Stand up if you've never watched Wasps (15 Viewers)

[Brighton Sky Blue]

You already know the answer.
What you suggested is exactly what Sisu planned to happen and why we ended up in Northampton.
Sometimes you need to negotiate fairly and not flex your 'so called' muscles.

Didn't seem to be much negotiation for Wasps being gifted the ground at a basement price. Also seemed a bit duplicitous of Cllr Lucas to say that there was a path to ownership when she was arranging photoshoots with James Haskell.

The inverted commas are in the wrong place btw

 

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[Nick]

You already know the answer.
What you suggested is exactly what Sisu planned to happen and why we ended up in Northampton.
Sometimes you need to negotiate fairly and not flex your 'so called' muscles.

I am asking about your contradiction.

You keep saying that we need Wasps because without them we would need to move also, now you are saying if they go then things could be potentially better for CCFC as it means there is a chance the club could be linked with the stadium, which makes us better for potential owners.

Like I said, get somebody to untie those knots.

 

[italiahorse]

Which again raises the question why Wasps didn't just build one themselves. Ah, because it takes a lot less time and effort when the ground's already been built. Not for them, mind you, but still.

It's cheaper to lease than buy. Particularly if you have no money.
Sisu wanted to buy, but not at the market value of a stadium with a tenant.
They wanted to buy a white elephant with no tenant.
It was always intended that CCFC would own the stadium but CCFC management messed it up.None more than Sisu.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It's cheaper to lease than buy. Particularly if you have no money.
Sisu wanted to buy, but not at the market value of a stadium with a tenant.
They wanted to buy a white elephant with no tenant.
It was always intended that CCFC would own the stadium but CCFC management messed it up.None more than Sisu.

Is this the part where you criticise SISU for moving the club to Northampton but praise Wasps' prudent financial decision making?

 

[Nick]

It's cheaper to lease than buy. Particularly if you have no money.
Sisu wanted to buy, but not at the market value of a stadium with a tenant.
They wanted to buy a white elephant with no tenant.
It was always intended that CCFC would own the stadium but CCFC management messed it up.None more than Sisu.

You keep saying SISU, you completely ignore when people say it would make the club a better prospect to potential buyers who would want it as a package either leased or an option to buy to link the club and the Ricoh together.

 

[italiahorse]

I am asking about your contradiction.

You keep saying that we need Wasps because without them we would need to move also, now you are saying if they go then things could be potentially better for CCFC as it means there is a chance the club could be linked with the stadium, which makes us better for potential owners.

Like I said, get somebody to untie those knots.

No I'm saying without Wasps we are into the unknown.
CCFC we know can't or won't just take it over.

Therefore we can see a scenario where Wasps go bust (Sisu court intention), ACL then go bust, CCFC move out because they can't offer the market price and refuse to pay a rent to cover. The Ricoh is emptied slowly of all clients and after a few years becomes an empty white elephant.
The complex freehold is then available unencumbered maybe for peanuts.

As I said only a hardened CCFC fan would see this as a plan.
Good luck with supporting through that one.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

If Wasps went pop I wonder if all those people who are just desperate to watch rugby would be heading to the Butts?

No they wouldn't, just in the same way that they never went to the Butts before Wasps arrived. I would expect they would either give it up altogether or possibly come back and watch CCFC sometimes. I am absolutely certain that there are quite a lot of CCFC fans who don't watch us anymore but do go to the Wasps too.

It's a classic case of sleeping with the enemy, and it still baffles me.

 

[Nick]

No I'm saying without Wasps we are into the unknown.
CCFC we know can't or won't just take it over.

Therefore we can see a scenario where Wasps go bust (Sisu court intention), ACL then go bust, CCFC move out because they can't offer the market price and refuse to pay a rent to cover. The Ricoh is emptied slowly of all clients and after a few years becomes an empty white elephant.
The complex freehold is then available unencumbered maybe for peanuts.

As I said only a hardened CCFC fan would see this as a plan.
Good luck with supporting through that one.

I like the way you sidestep and then make something up randomly telling me what I would and wouldn't support.

It's the same as the parking restriction nonsense, "all the people locally would be put out by it, far too much disruption". Turns out that in fact they are making money from it as are Wasps so that's why they wouldn't want the restriction dropping.

Make up your mind one way or the other and get some consistency.

 

[italiahorse]

You keep saying SISU, you completely ignore when people say it would make the club a better prospect to potential buyers who would want it as a package either leased or an option to buy to link the club and the Ricoh together.

Sisu are the owners of the club and have a few old scores to settle first.
They have also wasted a lot of money and that debt apparently becomes less of asset to them if they sell the club.
New owners are not stupid and will want the assets of the the club and not Sisu debt.

As I said it's not ideal at the moment but other options could be a lot worse for the club.

 

[Nick]

Sisu are the owners of the club and have a few old scores to settle first.
They have also wasted a lot of money and that debt apparently becomes less of asset to them if they sell the club.
New owners are not stupid and will want the assets of the the club and not Sisu debt.

As I said it's not ideal at the moment but other options could be a lot worse for the club.

So why did Wasps take on ACL debt? Does that mean they are stupid?

 

[italiahorse]

I like the way you sidestep and then make something up randomly telling me what I would and wouldn't support.

It's the same as the parking restriction nonsense, "all the people locally would be put out by it, far too much disruption". Turns out that in fact they are making money from it as are Wasps so that's why they wouldn't want the restriction dropping.

