Safe Standing ? (2 Viewers)

[Specs WT-R75]

Wouldn't fancy being crammed in like that, I like my personal space.

No one forces you. It's about choice. If you want a seat to yourself then you don't buy in the safe-standing area. Similarly, when it is a game where standing isn't allowed you can still sell the seat on 1:1 basis. Only 1 person can buy the season ticket in the safe standing zone, the other 0.8 are sold on a game by game basis.

 

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[Ring Of Steel]

Would be interesting to know...

Those who were born after about 1980 so have no real memory of regularly standing at games- given the choice now, would you stand or sit? I'm guessing Nick would sit?

I'm an old codger at 43 and I'd be standing without a doubt, it was a different world standing, the closest thing to it would be the old West Terrace

 

[M&B Stand]

Just to be clear, they don’t use ‘rail seating’ at Dortmund.
It’s well stewarded and organised. Sadly won’t happen here anytime soon.

 

[ceetee]

Although I'm 75 I don't mind standing at away games (I don't go to that many) because that's the culture and I respect it and don't have to go.
What I object to is people wanting to stand in places where there are clearly people who expect to sit down. For that reason I support safe standing areas if that segregates the sitters from the standers.

My only concern is that the problems which led to standing being banned were not the fault of standing as such but of uncontrolled access. Seating generally solves that problem although I'm sure we have all found people in our seats who think they have the right to sit anywhere. I worry that such people might force themselves into standing areas even though they don't have the right tickets. It would have to be very strictly policed.

 

[SkyBlueSoul]

Yep, spot on- Shrewsbury have shoehorned it in after the fact- looks wrong and will feel wrong. I actually have no clue why they've done it- its not as if they urgently need higher capacity and its a half arsed job they've done at best.

You're right that it's a bit pointless and looks shit but you've got to start somewhere. If it works and the authorities start to realise this, it may slowly lead to it being done properly elsewhere

 

[rupert_bear]

Not for or against really, I would expect any standing area to be ticket only, as pointed out it would be a choice and those who choose to sit would be made to

 

[Warwickhunt]

At the minute it's about respecting the people around you, I have no issue with either standing or sitting if need's be. At MK Dons away there were a fair few old people who couldn't stand all game and missed what was going on because of people standing in front of them.

However if everybody at the front stands up, people behind them stand up etc.

And they will stand at Wembley like last year's checkatrade my hips are fucked and I found it fustrating being told to fuck off because I told them in front to sit down. If they did standing and charged £25 then fine if that's what you want but when you pay £46 to stand it's no joke

 

[Nick]

And they will stand at Wembley like last year's checkatrade my hips are fucked and I found it fustrating being told to fuck off because I told them in front to sit down. If they did standing and charged £25 then fine if that's what you want but when you pay £46 to stand it's no joke

this is where the stewards should have a word.

 

[Evo1883]

at Accrington this season we couldn’t move in the standing section , but it never once felt dangerous as the maximum capacity was taken .
There is no problem as long as you are not putting 3000 /4000 people in a 1000 people section of the stadium nothing bad will come of it

 

[oscillatewildly]

Always stood myself until it all changed after the Hillsboro tragedy. That’s nearly 30 years ago many fans now have hardly stood on
a terrace. Don’t think they would ever go back to pack ‘em in like sardines strategy. The best thing about standing is you can move away from the obnoxious, pissed up knob, doing your nut in.

I can honestly say the time we played Burton away (televised on a Sunday, we won 2-1) The away end was sardinesville. Very small end, granted but it was jam packed.

 

[rupert_bear]

I can honestly say the time we played Burton away (televised on a Sunday, we won 2-1) The away end was sardinesville. Very small end, granted but it was jam packed.

Was 100% safe?

 

[pusbccfc]

Surely it is 1 person to one of the "seats"? You aren't going to fit 2 people per seat in there.

Looks immense. Fair play to them.

 

[oscillatewildly]

Was 100% safe?

Yes, don't recall there being any incident. Do recall a few people moving away from directly behind the goal when it did get very compact tho

 

[Peter Billing Eyes]

I'm really for safe standing and want to see all clubs have it. Being on a terrace in Germany was probably one of the best football experiences I have ever had.

I think it needs to be at the front though. I feel as if they have put it the wrong way round here? If it was going to be at the Ricoh they should do it behind one of the goals, bottom half for example.

Here's a video of Shrewsbury:

The problem with having safe standing at the front of an existing stadium is they would have to reprofile the risers at the back of the stand otherwise the people sitting at the back wouldn’t be able to see past the people standing in front of them. The reason Celtic have created a corner section is to do with sight lines. If you have a standing section behind the goal, the people sat in the corners can’t see the goalmouth. The only way to address this successfully would be to have a whole section behind the goal including the corners for standing spectators.

