Tommy Robinson (48 Viewers)

[Captain Dart]

Recent statistics on this are annoyingly hard to come by so I don't know the proportions. It is great though that 'Robinson' wants to take a stand against sexual assault, but you must admit it's awkward that he only focuses on the cases committed by a demographic he has an inherent problem with. I am still yet to see a Muslim stab an MP to death in the street...

That's because the guy who tried to get into parliament was stopped by an unarmed copper, who he killed.

 

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[Grendel]

Enlighten me

You list of a lot of other sectors of society and individuals who commit crimes but miss the point that this, to my knowledge, is the only one that is 100% racist.

The crimes are only targeted at white young women as the element of society that commits the crimes views these individuals as evil and an affront to their religious and moral code.

So the problem needs to be acknowledged by all and dealt with. By constantly trying to divert to other incidents and other religions you miss this basic point. People who say this such as Sarah Campion are held to account and branded racist which is laughable. Until this is seen for what it actually is and why it’s committed their will be anger and frustration which is meat and drink to Mr Robinson and his wider agenda.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

You list of a lot of other sectors of society and individuals who commit crimes but miss the point that this, to my knowledge, is the only one that is 100% racist.

The crimes are only targeted at white young women as the element of society that commits the crimes views these individuals as evil and an affront to their religious and moral code.

So the problem needs to be acknowledged by all and dealt with. By constantly trying to divert to other incidents and other religions you miss this basic point. People who say this such as Sarah Campion are held to account and branded racist which is laughable. Until this is seen for what it actually is and why it’s committed their will be anger and frustration which is meat and drink to Mr Robinson and his wider agenda.

As has been pointed out there is a broader problem with harassment of young women from both Muslims who are affronted by a flash of leg and from white men who can't keep it in their pants. Anti-Muslim hate crimes are by their nature 100% racist and you can't ignore the huge spike in these incidents. Nor can we ignore awkward truths about stop and search for black people being disproportionately high.

Robinson came to the conclusion in his head that Islam and therefore Muslims are inferior to him and tries finding evidence to support it, not the other way round. It isn't mutually exclusive to call him out as well as problems in the Muslim community.

 

[Grendel]

As has been pointed out there is a broader problem with harassment of young women from both Muslims who are affronted by a flash of leg and from white men who can't keep it in their pants. Anti-Muslim hate crimes are by their nature 100% racist and you can't ignore the huge spike in these incidents. Nor can we ignore awkward truths about stop and search for black people being disproportionately high.

Robinson came to the conclusion in his head that Islam and therefore Muslims are inferior to him and tries finding evidence to support it, not the other way round. It isn't mutually exclusive to call him out as well as problems in the Muslim community.

Again you cannot bring yourself to admit they are racist in the extreme

Tommy Robinson will be punching the air with delight at your post - you ensure he will still have a voice.

 

[Sick Boy]

Yes, as I have said, everyone knows sexual abusers can come from any background.

Just to take that point. If this was on the trial of a bunch of catholics, would there be so many people making excuses for them as per this thread?

I think not I'm afraid.

Who is making excuses?

 

[covcity4life]

racist bigot who is becoming a martyr to the uneducated woe is me chavs

 

[wingy]

As I said earlier there appears to be a racial element to it, proving that is not straight forward.
The religious side doesn't fully Wash with me as they are in no way model Muslims .
Elements of Islamic teachings no doubt seep into the Cultural conciousness covertly through the parochial hierarchy .
It would be enlightening to learn or know of examples of similar behaviour within their own community, is that covered up, don't shit on your own doorstep, non existant?
Does their target fit a vulnerable easy to manipulate ,overlooked white adolescants?
Is there individual paedophile activity within their own community, rape etc, absolutely.
My take they are second to third generation who have a hankering for some western values frowned upon in their religion who targeted vulnerable adolescant white girls who would go under the radar.
If you look to the sub-continent there are many much more violent examples of hideous crimes on women, children Involving violent sexual and mortal undertones .
I don't think they are exclusive to one religion so again I go more towards parochial/Cultural attitudes .
I absolutely agree an honest debate has to be had.
I however become nervous for other members of this community or others who are faced with generalist Quotes ,attitudes, Numbers, percentages etc brought on them when the simple truth is the guilty No among them are miniscule.
17 cases x@notional 20 perpetrators.
The question again reverts to the failures of the authorities blindsiding instead of being open .