Make up your mind one way or the other and get some consistency.

The residents will have many reasons not just the one that suits you.
I see on here a few saying fcuk everybody as long as CCFC is given everything.
Very selfish attitude but not the real world.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

They should have new price categories and priorities next season:

1) Season Ticket Holders
2) Members, JSBs, Match Packet Holders
3) General Sale
4) People That Have Been To Watch Wasps

I know it's a bit like Nazi Germany, but...

 

[Nick]

The residents will have many reasons not just the one that suits you.
I see on here a few saying fcuk everybody as long as CCFC is given everything.
Very selfish attitude but not the real world.

I'm not on about what suits me, I am using the reason you just said would be OK if Wasps moved there and increased traffic.... You were the one who said most make money every match.

I just see you too'ing and fro'ing and contradicting yourself as soon as the words CCFC and Wasps get switched in what you say.

 

[italiahorse]

So why did Wasps take on ACL debt? Does that mean they are stupid?

No they came in with an acceptable offer for all parties.
Something Sisu should have lined up when they first took over.

 

[Nick]

No they came in with an acceptable offer for all parties.
Something Sisu should have lined up when they first took over.

That doesn't answer what I said does it?

 

[italiahorse]

They should have new price categories and priorities next season:

1) Season Ticket Holders
2) Members, JSBs, Match Packet Holders
3) General Sale
4) People That Have Been To Watch Wasps

I know it's a bit like Nazi Germany, but...

I'm a season ticket holder for CCFC.
When I bought it I was wearing my 'I hate Wasps' hat.

 

[italiahorse]

That doesn't answer what I said does it?

The debt was part of the deal I mentioned
Remains to be seen if it was stupid to do so.

 

[Nick]

The debt was part of the deal I mentioned
Remains to be seen if it was stupid to do so.

So again, just by changing CCFC for Wasps you do a 180....

 

[italiahorse]

Is this the part where you criticise SISU for moving the club to Northampton but praise Wasps' prudent financial decision making?

We didn't move to Northampton for CCFC financial gain (it cost us). We moved for potential Sisu portfolio gain.

 

[italiahorse]

So again, just by changing CCFC for Wasps you do a 180....

Your doing the substituting.
SISU wouldn't take it on or pay what Wasps paid (TF) so I can't substitute.

 

[Nick]

Your doing the substituting.
SISU wouldn't do it so I can't substitute.

Yes, people change the words around and they watch you do a 180 with exactly the same thing just with a different word in there.

 

[Nick]

We didn't move to Northampton for CCFC financial gain (it cost us). We moved for potential Sisu portfolio gain.

Unlike Richardson's portfolio and chunk of money he got back from mortgaging the Ricoh?

 

[italiahorse]

Unlike Richardson's portfolio and chunk of money he got back from mortgaging the Ricoh?

Yes he messed up as well. In fact he started the whole Ricoh mess.

 

[Nick]

Yes he messed up as well. In fact he started the whole Ricoh mess.

Bit harsh to blame Wasps for everything.

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

Bit harsh to blame Wasps for everything.

It seems only people called Richardson have come out of this well.

 

[italiahorse]

Bit harsh to blame Wasps for everything.

Wasps never got us where we are.
They may be the way out though.

 

[Nick]

Wasps never got us here.
They may be the way out if here though.

You just said they caused it? Make up your mind.

The "they will be our saviour" type crap is nonsense and predictable and was when you made the thread that somebody else typed up for you saying to sit and watch CCFC die so Wasps can pick up the pieces.

 

[italiahorse]

You just said they caused it? Make up your mind.

The "they will be our saviour" type crap is nonsense and predictable and was when you made the thread that somebody else typed up for you saying to sit and watch CCFC die so Wasps can pick up the pieces.

Aha that Richardson. I'm talking about Bryan Richardson

 

[Nick]

Aha that Richardson. I'm talking about Bryan Richardson

Yeah you would be, it will be Anna Ryder-Richardson next if it helps you try and dig your way out of the hole.

 

[italiahorse]

Yeah you would be, it will be Anna Ryder-Richardson next if it helps you try and dig your way out of the hole.

I see. Richardson on a CCFC website is the Wasps Richardson.
I'll try and follow.

 

[Nick]

I see. Richardson on a CCFC website is the Wasps Richardson.
I'll try and follow.

Well yes, I think it would be pretty obvious to anybody who reads it who I meant.

Sorry if you get confused while tangled up in your own nonsense.

 

[italiahorse]

Well yes, I think it would be pretty obvious to anybody who reads it who I meant.

What mortgage then ? Confused me.

 

[Nick]

What mortgage then ? Confused me.

The money raised against the Stadium, where he paid himself back....

Now, let's imagine SISU got the Ricoh and then raised finance against it to pay themselves back £10m....

 

[italiahorse]

The money raised against the Stadium, where he paid himself back....

Now, let's imagine SISU got the Ricoh and then raised finance against it to pay themselves back £10m....

It would have been fine with me at one point, but in reality they never really had a plan or the ability to finance a bond.

Financial head on not sky blue glasses, would you buy a Wasps bond or a Sisu bond ?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

We didn't move to Northampton for CCFC financial gain (it cost us). We moved for potential Sisu portfolio gain.

And Wasps moved for the benefit of MGI Fiduciary Services in Malta.