Proper supporters fighting for their club (3 Viewers)

[Godiva]

So you're happy to sit back and watch SISU further asset-strip your club because it's 'fair'. Fair for an investment firm who's investment went wrong so we have to suffer?

You cannot associate any outside protests with what's going on on the pitch. There has been no evidence that it has had a detrimental effect and the player's themselves blame the board for their league position.

The situation is this:
The board are now in a position where they cannot obtain further funds from SISU who want out. The council also have no intention of letting SISU own the ground. There is no future for SISU at this club.
On the other hand, we have an interested party that wants to buy the ground and go from there. Are we ruling out the possibility that this can happen without even giving it a chance?

Tarring Hoffman with the SISU brush because he was on the board doesn't really make sense seeing as he resigned after a disagreement with how the club was being run...

I do associate the protests (the unrest it cause inside the club) and the success on the pitch. We saw the form dip when the Ranson/Hoffman/Elliott vs sisu fight started last winter and the form only recovered when 'the three' had left the boardroom. Then again when the media sitcom 'Hoffman vs sisu' was on display last summer followed by the sisu-out-campaign - when that campaign cooled down the results on the pitch finally started to come. Instead of losing in the final minutes, we actually began to win in the final minutes.
My opinion is that the players are not too inspired to give their last 5% when the surroundings are upset.
In your workplace ... how likely are you and your colleges to put in an extra shift if there's a rift between your companys management and the customers? Why would you bother?

You say sisu want out ... the only official statements I have seen from sisu is that the club is not for sale, that the keep bankrolling the club and that they have no plans of leaving anytime soon.
Of course the club is for sale - everything is for sale, at the right price. But nobody seem to be interested in paying the right price, so for now, the club is not for sale, and sisu are going nowhere.

You say the council have no intention of letting sisu own the ground ... well, two comments:
One - the council have never said 'indefinately', but 'as things are'. At the moment there's no evidence that sisu can find the capital needed and come up with a coherent plan for the whole area, which would be essential for obtaining the councils permission to take over the stadium. The same goes for any other investor groups.
Two - In my post I (again) advocate for new investors to join up with sisu. Let sisu run the club and let new money invest in stadium and new revenue streams. It's business so it should be possible to find a solution where both sides will come out richer in the future. A long term buy-out agreement could be what it takes - and it could constructed in such a way that new income streams established by new investors could benefit the club with the FFP regulation in mind.

 

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[mememe]

success??? are you having a laugh, the protests were a damp squid they achieved nothing because they were not done correctly, joy sepalla was they key, protesters should have gone to her home and camped there occupying her property... she would have spent a couple of million then to get rid of the (how she sees it ) scurge of ccfc supporters.

lets face facts Nimely Hreideson and norwood have made all the difference. that is the correlation not a few guys chanting sisu out. to be taken seriously you have to protest even when we are winning

 

[kg82]

Yes let's hope sisu keep hold of us for a few more years,id look forward to us playing nuneaton or leamington in a league game.

Pretty sure nobody's said they want SISU to stay for a couple more years so that's not a great argument. The argument is about being branded pathetic by someone I don't even know and doesn't know me and I take offence to that. I support my team through thick and thin and (this IS a novelty) I'm more worried about our on the pitch situation currently.

 

[kg82]

success??? are you having a laugh, the protests were a damp squid they achieved nothing because they were not done correctly, joy sepalla was they key, protesters should have gone to her home and camped there occupying her property... she would have spent a couple of million then to get rid of the (how she sees it ) scurge of ccfc supporters.

lets face facts Nimely Hreideson and norwood have made all the difference. that is the correlation not a few guys chanting sisu out. to be taken seriously you have to protest even when we are winning

Somebody's done this before so I'll forgive you - it's damp squib!

 

[Godiva]

success??? are you having a laugh, the protests were a damp squid they achieved nothing because they were not done correctly, joy sepalla was they key, protesters should have gone to her home and camped there occupying her property... she would have spent a couple of million then to get rid of the (how she sees it ) scurge of ccfc supporters.

Is that some sort of new age communism? The 'masses' forcing one set of 'capitalists' to surrender their property, only for the 'masses' to hand the property over to another set of 'capitalists'?

 

[CUS Wyken]

Look at this mess for example.