 

[Deleted member 5849]

By constantly trying to divert to other incidents

Again you cannot bring yourself to admit they are racist in the extreme

Tommy Robinson will be punching the air with delight at your post - you ensure he will still have a voice.

Of course, Robinson himself has managed to divert attention hasn't he. He's now the story, rather than some vile scum getting their cummupance.

 

[duffer]

Without wishing to stir all this up again, here's a pretty detailed legal explanation of why Tommy Robinson (or whatever his name is) is back in jail again today.

Have a read if you've time - I think it explains quite well why it's not a nefarious plot by our evil lizard overlords to silence the moderate and reasonable voice of free speech.

 

[Cov City Daytrader 87]

Looks like

Without wishing to stir all this up again, here's a pretty detailed legal explanation of why Tommy Robinson (or whatever his name is) is back in jail again today.

Have a read if you've time - I think it explains quite well why it's not a nefarious plot by our evil lizard overlords to silence the moderate and reasonable voice of free speech.

Youtuber Richie Allen has a take this and it's probably similar to what the article states:

 

[Sick Boy]

racist bigot who is becoming a martyr to the uneducated woe is me chavs

The only person I actually know who likes him in real life is a smug 21 year old who lives at home with his mum and has only ever left the country once to go on a day trip to France.

Says it all really.

 

[Westendlad]

The only person I actually know who likes him in real life is a smug 21 year old who lives at home with his mum and has only ever left the country once to go on a day trip to France.

Says it all really.

Wasn't going to comment anymore on this (far too many lefties) but...............LOL

 

[Sick Boy]

Wasn't going to comment anymore on this (far too many lefties) but...............LOL

Yeah I know he also thinks anyone who doesn't have far right sympathies is a 'lefty' LOL!

I used to know more years ago but they were the sort who'd use the word Paki in everyday language, again LOL!

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Going to start a game of leftie bingo I reckon.

 

[covcity4life]

The only person I actually know who likes him in real life is a smug 21 year old who lives at home with his mum and has only ever left the country once to go on a day trip to France.

Says it all really.

funny i agree but he is becoming an idol of sort to idiot kids who dont know any better

worrying times

if trump can be president....

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

funny i agree but he is becoming an idol of sort to idiot kids who dont know any better

worrying times

if trump can be president....

Trump winning and TR being popular is probably closer connected than most people think.

A vacuum has been created by the elite class who do not wish to listen to normal people with genuine concerns. When this happens people reject them. Trump winning only happened as an anti-Hillary thing, and people support TR because the government wish to silence him and anyone else who dares to voice their concerns over something a lot of people have worries about.

 

[chiefdave]

The authorities have been covering these things up but this case did have some details released. These details TR broadcast.

The only reason he had to do that was because the wider media were not interested. Ask yourself, why is that?

It was reported in the wider media, I've provided several links in this thread. Its not being reported on currently as there has been restrictions in place since they were charged at their initial court appearance.

Given that there has been, and if past experience is anything to go by, undoubtedly will be further coverage on completion what exactly is TR exposing?

What other mainstream media covered that trial? Absolutely none. It's a common theme and it's reinforced by the authorities who are scared of being called racist and have openly admitted they have swept previous incidents under the carpet.

​

You pick out a few articles of trials that have actually been covered and think you've won a losing argument, but the truth is far from that. If you really think Muslim grooming gangs are being covered openly and honestly then that's quite honestly pretty naive.

You're claiming no mainstream media have covered it but I've given you links to, among others, the BBC and Mail. As mainstream as you can get.

It's already been said that he doesn't like Islam which fuels part of his actions, but agree with that or not; The Muslim population of Britain is about 5%. Why are they involved in so many sexual abuse scandals, many that have been covered up? It should be flagged up. He might be biased but he's the only one with balls big enough to bring it to our attention.

Figured I might as well look at the data myself.

The last census was in 2011 and shows the Muslim population of Britain as 2,786,635, 4.4% of the total population. It could well be 5% by now as the influx of refugees will have increased the numbers.

Finding figures for offences by Muslims is difficult as the CPS don't record any stats by religion. You have to go off ethnicity and even then there's not a whole lot of data.