 

[Joy Division]

It would look shit though, and I don't think the atmosphere would be as good.

You wouldn't lose that many seats at all so I think it would be worth it.

If people are in agreement that the atmosphere at German games is better, then replicate that. This back to front stuff isn't right in my opinion.

Like I say, to make standing at the front work at the Ricoh you'd have to spend millions on an architectural rebuild to make it work or else it would look worse than having standing at the back.

 

[ccfcrob]

Looks immense. Fair play to them.

Wont be if they get promoted though as they will have to remove it.

 

[ccfcrob]

Ed Balls did a piece on safe standing during Watchdog last night. Worth a watch on Iplayer.

 

[standupforcity]

I honestly can't see why anybody would have a problem with it.

Bureaucracy....and it'll take time! It's like VAR...the reason the FA won't employ the method used in Rugby, which is so simple , straight forward and obvious, is because they want to develop a method exclusive to football...which they think will improve on the system. Crazy right...already a total shambles! Getting safe standing approved across the board will take a while, even though we all know it's the right thing to do!

 

[cov soul]

don't go back too the dark ages. far safer with seating.

 

[MusicDating]

don't go back too the dark ages. far safer with seating.

Why is employing the latest technology as a seating solution 'the dark ages'?

 

[Liquid Gold]

don't go back too the dark ages. far safer with seating.

Do you have any idea what the system is? Nobody is suggesting going back to terraces.

 

[Houchens Head]

Would be interesting to know...

Those who were born after about 1980 so have no real memory of regularly standing at games- given the choice now, would you stand or sit? I'm guessing Nick would sit?

I'm an old codger at 43 and I'd be standing without a doubt, it was a different world standing, the closest thing to it would be the old West Terrace

Old?? 43?? Jeez! I dream of being a nice young age of 43! I've got 22 years on you and believe me, I feel it!
:emoji_tired_face:

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Like I say, to make standing at the front work at the Ricoh you'd have to spend millions on an architectural rebuild to make it work or else it would look worse than having standing at the back.

How would you have to spend millions? I also think an architectural rebuild is a bit over the top.

 

[Joy Division]

How would you have to spend millions? I also think an architectural rebuild is a bit over the top.

So are you saying keep a row of seats directly behind the safe standing row? Either you need to completely remove 4 or 5 rows of seats along the whole width of the standing section (would look terrible) or reprofile the grading of the rake of the stand to create better sight lines. Unfortunately that would cost millions.

All stadiums have to adhere to the Green Guide, have a read if you like.
http://www.safetyatsportsgrounds.org.uk/sites/default/files/publications/green-guide.pdf

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

So are you saying keep a row of seats directly behind the safe standing row? Either you need to completely remove 4 or 5 rows of seats along the whole width of the standing section (would look terrible) or reprofile the grading of the rake of the stand to create better sight lines. Unfortunately that would cost millions.

All stadiums have to adhere to the Green Guide, have a read if you like.
http://www.safetyatsportsgrounds.org.uk/sites/default/files/publications/green-guide.pdf

Obviously remove a row of seats or 4 or 5, that isn't the point.

The point that you would need to alter the whole architecture costing millions to do this is nonsense. Look at this picture. If everyone in the front half was stood up you could still easily see. A mid section with a gap would be absolutely fine, and with a bit of decoration would look 100 times better than what Shrewsbury have done.

 

[Joy Division]

Obviously remove a row of seats or 4 or 5, that isn't the point.

The point that you would need to alter the whole architecture costing millions to do this is nonsense. Look at this picture. If everyone in the front half was stood up you could still easily see. A mid section with a gap would be absolutely fine, and with a bit of decoration would look 100 times better than what Shrewsbury have done.

Of course, posting a picture from the back of the stadium doesn't prove your point.

I said 'either' remove a number of rows of seats directly behind or pay for re-profiling, not both. Removing rows of seats to keep it empty would look amateur, cheap and unfinished. Not that I'm a fan of the Shrewsbury layout either, to make it work that's the only way it could happen.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Of course, posting a picture from the back of the stadium doesn't prove your point.

I said 'either' remove a number of rows of seats directly behind or pay for re-profiling, not both. Removing rows of seats to keep it empty would look amateur, cheap and unfinished. Not that I'm a fan of the Shrewsbury layout either, to make it work that's the only way it could happen.

It clearly isn't the only way to make it work. You've got this stuck in your head and are completely unable to budge on this.

Option 1) Put the rail seats at the back like Shrewsbury. It looks really poor, back to front, and the noise would be coming from completely the wrong place. I would personally not have any standing area if it was to look like this.