As i've said i hate SISU but this shows what can happen if we went into Admin

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/footba...inistrators-begin-savage-cuts-86908-23770531/

 

[lordsummerisle]

The issue in question is the willingness to take action by the both sets of supporters.

While we will condemn Blackburn's fans for their treatment of Steve Kean, their passion on the whole seems to be far greater than ours. The organised marches through town are an example of what we could be doing.

Coventry's population is 3 times that of Blackburn's and we've let our club become a circus and a laughing stock with nothing but a whimper.

What exactly do you want us to do? Firebomb the SISU offices? Storm the Bastille?

There are a lot of things to get really angry about in the World, and the country, that would warrant some sort of direct action, inequality, Tories looking after their own, the 1% really "not getting it".

The self-inflicted travails of a Football Club that has over-reached itself financially over many years not one of them.

Just make yourself look like fucking cry-babies to be honest.

 

[SydneySkyBlue]

What exactly do you want us to do? Firebomb the SISU offices? Storm the Bastille?

There are a lot of things to get really angry about in the World, and the country, that would warrant some sort of direct action, inequality, Tories looking after their own, the 1% really "not getting it".

The self-inflicted travails of a Football Club that has over-reached itself financially over many years not one of them.

Just make yourself look like fecking cry-babies to be honest.

That's lovely; and I'll do my best to take on world famine when I get a moment.

For now though I'll deal with issues which directly affect me as a paying customer.

:facepalm:

 

[SydneySkyBlue]

I do associate the protests (the unrest it cause inside the club) and the success on the pitch. We saw the form dip when the Ranson/Hoffman/Elliott vs sisu fight started last winter and the form only recovered when 'the three' had left the boardroom. Then again when the media sitcom 'Hoffman vs sisu' was on display last summer followed by the sisu-out-campaign - when that campaign cooled down the results on the pitch finally started to come. Instead of losing in the final minutes, we actually began to win in the final minutes.
My opinion is that the players are not too inspired to give their last 5% when the surroundings are upset.
In your workplace ... how likely are you and your colleges to put in an extra shift if there's a rift between your companys management and the customers? Why would you bother?

You say sisu want out ... the only official statements I have seen from sisu is that the club is not for sale, that the keep bankrolling the club and that they have no plans of leaving anytime soon.
Of course the club is for sale - everything is for sale, at the right price. But nobody seem to be interested in paying the right price, so for now, the club is not for sale, and sisu are going nowhere.

You say the council have no intention of letting sisu own the ground ... well, two comments:
One - the council have never said 'indefinately', but 'as things are'. At the moment there's no evidence that sisu can find the capital needed and come up with a coherent plan for the whole area, which would be essential for obtaining the councils permission to take over the stadium. The same goes for any other investor groups.
Two - In my post I (again) advocate for new investors to join up with sisu. Let sisu run the club and let new money invest in stadium and new revenue streams. It's business so it should be possible to find a solution where both sides will come out richer in the future. A long term buy-out agreement could be what it takes - and it could constructed in such a way that new income streams established by new investors could benefit the club with the FFP regulation in mind.

In no situation can I see Hoffman and SISU co-exiting in harmony.

Nor is it realistic to expect Hoffman to persuade his money-men to agree to a deal in which they may eventually have control of the club years down the line. It's not as if he can now say "trust me these guys never go back in their word" is it?

We need this takeover happen now not at some point in the distant future.

 

[Godiva]

In no situation can I see Hoffman and SISU co-exiting in harmony.

Nor is it realistic to expect Hoffman to persuade his money-men to agree to a deal in which they may eventually have control of the club years down the line. It's not as if he can now say "trust me these guys never go back in their word" is it?

We need this takeover happen now not at some point in the distant future.

If sisu and Hoffman cannot co-exist in harmony, then they should not try to negotiate a take-over. That will never have a happy ending (the ending is when the deal is done and suddenly noone can agree on the actual meaning in the documents).

If they are all businessmen, they will understand to put aside the past and work out the future to benefit all involved.

I have no evidence that sisu have gone back on any legal agreement ... have you?

 

[ICHAN]

Sisu may not be ideal, no one I think will disagree. but why do people pin so much hope that the hoffman bid (if their is one for real and not just hearsay & hopes) when he is only fronting them and is actually not putting his own money in as far as I am aware.