The 2011 CEOP study breaks down grooming gangs as 30% white, 28% Asian 3% black and 38% unknown which doesn't really show much with so many unknown although the study suggests non white ethnicity is more likely to be recorded.

A further study by the CEOP had grooming gangs targeting vulnerable children as 75% Asian, 17% white, 5% black and 3% Arab. That same study had grooming gangs targeting children due to sexual interest as 100% white.

Another study by the government stated 36% of grooming gangs were white, 27% Asian, 16% black and 16% undeclared.

For child sexual abuse in total, not just grooming gangs, its 90% white, 4% Asian, 3% black.

For reference for the population of the UK the breakdown is 87% white, 6.9% Asian, 3% black.

So it is fair to say you can state that there is a Muslim issue if you pick selected studies and make a correlation that all those of a certain ethnicity are Muslim. I would tend to term it more an Asian issue, and religion can certainly play a part in that. And of course it is something that most definitely should be addressed.

The problem I have with the likes of Robinson shouting from the rooftops about Muslims, even if you ignore any doubts about the quality of data, is that there's a danger that the message is confused and grooming gangs being a Muslim problem becomes, in the general publics mind, all child sexual abuse is a Muslim problem. That is worrying as it assists in allowing the biggest group of offenders to have the spotlight taken off them.

 

[covcity4life]

Trump winning and TR being popular is probably closer connected than most people think.

A vacuum has been created by the elite class who do not wish to listen to normal people with genuine concerns. When this happens people reject them. Trump winning only happened as an anti-Hillary thing, and people support TR because the government wish to silence him and anyone else who dares to voice their concerns over something a lot of people have worries about.

there is some truth to that

this government is so out of touch with the people and issues like immigration have got worse and worse.

its just a shame that people with concerns jump to the right wing and become the problem of this country themselves

normal people are in the minority.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

It was reported in the wider media, I've provided several links in this thread. Its not being reported on currently as there has been restrictions in place since they were charged at their initial court appearance.

Given that there has been, and if past experience is anything to go by, undoubtedly will be further coverage on completion what exactly is TR exposing?
​

You're claiming no mainstream media have covered it but I've given you links to, among others, the BBC and Mail. As mainstream as you can get.

Figured I might as well look at the data myself.

The last census was in 2011 and shows the Muslim population of Britain as 2,786,635, 4.4% of the total population. It could well be 5% by now as the influx of refugees will have increased the numbers.

Finding figures for offences by Muslims is difficult as the CPS don't record any stats by religion. You have to go off ethnicity and even then there's not a whole lot of data.

The 2011 CEOP study breaks down grooming gangs as 30% white, 28% Asian 3% black and 38% unknown which doesn't really show much with so many unknown although the study suggests non white ethnicity is more likely to be recorded.

A further study by the CEOP had grooming gangs targeting vulnerable children as 75% Asian, 17% white, 5% black and 3% Arab. That same study had grooming gangs targeting children due to sexual interest as 100% white.

Another study by the government stated 36% of grooming gangs were white, 27% Asian, 16% black and 16% undeclared.

For child sexual abuse in total, not just grooming gangs, its 90% white, 4% Asian, 3% black.

For reference for the population of the UK the breakdown is 87% white, 6.9% Asian, 3% black.

So it is fair to say you can state that there is a Muslim issue if you pick selected studies and make a correlation that all those of a certain ethnicity are Muslim. I would tend to term it more an Asian issue, and religion can certainly play a part in that. And of course it is something that most definitely should be addressed.

The problem I have with the likes of Robinson shouting from the rooftops about Muslims, even if you ignore any doubts about the quality of data, is that there's a danger that the message is confused and grooming gangs being a Muslim problem becomes, in the general publics mind, all child sexual abuse is a Muslim problem. That is worrying as it assists in allowing the biggest group of offenders to have the spotlight taken off them.

Good research.

The statistics show that there is almost an equal percentage of grooming gangs between white and asian. The two things I would instantly take from that is that firstly, as you have published, 87% of the population are white. Face value then says the asian population is massively over represented in those figures. I would also then add that the 'term' asian is coined as muslims in most circumstance. If you go through it case by case, I would certainly doubt you would find that statement incorrect. I'm sure ccfc4life will tell you all about the negative press Sikhs are getting as a result of this, yet are not the ones committing these crimes in most circumstances.

