Stand up if you've never watched Wasps (12 Viewers)

[Nick]

It would have been fine with me at one point, but in reality they never really had a plan or the ability to finance a bond.

Financial head on not sky blue glasses, would you buy a Wasps bond or a Sisu bond ?

I wouldn't buy either, they are both as shady as each other it seems.

We know it would have been fine by you at one point but I am talking about now, not the time when you were demanding that everybody backed SISU.

 

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[italiahorse]

And Wasps moved for the benefit of MGI Fiduciary Services in Malta.

In my mind it doesn't matter if the owners gain as long as the fans/club gain as well.
We can argue if the fans gained on the move but crowd numbers is one guide.

 

[italiahorse]

I wouldn't buy either, they are both as shady as each other it seems.

We know it would have been fine by you at one point but I am talking about now, not the time when you were demanding that everybody backed SISU.

Take your SB glasses off and answer the question financially or at least agree a SISU bond issue would not raise £35M

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

In my mind it doesn't matter if the owners gain as long as the fans/club gain as well.
We can argue if the fans gained on the move but crowd numbers is one guide.

My point to you is that had MGI Fiduciary Services not swooped then we may well have brought the football club and stadium under the same management and we as fans would have benefitted from that arrangement. But this is the problem with you, you struggle to hold both to the same standards.

 

[Nick]

Take your SB glasses off and answer the question financially or at least agree a SISU bond issue would not raise £35M

I am saying financially.

Do you mean the Wasps who keep also having administration and accounting errors?

Like I said, I wouldn't trust either.

 

[italiahorse]

I am saying financially.

Do you mean the Wasps who keep also having administration and accounting errors?

Like I said, I wouldn't trust either.

Look at the share price not the admin errors. That might help.
It's not difficult to answer.
6.5% and your money back ?

 

[Nick]

Look at the share price not the admin errors. That might help.
It's not difficult to answer.
6.5% and your money back ?

I know it isn't difficult to answer, you asked me who I would invest with and I said neither as they are both shady.

Still, it gets you away from the discussion like it did when you "thought" I meant Bryan Richardson.

 

[italiahorse]

My point to you is that had MGI Fiduciary Services not swooped then we may well have brought the football club and stadium under the same management and we as fans would have benefitted from that arrangement. But this is the problem with you, you struggle to hold both to the same standards.

No I understand the issue here from a CCFC fans point of view.
If the Sisu move to Northampton had eventually turned the Ricoh into a ghost town and dropped its freehold value towards nil. Then ....
Sisu could have taken it on as owners of CCFC and all that would have happened is CCC lost an asset of £100M.
Club and Stadium both owned by SIsu. Yippee

But I also see it from CCC/Rate payers point of view.
Wasps definitely stopped this happening.

 

[italiahorse]

I know it isn't difficult to answer, you asked me who I would invest with and I said neither as they are both shady.

Still, it gets you away from the discussion like it did when you "thought" I meant Bryan Richardson.

Hardly a discussion that matters to anyone but you ?

 

[Nick]

Hardly a discussion that matters to anyone but you ?

It obviously does, as you are the one who brings something up, gets your point directed back at you with a simple word change and then you get all flustered because you aren't consistent.

 

[italiahorse]

It obviously does, as you are the one who brings something up, gets your point directed back at you with a simple word change and then you get all flustered because you aren't consistent.

You brought Richardson strangely into the discussion mentioning some unknown mortgage, I assumed you meant Bryan when you didn't.
Move on, your stopping me giving important information out to the ill informed.

 

[Nick]

You brought Richardson strangely into the discussion mentioning some unknown mortgage, I assumed you meant Bryan when you didn't.
Move on, your stopping me giving important information out to the ill informed.

He was brought into the discussion because I just turned something around on you, like every other time.

Was that the same as the important info you gave out that everybody should get behind SISU and to let CCFC die so Wasps can save them?

 

[italiahorse]

He was brought into the discussion because I just turned something around on you, like every other time.