So we could well end up in the same position a year or so down the line, what happens if we do not get promoted and the investers want their money back? We will be here again and people will be saying the same things.

Will Hoffman come a knight in shining armour again saying that the investors never stuck to the plan and all the other stuff that has been said?

We are where we are like it or not, however with the new rules coming into action, we may actually find ourselves on a very solid platform as to the way the club has been run by sisu, this does not make me a sisu fanboy or whatever you want to call me, but just looking at this without sky blue tinted glasses.

 

[Godiva]

Well, if nothing else I think this thread puts to bed the 'all fans are/feel/think/hope/demand ...' claim.
We are not united behind any one plan or statement.

We are not united in anything, but the desire to see our club do well.

 

[SydneySkyBlue]

If sisu and Hoffman cannot co-exist in harmony, then they should not try to negotiate a take-over. That will never have a happy ending (the ending is when the deal is done and suddenly noone can agree on the actual meaning in the documents).

If they are all businessmen, they will understand to put aside the past and work out the future to benefit all involved.

I have no evidence that sisu have gone back on any legal agreement ... have you?

If sisu and Hoffman cannot co-exist in harmony, then they should not try to negotiate a take-over. That will never have a happy ending (the ending is when the deal is done and suddenly noone can agree on the actual meaning in the documents).
*
If they are all businessmen, they will understand to put aside the past and work out the future to benefit all involved.*
*
I have no evidence that sisu have gone back on any legal agreement ... have you?

Well that's the thing Godiva. From all accounts it would seem that negotiations have been problematic due to animosity between the parties. I've also heard that Joy Sepella is a nasty bitch and personally has it in for Hoffman.

I was referring more to SISU going back on the plan for the club that they originally set out, which changed when circumstances (namely the credit crunch) dictated that Coventry City was no longer top of SISU's list of priorities.

 

[SydneySkyBlue]

Sisu may not be ideal, no one I think will disagree. but why do people pin so much hope that the hoffman bid (if their is one for real and not just hearsay & hopes) when he is only fronting them and is actually not putting his own money in as far as I am aware.

So we could well end up in the same position a year or so down the line, what happens if we do not get promoted and the investers want their money back? We will be here again and people will be saying the same things.

Will Hoffman come a knight in shining armour again saying that the investors never stuck to the plan and all the other stuff that has been said?

We are where we are like it or not, however with the new rules coming into action, we may actually find ourselves on a very solid platform as to the way the club has been run by sisu, this does not make me a sisu fanboy or whatever you want to call me, but just looking at this without sky blue tinted glasses.

ICHAN, I can fully understand where you're coming from.

Personally though I'd much rather have someone like Hoffman back on the CCFC board and investors that come through him instead of having puppets with their begging bowls out to London based suits. It all seems too distant and with no regard for the club at the moment.

 

[ICHAN]

But we don't know who the investors are or where they are from, and this is what worries me GSS, they could again be faceless owners and so will not be led blindly by another consortium of suits without a face.

I am all for a new regime and new direction for the club and want success like everyone else, but this does not mean I am blind to the fact that we could end up back where we are now before we know it.

The thing is GSS (not directed towards your comments but just a general outlook) that just because Hoffman is a sky blue fan, he will not have any control of the finances, if he was himself coming in with his money and local people were the ones investing then I would be a lot happier but I am wary that we could end up straight back in this mess a couple of years down the line again if the promotion plan does not work.

 

[CJparker]

First - I think it was the stewards at the Ricoh - under orders from the management of the Ricoh - who took away the banners. The Ricoh is NOT owned by sisu, so you can't really blame that on the club owners.

Second - at this moment there seem to finally be some sort of order and relative calm at the club. The influence of that is showing in the results. We're still not relegated and we have a real chance of staying up. Do you really want to get us back to unrest and instabillity?

Third - Let's say you got it your way and tomorrow sisu hand over their shares and the office keys to Hoffman. Then what?
Let's pretend that Hoffman has all the chicken lined up and his investors are ready to move in.
Now we have swapped one set of annonymous investors with another set of annonymous investors.
I assume they will put Hoffman in the chair ... the man who originally helped sisu to take over the club and who sat in the boardroom for the first three years and miserably failed to gain any kind of financial stabillity or success on the pitch.
Why would he succeed second time around? Would you install Coleman as manager again?