I go back to one of the points I made previous, people are uncomfortable with saying these a large amount of these crimes are committed by muslims. These cases are not being covered in full and there have been cover ups - look at Rotherham. Just because some have been covered, it doesn't mean that it is all honest and open reporting. The media aren't really interested in this case other than TR, even though it is now finished.

There is a problem, it's fact. It's not being talked about openly and honestly, and it needs to be. If it was we could tackle it and you wouldn't have people like TR taking the stage.

 

[fernandopartridge]

As I said earlier there appears to be a racial element to it, proving that is not straight forward.
The religious side doesn't fully Wash with me as they are in no way model Muslims .
Elements of Islamic teachings no doubt seep into the Cultural conciousness covertly through the parochial hierarchy .
It would be enlightening to learn or know of examples of similar behaviour within their own community, is that covered up, don't shit on your own doorstep, non existant?
Does their target fit a vulnerable easy to manipulate ,overlooked white adolescants?
Is there individual paedophile activity within their own community, rape etc, absolutely.
My take they are second to third generation who have a hankering for some western values frowned upon in their religion who targeted vulnerable adolescant white girls who would go under the radar.
If you look to the sub-continent there are many much more violent examples of hideous crimes on women, children Involving violent sexual and mortal undertones .
I don't think they are exclusive to one religion so again I go more towards parochial/Cultural attitudes .
I absolutely agree an honest debate has to be had.
I however become nervous for other members of this community or others who are faced with generalist Quotes ,attitudes, Numbers, percentages etc brought on them when the simple truth is the guilty No among them are miniscule.
17 cases x@notional 20 perpetrators.
The question again reverts to the failures of the authorities blindsiding instead of being open .

Isn't the sexual abuse a very specific Pakistani (Kashmiri) thing? It isn't endemic amongst muslims it's a cultural rather than religious thing.

As for Tommy Robinson, an utter narcissist. He was jailed because he breached his suspended sentence, nothing much more to say really. He should know better by now.

 

[clint van damme]

can I ask the people using the terms 'lefties' where do you get your opinion of what the left is thinking?

Do you actually listen to any left wing commentators or do you get a condensed synopsis of what the left thinks from the likes of the Daily Mail?

I'm a 'leftie' but have read and listened to commentators on the right. From utter cretins like robinson and Marie Waters to people like Douglas Murray and Johan Norberg who I don't agree with on much but who are interesting to listen to and do make some salient points in my opinion.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

It's insulting to most righties to assume you have to be a leftie, to oppose racism and bigotry.

 

[ajsccfc]

The tact I don't like is if you criticise 'Tommy', some of his more rabid fans will therefore decide that it means you like Muslim gang rape instead, because those can be the only two options.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

The tact I don't like is if you criticise 'Tommy', some of his more rabid fans will therefore decide that it means you like Muslim gang rape instead, because those can be the only two options.

There's obviously more than two options.

I think it's more the fact that people are more interested about TR than the crimes he was trying to expose.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

There's obviously more than two options.

I think it's more the fact that people are more interested about TR than the crimes he was trying to expose.

Only Tommy Robinson has made the story about Tommy Robinson, rather than the (already exposed) crimes.

 

[ajsccfc]

This is what happens with the cult of personality people like this on all sides of the spectrum create.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Only Tommy Robinson has made the story about Tommy Robinson, rather than the (already exposed) crimes.

They're not already exposed as the wider media do not give a shit in most circumstances. A few links to articles do not disprove that.

Look at the Independent, no mention of this case on this occasion, but loads of material on Tommy Robinson.

As I have said many times, if this was reported openly and honestly, there wouldn't be a need for people like TR. It was a battle to even get some on here to acknowledge there was a problem in the first place.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

They're not already exposed as the wider media do not give a shit in most circumstances. A few links to articles do not disprove that.

Well, a link to presence when you're declaring absence does actually disprove that.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Well, a link to presence when you're declaring absence does actually disprove that.

So you honestly think muslim grooming gangs are reported fairly and openly?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

So you honestly think muslim grooming gangs are reported fairly and openly?

Compared to other crimes? Yep. To say otherwise would mean invoking a flawed methodology that doesn't compare like for like, and would involve looking for the one-offs to prove an already held belief.