Was that the same as the important info you gave out that everybody should get behind SISU and to let CCFC die so Wasps can save them?

You keep changing the discussion round. As here again with another random discussion I raised on something else.
I can't keep up, it's like receiving junk emails you can't stop.

 

[Nick]

You keep changing the discussion round. As here again with another random discussion I raised on something else.
I can't keep up, it's like receiving junk emails you can't stop.

Yes, because everytime you say something about CCFC or Wasps people turn it on you and you completely change how you reply. It isn't rocket science.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

No I understand the issue here from a CCFC fans point of view.
If the Sisu move to Northampton had eventually turned the Ricoh into a ghost town and dropped its freehold value towards nil. Then ....
Sisu could have taken it on as owners of CCFC and all that would have happened is CCC lost an asset of £100M.
Club and Stadium both owned by SIsu. Yippee

But I also see it from CCC/Rate payers point of view.
Wasps definitely stopped this happening.

From CCC's point of view there was the chance to get a photo with James Haskell. The freehold means nothing if the stadium isn't a success and that is now ultimately in the hands of a series of offshore holding companies. Sound familiar?

The ratepayers will be content as long as the franchise freebies keep flowing. The Coventry public are a very fickle one though, so if Wasps fail they will leave them high and dry like they did the football club (until we get MK Dons away).

 

[chiefdave]

That's how I see it because Sisu are still here and won't/can't buy the stadium.

SISU won't be here for ever which seems to be the point you conveniently ignore. If can or would buy the stadium is purely your opinion but they wouldn't even need to buy the stadium. Leasing the stadium with an option to buy, which a future owner could take up, would make us a far more attractive prospect for a takeover.

New buyers need to satisfy Sisu debt expectations which are unrealistic.

More chance of an offer SISU deem acceptable for club and stadium than for a club without any prospect of owning the stadium they play in.

Why would a new buyer of the club not also build a new stadium. Surely a stadium bowl would be cheaper for the club than buying the whole Ricoh complex ?

​

Wasps paid less than £7m. If Fisher was on CWR tonight saying a new CCFC stadium could be built for less than that you'd be a the front of the queue to call him an idiot.

I've been studying the Wasps 150 year History book

How many of those 150 years did the 'nomadic' club spend in and around London?

Hardened CCFC fans will see that as fair but obviously CCC and ratepayers see it different and hence why Wasps are here.

​

You must be joking. It was sold to Wasps on the cheap without a thought about local taxpayers.

I see on here a few saying fcuk everybody as long as CCFC is given everything.
Very selfish attitude but not the real world.

You much prefer the attitude fcuk everybody, including CCFC, as long as Wasps are given everything.

We didn't move to Northampton for CCFC financial gain (it cost us). We moved for potential Sisu portfolio gain.

Even Eastwood has now admitted Wasps move was for financial gain. Remember the real estate business with a rugby club on the side comments?

We can argue if the fans gained on the move but crowd numbers is one guide.

There you have it. Lets say the FL decide to expand and SISU get the opportunity to move the club to Belfast as long as the people of Belfast turn up you would support the club being moved away and the local fans screwed over.
​

 

[italiahorse]

SISU won't be here for ever which seems to be the point you conveniently ignore. If can or would buy the stadium is purely your opinion but they wouldn't even need to buy the stadium. Leasing the stadium with an option to buy, which a future owner could take up, would make us a far more attractive prospect for a takeover.
Sisu say they won't pay what Wasps paid for the lease. IMHO we would have stayed in Northampton if Wasps were mot on their way. Getting to the position you mention here would be the problem. Thats why I ignore it.
More chance of an offer SISU deem acceptable for club and stadium than for a club without any prospect of owning the stadium they play in.

But Sisu debt would be the issue. ​

Wasps paid less than £7m. If Fisher was on CWR tonight saying a new CCFC stadium could be built for less than that you'd be a the front of the queue to call him an idiot.