But with new investors, he bring in new money. Only he cannot spend too much in the team as increased wages will conflict with the FFP regulation and in any case they will have to continue the task of getting the finances to breakeven. The club will need to come off the permanent life support and live within its means.

So I don't really see enough potential change to the clubs situation to support the sisu-out campaign (and never have).

You may argue that Hoffmans backing group will buy the Ricoh and invest in the whole area around it.
Fine, that would be great, but why can't they start there? Why should they not be able to acknowledge that sisu runs the club for the next few years while they buy the stadium and build up the surrounding infrastructure and business? Then - when all that is done - then they can take over the club.
In the mean time the club will benefit from the developing around it and from having a stable financial future.
Yes, I admit that way sisu would actually end up regaining all their money and probably even make a profit. You may not like that outcome, but I actually find it fair.

This is probably the best-informed post I've read on this forum. Perfect.

 

[Grendel]

This is probably the best-informed post I've read on this forum. Perfect.

It is reassuring that most of us take a mature approach to the issue. I thought the OP would have been generally agreed upon on here. Glad is is not.

 

[@richh87]

Sisu may not be ideal, no one I think will disagree. but why do people pin so much hope that the hoffman bid (if their is one for real and not just hearsay & hopes) when he is only fronting them and is actually not putting his own money in as far as I am aware.

So we could well end up in the same position a year or so down the line, what happens if we do not get promoted and the investers want their money back? We will be here again and people will be saying the same things.

Will Hoffman come a knight in shining armour again saying that the investors never stuck to the plan and all the other stuff that has been said?

We are where we are like it or not, however with the new rules coming into action, we may actually find ourselves on a very solid platform as to the way the club has been run by sisu, this does not make me a sisu fanboy or whatever you want to call me, but just looking at this without sky blue tinted glasses.

These financial fair play rules really seem to be whipping teams like Leicester and West Ham into shape don't they.

Also, we won't have a good platform for anything as we don't own the ground. It's key and SISU will never be allowes to buy it as they don't have the club's interests at heart and they are out of money.

We need owners who at the very least want to own a football club for Christ's sake!

 

[Grendel]

Things SISU should not have done

1) Bought a football club that did not own its ground expecting that the council would
give
you the ground as that is good for the club. Not be prepared to buy the ground
2) Hide to true identity of the key investors as it provides a perception that there is
something sinister going on whether there is or not
3) Employ a person which key football know how and who actually had an
investment interest aswell but dont trust them to make important decisions
4) Get to a junction where you either invest 2 million on A.Carroll,
J.henderson and J.Cork or dont invest and sell what you have before ensuring you
have suitable replacemnts on the table
5) Once in the bottom three at xmas 6 points adrift following the above decisions, weigh
up the cost of relegation against the £600000 (after Everton) to be gained from
selling your top striker and still sell him. Again despite not having suitable replacements
lined up
6) Install lots of chairman, CEO's board members whatever they are called
7) Listen to orange Ken to not negotiate with the Hoff
8) Sack managers every year or so, hoping to find one who can achieve more from a
squad than the season before with less talent at their disposal.
9) Westwood asked for contract extension talks did not happen
10) King verbally agreed to sign on phone other clubs were sniffing Fergie would have
gone to his holiday location and got the signiture

I think when you consider the above decisions going on, it is pretty hard to judge AT as a manager, so I think there is a bit more to focus on regarding SISU than their choice of manager

In answer;

1 - I agree and now I am sure so do SISU. However they were the money men but Ranson was the main instigator of the whole project. Were we the 5th or 6th club he tried to buy with SISU funds? He clearly presented the company with a plan for quick profit and they trusted his judgement.
2 - Would hold that thought if I were you as I suspect this will become a re-occuring theme.
3 - They just should not have employed Ranson. A man unsuited to the job who has bought a succession of failed managers to the fray. SISU must have been delighted to have 3 managers on the payroll at one time.
4 - Pure supposition so let's not even go there
5 - Looks slightly at odds as they will argue the limited budget has been better spent and results and league position have improved
6 and 7 - Not worthy of serious response
8 - Back to the football man Ray I think
9 - Yes of course he was always going to sign a contract when Premier Clubs were hunting
10 - We have already established that Thorn's statements in public are to be taken with a large ocean of salt

 

[Grendel]

These financial fair play rules really seem to be whipping teams like Leicester and West Ham into shape don't they.

