Supporters Club / Trust (1 Viewer)

ashbyjan

Well-Known Member
Andy, I and some others have been discussing the subject for some time now, and have started to get the behind the scenes work in order. The idea is to have a Supporters Club/Trust that seeks the betterment and safeguard of CCFC, improve community relations and most importantly communication.

The idea is to have a somewhat collective voice with one main goal or vision, a better CCFC! We would look to hold the owners and board accountable, whoever they are and ensure that the fans voice is heard.

We have thrown a few ideas together and they include things such as an open Q&A with Thorn, Fisher an a SISU rep (no special close door thing like in London).

This can only work if people are interested and would want to join in order to put some clout behind it. Now I haven't gone into grave detail here as ultimately we are trying to gauge the fans opinion on the matter and if it is actually what people want, we want to arrange a meeting to formalise with Supporters Direct in attendance who will assist us in becoming official, so I guess the question is;

Do you want to have a say in how our club is run moving forward?

If we get enough interest then Andy and I will do all it takes to get ths off the ground and make it a success with help from as many Skyblue supporters as possible.
 

rob9872

Well-Known Member
"We would look to hold the owners and board accountable, whoever they are and ensure that the fans voice is heard."


Good luck with the venture, but without investment, how do you propose to achieve the part I have quoted above?
 

Houchens Head

Fairly well known member from Malvern
What makes you think SISU would even consider this? They've never cared about the fans before.
 

canleykid

New Member
No point to be honest you only get told what the telegraph does so it won't change anything,to be honest most people are pissed off but they know it doesnt matter what fans do while sisu are here,supporters trust or whatever you call it is just a few people trying to make a name for themselves and kissing arse to get noticed,it hasnt worked in the last eight years having a trust and i can assure you it won't work now.
 

ashbyjan

Well-Known Member
Holding someone accountable has nothing to do with money it has to do with influence - if as a group we are seen as a body representing a significant number of City fans then we can hold them accountable for their words, promises, actions and plans. United we can make a difference, as a mass of disperate individuals we will continue to be ignored by past, present and future owners.
 

rob9872

Well-Known Member
Holding someone accountable has nothing to do with money it has to do with influence - if as a group we are seen as a body representing a significant number of City fans then we can hold them accountable for their words, promises, actions and plans. United we can make a difference, as a mass of disperate individuals we will continue to be ignored by past, present and future owners.

Of course it is to do with money because if you don't have investment then you have no rights to what you want. You can request that they are accountable to you, but they have no reason to conform unless they want to. You say you can make a difference but what difference have you made to SISU when we are a one united voice that we don't want them and want better information? You're living in cloud cuckoo land if you think you can change this.
 

Nick

Administrator
How would SISU be held accountable? They can do what they want as they own the club, they dont need to answer to the fans and wouldnt. :(
 

canleykid

New Member
Of course it is to do with money because if you don't have investment then you have no rights to what you want. You can request that they are accountable to you, but they have no reason to conform unless they want to. You say you can make a difference but what difference have you made to SISU when we are a one united voice that we don't want them and want better information? You're living in cloud cuckoo land if you think you can change this.

I agree rob,money will always prevail if you have money u have people that will listen,the thing is sisu aren't interested in the fans so they don't care what we think,
 

TheOldFive

New Member
Please stop these embarrassing efforts to rearrange the deckchairs on the Titanic. Show your support by paying your money and turning up and leave it at that. No one has a right over influencing what the owners do with the club other than that. These efforts by self-appointed representatives of no one but themselves are a waste of time and effort, if you have the energy and time to make a difference to something go and support a charity or other good cause, rather than the wealthy young men who kick a football around for a living at CV6. It's only a bloody game aft all.
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
If you were to brand this simply as a new CCFC Supporters' Club, I think you would have a lot more joy. Already people are assuming that SISU are your main agenda-when SOC splintered basically for that reason. The only active supporters club is CCLSC. As Cov doesn't have its own one, and surely it should do, then I think that should be your group's focus-give Coventry an active, inclusive CCFC supporters' club.