We were on about ownership.
How many of those 150 years did the 'nomadic' club spend in and around London?
Most of it. ​

You must be joking. It was sold to Wasps on the cheap without a thought about local taxpayers.
It improved the situation
You much prefer the attitude fcuk everybody, including CCFC, as long as Wasps are given everything.
It improved the situation. CCFC are still here renting as they were before. If Sisu fkuc off we can get buy into the stadium.
Even Eastwood has now admitted Wasps move was for financial gain. Remember the real estate business with a rugby club on the side comments?
As I said, the fans don't care as long as the club is doing well
There you have it. Lets say the FL decide to expand and SISU get the opportunity to move the club to Belfast as long as the people of Belfast turn up you would support the club being moved away and the local fans screwed over.
Hyperthetical and nobody would travel. CCFC don't have to move. In fact from where we sit in L2 this is a safe option. If we ever got back to the PL the stadium is unimportant. The problem is getting there and that relies on getting a good deal when Sisu leave. ​

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The fans indeed don't care as long as the club does well. But when it starts to go tits up for Wasps and the lease is held by an obscure business in Malta, we will be ultimately be back where we were in 2014.

Continuing to dish out freebies like nobody's business 4 years on-was it worth it Nick Eastwood?

 

[italiahorse]

The fans indeed don't care as long as the club does well. But when it starts to go tits up for Wasps and the lease is held by an obscure business in Malta, we will be ultimately be back where we were in 2014.

Continuing to dish out freebies like nobody's business 4 years on-was it worth it Nick Eastwood?

I don't think we can laugh about dishing out freebies after the embarrassment of announcing 28,500 recently.
Also we can't talk about fans leaving when it goes tits up, as we have gone tits up and the fans did.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I don't think we can laugh about dishing out freebies after the embarrassment of announcing 28,500 recently.
Also we can't talk about fans leaving when it goes tits up, as we have gone tits up and the fans did.

I don't find either funny I find both a sad indication of a) where the club finds itself and b) the fickle mindedness of the general public. But let's be clear, Wasps have had everything stacked in their favour for 4 years and still need freebies to keep the numbers looking OK. That doesn't amuse me when they are in the hands of an obscure financial conglomerate like ourselves.

 

[italiahorse]

I don't find either funny I find both a sad indication of a) where the club finds itself and b) the fickle mindedness of the general public. But let's be clear, Wasps have had everything stacked in their favour for 4 years and still need freebies to keep the numbers looking OK. That doesn't amuse me when they are in the hands of an obscure financial conglomerate like ourselves.

Wasps have taken a big risk and in my mind they have survived the first few years very well.
Everybody does freebies but how you can make the assumption they need them when you have no idea of the numbers is a bit hopeful.
The backstop on this though is that they have access to all the incomes taken at the Ricoh on match days, free entry or not.
Something we had 50% of yet unfortunately had to give up.

 

[Grendel]

Wasps have taken a big risk and in my mind they have survived the first few years very well.
Everybody does freebies but how you can make the assumption they need them when you have no idea of the numbers is a bit hopeful.
The backstop on this though is that they have access to all the incomes taken at the Ricoh on match days, free entry or not.
Something we had 50% of yet unfortunately had to give up.

How much did they pay for those revenues?

 

[italiahorse]

How much did they pay for those revenues?

Don't they get paid by the catering company and then take a percentage?

 

[Grendel]

Don't they get paid by the catering company and then take a percentage?

So they don’t pay £24 million then?

 

[italiahorse]

So they don’t pay £24 million then?

They already have bought the facilities at the stadium so they don't need to.
You don't get given 'incomes' you need to buy into them.
Don't know what the £24M you're waffling on about is.

 

[Grendel]

They already have bought the facilities at the stadium so they don't need to.
You don't get given 'incomes' you need to buy into them.
Don't know what the £24M you're waffling on about is.

And the conversation definitely happened.

Sky Blue Trust - Full Version of Q&A to ACL and CCFC
How much did wasps pay to buy into those rights?

 

[italiahorse]

And the conversation definitely happened.

Sky Blue Trust - Full Version of Q&A to ACL and CCFC
How much did wasps pay to buy into those rights?