Also, we won't have a good platform for anything as we don't own the ground. It's key and SISU will never be allowes to buy it as they don't have the club's interests at heart and they are out of money.

We need owners who at the very least want to own a football club for Christ's sake!

West Ham have gone for broke to get promoted as have Leicester. No such rules exist in the premiership.

The ground gets a lot of talk and if someone buys in cash I think this is good. However, if they buy with loans we will be worse off.

What we do not need is the return of the same familiar faces that almost wrecked the club before. Ranson and Elliot are largely culpable for this unholy mess.

 

[torchomatic]

I'd imagine though GSS that Hoffman's backers (i.e. the men with the actual cash) probably are London suits. And they won't be doing it for the love of the club, they'll be doing it to make money like all investors are.

to London based suits. It all seems too distant and with no regard for the club at the moment.

 

[Grendel]

I'd imagine though GSS that Hoffman's backers (i.e. the men with the actual cash) probably are London suits. And they won't be doing it for the love of the club, they'll be doing it to make money like all investors are.

Yes. If people assume millions on players as with Leicester they will be disappointed.

 

[ICHAN]

These financial fair play rules really seem to be whipping teams like Leicester and West Ham into shape don't they.

Also, we won't have a good platform for anything as we don't own the ground. It's key and SISU will never be allowes to buy it as they don't have the club's interests at heart and they are out of money.

We need owners who at the very least want to own a football club for Christ's sake!

Well that's upto them, they may get found out very quickly if they do not get promoted, so you would rather be millions in debt without being certain of promotion, and go down the portsmouth route?

So hoffman's consortium has the money does it, and you know this because? hearsay and what you want to believe, and you think they only want the club because of footbal and not money? well i'm sorry if I do not want to believe everything people and gossip say's that I should.

Why does it always have to be personal attacks with you, as though everyone is dumb except you and only you are right (for christ sake!) your opinion is not the only one.

All people can have differant opinions without being idiots, clueless, pathetic,sisu fanboys and all the other childish names you call and class people who do not agree with your way of thinking or your opinions.
I think your a self opinionated cock but I would never say you are because your allowed views and opinions, even though I do not agree with anything you say, but you are entitled to them nontheless.

 

[Godiva]

Ranson and Elliot are largely culpable for this unholy mess.

You forgot Hoffman as the trinity had majority vote in the 5 man board the first three years.

Another mess was the fact that Ranson held almost 20% of the shares - his position at the board was very likely (I am making an educated guess here) stipulated in the shareholders agreement.
That meant he had to be frozen out by sisu (on behalf of the majority shareholders) in the only way possible: Stop for more loans.

Wasn't pretty and still today make people believe the club may be close to administraion.

 

[Grendel]

And yet some peope crave for the return of the Clueless One.

 

[@richh87]

West Ham have gone for broke to get promoted as have Leicester. No such rules exist in the premiership.

The ground gets a lot of talk and if someone buys in cash I think this is good. However, if they buy with loans we will be worse off.

What we do not need is the return of the same familiar faces that almost wrecked the club before. Ranson and Elliot are largely culpable for this unholy mess.

As i've been told on this thread - you shouldn't generalise like that. Just being involved with the club over any time in the last 20 years does not make someone a scumbag.

In Elliott's case he's never had any power and just loves being involved. In Hoffman's case he took exception to the way things were being done and left.

 

[@richh87]

Well that's upto them, they may get found out very quickly if they do not get promoted, so you would rather be millions in debt without being certain of promotion, and go down the portsmouth route?

So hoffman's consortium has the money does it, and you know this because? hearsay and what you want to believe, and you think they only want the club because of footbal and not money? well i'm sorry if I do not want to believe everything people and gossip say's that I should.

Why does it always have to be personal attacks with you, as though everyone is dumb except you and only you are right (for christ sake!) your opinion is not the only one.

All people can have differant opinions without being idiots, clueless, pathetic,sisu fanboys and all the other childish names you call and class people who do not agree with your way of thinking or your opinions.
I think your a self opinionated cock but I would never say you are because your allowed views and opinions, even though I do not agree with anything you say, but you are entitled to them nontheless.

Wow.