The Sky Blue Trust is defunct and Freehold St no longer serves the purpose.
 

ashbyjan

Well-Known Member
To be clear from the start this is no protest group, not an anti SISU group, not a Hoffman is the messiah group. It is designed to be a supporters group that will try and portray the feelings, concerns and wishes of supporters to the people running the club irrespective of the ownership, be that a bunch of faceless investors fronted by SISU or a bunch of faceless investors fronted by Hoffman or whoever. It is about establishing that thing that so many constantly complain about - communication. Proper two way communication with the club. It is about giving a strong united voice to us the supporters.
 

Paxman II

Well-Known Member
I think you should choose your words more carefully if you wish to garner support.
If someone is to be held accountable to you then that implies you have some authority over them. CCFC is a business first and foremost not a private club made up of members.
I see no harm in a supporters group per-say but you talk of it as being an influential body rather than a conduit of supporters feelings.
Set up a supporters club with members, issue weekly news bulletins, fliers and request feedback from supporters. Then feed that unconditionally to CCFC.

However I can't see what you would hope to achieve in the end. Private investors in football clubs will do as they always have done and follow their own decision making and not from unquantifiable and mostly unqualified folks from some self appointed supporters groups.

Why don't you ask if CCFC would like to support a 'supporters group' and what they would offer you for your efforts in working with them and not against them? The conduit can go both ways and some ground rules could be established with the club?
That would be my first port of call asbyjan.
 

Donnie Brasco

New Member
Jan quite simply FUCK THE BETTERMENT OF THE CLUB BOLLOCKS. Why cant you start a supporters club that does not intefere with the board?
 

canleykid

New Member
Jan quite simply FUCK THE BETTERMENT OF THE CLUB BOLLOCKS. Why cant you start a supporters club that does not intefere with the board?

It's because Jan clearly has a boyhood dream of being on the board,maybe he should start supporting the team away from home and see what home and away fans think rather than sit on a computer
 

CJparker

New Member
What happened to the Sky Blue Trust? Did that just wither and die? If so, why would this new group be any different.

Otherwise, could the SBT be resuscitated?
 

ccfcway

Well-Known Member
last one didnt work,so lets try another one

right out of the "CCFC school of picking managers" this one..
 

ashbyjan

Well-Known Member
This venture has nothing to do with SISU or Hoffman or protests or anything like that - it is meant as a supporters club/trust designed to offer two way communication to the club, further the community activity of the club, bring to the attention of the club any supporters issues. It is not about overthrowing regimes, telling the club how to run things, buying the club etc etc. It is mainly about trying to address the main issue many people have with club and have had for years - communication, communication from the club to supporters and vice versa.
 
It seems to me people are taking issue with the figure heads of the proposed Trust rather than the concept itself.

Is this an accurate assessment?
 

Paxman II

Well-Known Member
This venture has nothing to do with SISU or Hoffman or protests or anything like that - it is meant as a supporters club/trust designed to offer two way communication to the club, further the community activity of the club, bring to the attention of the club any supporters issues. It is not about overthrowing regimes, telling the club how to run things, buying the club etc etc. It is mainly about trying to address the main issue many people have with club and have had for years - communication, communication from the club to supporters and vice versa.

Is this not what I just advised? You say one thing with such phrases as 'accountability' then when questioned you retort with a different concept? Which is it?

Go talk with the club about your idea and see if they would like to participate in such a scheme? Opening up conduits between club and fans is a good thing but must be done properly. Your initial idea smacked of protest group rather than a supporters group. Nothing wrong with a supporters group protesting on behalf of the fans but ground rules must first be established with the club.

Do this and then they may even allow you more 'access' to canvas opinion around the Ricoh on Saturday afternoons, attend supporters meetings with the club and have your chair at that table. Seek permission to issue newsletters to supporters, establish a web site and the list goes on...
Give yourselves the opportunity to be in the 'circle' of communication with the clubs day to day affairs (within reason of course).
This would be helpful to the club and fans establishing a two way link.

First up would be a meeting with Mr Fisher. Be prepared though for lots of work if you truly want to pursue this idea.