If, however, we consider grooming gangs. It's pretrty significant that the Rotherham abuse scandal was brought to attention by... a journalist. This journalist then won a number of prizes among his peers for his work in exposing it, thereby highlighting the crimes once more. The reaction of said journalist's paper is also significant.

After that initial splash, Norfolk thought it was a “job well done” and he would move on. But his then editor James Harding, now director of BBC News, insisted that he work on the story full-time and continued to encourage him, as does the present Times editor John Witherow.

i.e. the editors of the paper encouraged him to continue to put the issue of grooming gangs to the forefront of their paper even though he, as a jobbing journalist, had been expecting to move on to the next story. The fact he expected to move on shows the standard, in fact, of what's expected... that a story is reported, and then it dies. For these grooming gangs... it didn't.

Even the leftie Guardian publishes years after the event, and years even after the trial, articles about the fallout. These articles also highlight how victims sometimes feel that the police were scared to be more aggressive with their investigations for fear of being accused of being racist.This isn't sweeping it under the carpet and, indeed, continued media coverage means that more officers are being allocated to investigating such cases than ever before.

If you look at the presence rather than absence, and compare it to other presences and absences then yes, the coverage has been ample.

 

[covcity4life]

its funny because you have people say media protect muslim grooming gangs
then muslims i know say its unfair media calling them muslim gangs but when its white peados they dont bring up colour or religion

truth is probably somewhere in the middle where the normal people are who detest racism and peadophilia

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Compared to other crimes? Yep. To say otherwise would mean invoking a flawed methodology that doesn't compare like for like, and would involve looking for the one-offs to prove an already held belief.

If, however, we consider grooming gangs. It's pretrty significant that the Rotherham abuse scandal was brought to attention by... a journalist. This journalist then won a number of prizes among his peers for his work in exposing it, thereby highlighting the crimes once more. The reaction of said journalist's paper is also significant.



i.e. the editors of the paper encouraged him to continue to put the issue of grooming gangs to the forefront of their paper even though he, as a jobbing journalist, had been expecting to move on to the next story. The fact he expected to move on shows the standard, in fact, of what's expected... that a story is reported, and then it dies. For these grooming gangs... it didn't.

Even the leftie Guardian publishes years after the event, and years even after the trial, articles about the fallout. These articles also highlight how victims sometimes feel that the police were scared to be more aggressive with their investigations for fear of being accused of being racist.This isn't sweeping it under the carpet and, indeed, continued media coverage means that more officers are being allocated to investigating such cases than ever before.

If you look at the presence rather than absence, and compare it to other presences and absences then yes, the coverage has been ample.

I disagree with you.

Just because a journalist eventually outed what was being hidden for so long, does not mean it is being covered extensively. Just because this journalist was then also told to carry on doesn't mean the coverage is ample either. There are more not being covered than covered. As I said, a few links doesn't really prove anything. This has been going on all over the country in countless towns and cities, so to keep highlighting that Rotherham got quite a bit of coverage is pretty blinkered.

If these horrendous crimes, continuously committed by the same people from a small minority were covered by the media and prosecuted fairly by the CPS, you would not have people like TR getting so much air time. It's pure and simple.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

its funny because you have people say media protect muslim grooming gangs
then muslims i know say its unfair media calling them muslim gangs but when its white peados they dont bring up colour or religion

truth is probably somewhere in the middle where the normal people are who detest racism and peadophilia

That's because muslims only make up 5% of the population. It is not racist to highlight that or to express concern.

 

[covcity4life]

its also not racist to arrest someone for breaching court order.

 

[clint van damme]

I disagree with you.

Just because a journalist eventually outed what was being hidden for so long, does not mean it is being covered extensively. Just because this journalist was then also told to carry on doesn't mean the coverage is ample either. There are more not being covered than covered. As I said, a few links doesn't really prove anything. This has been going on all over the country in countless towns and cities, so to keep highlighting that Rotherham got quite a bit of coverage is pretty blinkered.

If these horrendous crimes, continuously committed by the same people from a small minority were covered by the media and prosecuted fairly by the CPS, you would not have people like TR getting so much air time. It's pure and simple.

So these crimes are not being covered by the media so Tommy Robinson is been given lots of air time by the media for trying to bring them to public attention? That statement is contradictory.