but it's had an incredible season, all things considered. Its fans are amazing. Cherepovets is basically Hamilton, moved way up north and stripped of all its famous Hamilton charm. It's steel mills, hockey, and frozen wasteland.

So this brave little team from a hockey-mad industrial deathscape is being fed into SKA's maw as a playoff appetizer. And it's totally refusing to go down easy! If this wasn't Russia, where evil always wins, it would've been Hoosiers, Miracle and Bad News Bears all in one.

But this is absolutely Russia, so this is what transpires. As SKA, most of its roster badly hung over after Putin's big election bash the day before, is about to lose Game 1, the refs reach for their whistles and blow hard. The penalty minutes count is 24-0 in Severstal "favor".

SKA finally connects on the PP to go up, 3-2, only to see Severstal tie it in the last minute. No problem, though. The refs give SKA two more PPs in overtime, until they finally score. In Game 2, Severstal keep it close for a while, until eventually succumbing.

But in Game 3, with home fans going nuts, Severstal is giving SKA all it can handle. Now, one would think the refs would give this one to the hosts, just to make things plausible. And at least the PIM count is even this time. But the pesky underdogs take it to OT again!

Then, this happens.


If you saw this to the end, you will notice a rather obvious case of offside. The Severstal coach, a cynical, sarcastic dude whose interviews are borderline subversive and make it obvious that everyone knows what's going on, challenged the goal. The play was reviewed.

The replay officials saw exactly what you just saw. They conferred for several minutes and announced their verdict: good goal. Forget making this look plausible, Severstal has become more trouble than it's worth. Better get them out of the way safely. This was too much.

The above video was posted by Severstal's official Twitter account. The word "winning" in "game-winning goal" was in parentheses. The fans' mentions are untranslatable. This, again, is all out in the open. Everyone knows what's going on. Everyone! And nothing can change.

Putin's pleasure and "the Motherland's honor" are what counts. SKA must win. It's the priority. But the last frame of Severstal's little protest video declares, "Hockey Is More Important." In today's Russia, this is as big of an anti-Putin protest as one can be allowed.

Probably, the most tragic thing about it is that Pavel Datsyuk, an amazing player and not in any way a politician, is having his name soiled with this by playing for SKA. But that's what you get when you dance with the devil.

Actually, forget it. The most tragic thing is that everyone in Russia knows what's going on. The fans, the officials, the media. It's out in the open.

And the people who have made it happen (all KHL bosses are Putin's close friends) have already announced that the system has proven effective and should continue.
"For the glory of the Motherland". All I have to say is this, guys. If you learn nothing else from Russia, please, learn to always, always run as fast as you can from the motherfuckers who say they want to bring glory to your country. I am done for tonight.

 

[M&B Stand]

Not sure why you'd think anything dodgy might happen in Russia. This is a piece about the KHL, their top level ice hockey league. Written by Russian sports writer Slava Maiamud:

I’m saying nothing.

 

[CJ_covblaze]

I’m saying nothing.

The fact they’re hosting the World Cup is bad enough. The Qatar one has more merit.

 

[covmark]

The fact they’re hosting the World Cup is bad enough. The Qatar one has more merit.

Indeed. Add the fact that racism in stadia is rife. It's a fucking joke they got the world cup. Last night the French players were subjected to racist abuse. Fifa are a bunch of corrupt clowns.

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[Covstu]

Now I’m no conspiracy theorist but the referee being told via an earpiece by someone unseen in Russia what decision to make is not filling me with confidence.

Exactly this! I was saying this to someone earlier... allow that penalty or she dies!

 

[ccfchoi87]

If that was a penalty then why wasn't the foul on chamberlain in the first half?