It was a Fisher comment for what it's worth.
Besides ACL can't allocate the revenue streams they don't own them, Compass do.

Haha - £45M written off by Sisu.
Why do you entertain this fool ?

Point 29 shows where it was really going with Sisu already having analysed it.

 

[Grendel]

It was a Fisher comment.
ACL can't allocate the revenue streams they don't own them, Compass do.

No they don’t it’s a separate company which they are a shareholder in and yeah he said it.

Ever met him?

 

[italiahorse]

No they don’t it’s a separate company which they are a shareholder in and yeah he said it.

Ever met him?

Once when the pompous tw*t walked his dog through the hotel before his Sixfields explanation.
Is it you ?

 

[Grendel]

Once when the pompous tw*t walked his dog through the hotel before his Sixfields explanation.
Is it you ?

I’m talking about Gidney as you well know. Also as a few posts up you quoted fisher as saying they would not do the deal that was offered to wasps you would also accept as fact that the conversation with Gidney happened. Which it did.

How’s that finance director of wasps these days - can’t recall his name - who told you a few months ago to start posting on here again by the way?

 

[italiahorse]

I’m talking about Gidney as you well know. Also as a few posts up you quoted fisher as saying they would not do the deal that was offered to wasps you would also accept as fact that the conversation with Gidney happened. Which it did.

How’s that finance director of wasps these days - can’t recall his name - who told you a few months ago to start posting on here again by the way?

Fisher quoted to the press that they wouldn't pay it.
Who did Gidney quote it to ?
Fisher ?

 

[italiahorse]

How’s that finance director of wasps these days - can’t recall his name - who told you a few months ago to start posting on here again by the way?

Robyn Hudd ? Yes he's okay and says I can continue posting until Euro touring starts again.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Wasps have taken a big risk and in my mind they have survived the first few years very well.
Everybody does freebies but how you can make the assumption they need them when you have no idea of the numbers is a bit hopeful.
The backstop on this though is that they have access to all the incomes taken at the Ricoh on match days, free entry or not.
Something we had 50% of yet unfortunately had to give up.

They have access to our match day income as well even though they can't maintain the pitch. I repeat, they have everything stacked in their favour. Piles of publicity from the council desperate for the gamble to succeed, money coming in from our games as well as theirs, the ability to throw piles of freebies at the public for years and so on.

Most of all, they have people like you who celebrate everything they do even though it permanently screws a team who have been here far longer and will be after Wasps fuck off.

 

[italiahorse]

They have access to our match day income as well even though they can't maintain the pitch. I repeat, they have everything stacked in their favour. Piles of publicity from the council desperate for the gamble to succeed, money coming in from our games as well as theirs, the ability to throw piles of freebies at the public for years and so on.

Most of all, they have people like you who celebrate everything they do even though it permanently screws a team who have been here far longer and will be after Wasps fuck off.

We do get half of Wasps cut on the day and I think it equates to £75K a year.
We pay a bargain £100K a year for renting the arena. (Long may it last)
Piles of freebies ? Do you know how many ? Your comment assumes you know.
Pitch could be better but what we don't want is Wasps to consider a fully artificial pitch as being more cost effective. To be honest the pitch seems to suit us from the results on it.
To get hold of more incomes the club need to buy into them. How that works with compass is unknown.
This will form part of a long term deal once legals and maybe Sisu have gone.
We were screwed long before Wasps came.

 

[Nick]

We do get half of Wasps cut on the day and I think it equates to £75K a year.
We pay a bargain £100K a year for renting the arena. (Long may it last)
Piles of freebies ? Do you know how many ? Your comment assumes you know.
Pitch could be better but what we don't want is Wasps to consider a fully artificial pitch as being more cost effective. To be honest the pitch seems to suit us from the results on it.
To get hold of more incomes the club need to buy into them. How that works with compass is unknown.
This will form part of a long term deal once legals and maybe Sisu have gone.
We were screwed long before Wasps came.

What about Matchday Costs, it isn't a flat £100k and that's it is it?