Option 2) Do an 'architectural structure change' and put the rail seats at the front. This costs 'millions' so not an option.

Option 3) Put the rail seats at the front, leaving a gap between where the rail seats end and the seating area begins. This would make sense and the empty gap in between could be decorated with something relevant to the club.

3 or 4 empty rows would not look amateur if the space was filled correctly. Even if it was left empty and ugly, it would still look heaps better than Shrewsbury, meaning the option of having it at the back would be worse. It would also be considerably cheaper than an 'architectural structure change'.

It wins out of the three options for me.

 

[shmmeee]

Would be interesting to know...

Those who were born after about 1980 so have no real memory of regularly standing at games- given the choice now, would you stand or sit? I'm guessing Nick would sit?

I'm an old codger at 43 and I'd be standing without a doubt, it was a different world standing, the closest thing to it would be the old West Terrace

37 and Id sit. But I do have a dodgy back. Otherwise would probably stand if I was in a singing section. If it’s just a dull home game where I get bored and everyone is quiet probably sit.

 

[Rodders1]

I’m all for it - put a big block behind the goal at the Ricoh. Front to back row. The end where jimmy hill is. The atmosphere would be fantastic. The fans are not at risk, as they have allocated areas. In fact it would probably increase attendances a lot. I think one of my first posts on this forum was discussing how good it would be!

 

[DionDublinsJockstrap]

It was cheaper to stand - I'm in!

Oh hang on I've forgotten how football works these days - probably be a premium!

 

[Joy Division]

It clearly isn't the only way to make it work. You've got this stuck in your head and are completely unable to budge on this.

Option 1) Put the rail seats at the back like Shrewsbury. It looks really poor, back to front, and the noise would be coming from completely the wrong place. I would personally not have any standing area if it was to look like this.

Option 2) Do an 'architectural structure change' and put the rail seats at the front. This costs 'millions' so not an option.

Option 3) Put the rail seats at the front, leaving a gap between where the rail seats end and the seating area begins. This would make sense and the empty gap in between could be decorated with something relevant to the club.

3 or 4 empty rows would not look amateur if the space was filled correctly. Even if it was left empty and ugly, it would still look heaps better than Shrewsbury, meaning the option of having it at the back would be worse. It would also be considerably cheaper than an 'architectural structure change'.

It wins out of the three options for me.

You do realise I've not actually said we 'should' have a structural redesign, it was me that pointed out to you it would cost millions. I said that would be the only option if you didn't want to have the seats directly behind the standing section removed. Personally I think that wouldn't look that great from a visual viewpoint and from a design aspect but if you think it would then fair enough. Totally understand it's your own vision but to say I'm unable to understand something and my input nonsense relating to this subject is a bit off.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

You do realise I've not actually said we 'should' have a structural redesign, it was me that pointed out to you it would cost millions. I said that would be the only option if you didn't want to have the seats directly behind the standing section removed. Personally I think that wouldn't look that great from a visual viewpoint and from a design aspect but if you think it would then fair enough. Totally understand it's your own vision but to say I'm unable to understand something and my input nonsense relating to this subject is a bit off.

You can play mental gymnastics all you want, but I put an idea on here which you promptly shot down mainly because it seems you don't like the idea rather than actually having sound arguments for why it wouldn't work.

As I have said, there are many ways to do it, all have flaws, but I think the option 3 I suggested above is probably the better one. That's fine if you don't think that, but don't come on here and try to shoot me down and then play the victim all of a sudden when I defend myself.

 

[Joy Division]

You can play mental gymnastics all you want, but I put an idea on here which you promptly shot down mainly because it seems you don't like the idea rather than actually having sound arguments for why it wouldn't work.

As I have said, there are many ways to do it, all have flaws, but I think the option 3 I suggested above is probably the better one. That's fine if you don't think that, but don't come on here and try to shoot me down and then play the victim all of a sudden when I defend myself.

What on earth are you talking about mental gymnastics? I've just given you facts, and I've not shot you down anywhere.
No victim playing here, just think its a bit strange you trying to lecture me about a subject that I've worked projects on for the past 10 years, though I guess according to you I fail to understand the subject and my input is nonsense. That's fine.

 

[Brylowes]

Being 49 I used to stand at Highfield Rd and plenty of other grounds, two thirds
Of the capacity at HR and most other grounds would have been made up from
Standing areas.
I can’t really remember any issues or injuries bought about as a consequence
Of terraces, of course there was Hillsboro ‘but you have to remember the main
Causes that day we’re the police opening the wrong gate and the 9ft fences
At the front leaving no means of escape.