You really will fight hard to hang on to the owners dragging us to League 1 followed by god knows where.

What you all seem to be conveniently forgetting is that SISU have only promised to fund us until May. That's 2 months away. It's a similar timescale towards which Portsmouth and Rangers are quoting for funding.

We are being run as if we're in administration. Every player worth anything gets sold - even our top scorer when we're bottom of the league!

Just bend over and take it then. Disgrace.

 

[thorn in my side]

Blackburn fans marching to get Venkys out this weekend. Sparked by the sale of Samba.

If they had our fans there'd be quiet acceptance.

City fans are pathetic.

Go find another club then if we offend you so much.

 

[@richh87]

Go find another club then if we offend you so much.

It's not you lot I support - otherwise I would!

 

[valiant15]

We get a couple of freebie loanees and a couple of lucky wins and people are licking sisu's backsides again,what a two faced lot you are. You can get back to slagging andy thorn off when he gets better,after all,sisu have left him with such a quality squad of players haven't they. Spineless,gutless bunch if yes men.

 

[@richh87]

We get a couple of freebie loanees and a couple of lucky wins and people are licking sisu's backsides again,what a two faced lot you are. You can get back to slagging andy thorn off when he gets better,after all,sisu have left him with such a quality squad of players haven't they. Spineless,gutless bunch if yes men.

Spot on mate!

Some of these are the very posters that do most of the moaning and slating Andy Thorn - yet they don't have a word to say about SISU!!! It's unbelievable.

 

[ICHAN]

Nothing to do with fighting hard to hang onto the present owners, it's to do with having no realistic option, this does not mean everyone likes it (this forum only represents a small number of fans) no one knows what other fans feel about the owners not even you.

Most on here agree that sisu need to go in the best interest of the club long term, this does not make them blind or less knowledgable about what is going on.
We can no longer afford to have millions spent on a team, this does not promise anything but more debt and more money to buy them out, if there is a buy out on the table.

No one has come in and took the club over, as for sisu saying they will only be here until the end of the season, we will have to wait and see, can not see them just being able to cut their losses with nothing back and run, but that is just my opinion.
So they will be gone, so how are they going to be able to sell any player that will fetch any money and so weaken the squad further before next season?

If that is the case then why worry about them, they will be gone, so why all the furore about trying to get them out?

Ok we may or may not be relegated but most are expecting this anyway, so come the end of the season they will be gone and we can be taken over, so I do not understand why you are getting so angry about it all the time, if they go then AT will not be manager, as any new investors would I should imagine want a more experianced manager to get the team promoted, so you will lose your messiah.

So what are you doing about it then Rich?
Writing on here about how angry they make you feel?
So you are bending over as well and taking it, disgrace.
I applauded the protest and encouraged what was being done and tried to have some ideas for Jan & Co, but a few hundred were not going to make any differance, what has happened to the protest's?
If you feel so strong about them do you do a 1 man protest? and if not why not?

 

[CJparker]

Just reading the vitriol and aggression in this thread is depressing. I know the club is in a bad place, but to have such bad feeling going on is upsetting.

To have a chance at turning things round, we all (fans, players, manager, board etc) need to be all pulling together. At the moment it feels like we're pulling ourselves apart

 

[ICHAN]

Spot on mate!

Some of these are the very posters that do most of the moaning and slating Andy Thorn - yet they don't have a word to say about SISU!!! It's unbelievable.

I think you will find quite a few have said things about sisu, and about what they have done to the club, however some also do not go blinded like a rabbit in the headlights beleiving hearsay and rumours about the group who may want to take over the club, who may be just as faceless as sisu.

Would you prefer a portsmouth scenario, where we could possibly no longer have a club to support?
What then we would be blaming sisu for spending millions that they could not afford and so destroying our club.

We all want the team to be in the prem and buying a player for a few million but it just is not going to happen, this has nothing to do with supporting sisu or their strategy (whatever that is) but being realistic and taking the sky blue glasses off

 

[georgehudson]

we debate endlessly,
we, for the most part, apart from 'trolls', all have sky blue glasses on,
but we cannot ignore the state of our club,
but, the minute amount of information that sisu decide to feed us is farcical,
most reasoned opinion would despair at the resources given to the team to win matches,
and still sisu in their ivory tower tell us fans nothing,
we wait, yet again