Now if after thinking about that you believe it's not what you are aiming for then anything else such as previous spurious groups you have tried would be pointless.
 

ashbyjan

Well-Known Member
Paxman - talks have already taken place with the club via Tim Fisher and the commercial dept and they are more than happy to engage with the supporters via a Club/Trust set up as they are the first to admit communication has been a weak area for some time. What we are trying to ascertain is if there is any desire among the fans for more open two way communication with the club or are they happy with things as they are. At this embryonic stage its just a concept which I and others feel would be of benefit to the club and the fans but any ideas or suggestions are more than welcome as its obvious we don't have the monopoly on good ideas.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
I don't know why there is such animosity towards a fairly innocent suggestion.

A link between supporters and the board is not a bad idea in concept. Will be a real challenge with this board but if someone wants to do it and can gain some form of representation why not. Ideas can be generated from this site and other feedback methods about marketing and practical ideas to make the viewing experience better.

Some comments on here are rather childish and destructive but this is always what you get when things like this are proposed . Some companies used to get track workers and other blue collar reps to be on the BOD in an unofficial capacity and they were subjected to the same nonsense. Personally I could not stand for the negativity but I think its a fair call.
 

Paxman II

Well-Known Member
Good. Then use some of the suggestions I gave you. Form a supporters group. Ask them for the ground rules under which they will communicate to you on what level of understanding. In other words how much they will tell you. Without this they could simply blank you out when ever. If they really want it they will establish how far they are willing to communicate with you and where they won't i.e. finances, private take over talks etc.

Good luck but not so sure it's worth your while as long as SISU remain here? Wait for new ownership maybe?
 

ashbyjan

Well-Known Member
As there is no timescale for it or even any evidence that the takeover is actually progressing I don't think it would be prudent to wait for something that may never happen. Whilst there is plenty to criticise about our current owners this is meant to interact with the club not the owners, whoever they are now and in the future. Like I said all ideas welcomed because we need a demonstrable level of support for the scheme to be able to legally resurrect and takeover the trust.
 
What benefits comes from being 'legalised' Jan? It seems you already have access to the club.
 

canleykid

New Member
Jan only has access on matchday and that's thru the gate with his ticket,if any wants to talk to fisher just phone the club he will meet you
 

ashbyjan

Well-Known Member
It's the legalized side of a trust which is a legal entity. Whilst its not strictly necessary to be a trust it does have advantages - if you porkmeister if anyone else wants to see what these are I would steer you towards the supporters direct website where they explain it all in more detail than I can here.
 
It's the legalized side of a trust which is a legal entity. Whilst its not strictly necessary to be a trust it does have advantages - if you porkmeister if anyone else wants to see what these are I would steer you towards the supporters direct website where they explain it all in more detail than I can here.

Thanks Jan. Still struggling to see the tangible benefits of being legal but here is the gumf from the website:

Why form a Trust? How does it differ from an Independent Supporters' Assocation or supporters' club?
We'd categorise the main difference between a Trust and an ISA as being twofold - ‘attitudinal' and ‘organisational'.

The organisational one is easy: It's our belief that an Industrial and Provident Society (IPS) offers the best way forward for supporters' groups as its legal assets can be owned 'corporately' in a group rather than being vested in individuals. Members also get the benefit of limited liability (and so do the elected officers in most cases) - members are only liable for £1 if anything goes wrong - for example, if the Trust is sued.

As a corporate body, the full force of the law can be brought to bear on anyone who misappropriates the funds. It's also democratic and not-for-profit and states clearly and boldly that a key aim is the securing of representation and strengthening the links between club and community. It's got the 'big idea' that helps get an organisation off the ground - the idea at the heart is "why always be criticising, when we can be running and participating - we think we can bring huge benefits to the club, so give us a chance - to own the club we love (or a part of it)".

As an IPS can own shares or property, it is a vehicle that can ultimately own the club, and at the very least, own a significant shareholding. It can sign contracts with the club for shares received and set the terms of the deal. An ISA (Independent Supporters Association), supporters club or other supporters' group which is unincorporated is on much shakier ground in that regard. So an IPS is robust and can grow with you. The powers exist to employ staff, contract pensions and manage people within a democratic structure. There are businesses that are IPSs that are much bigger than supporters' trusts and clubs. The Co-op Group for example has a turnover of approximately £9 billion each year.

Supporters at a number of clubs have been able to take advantage of their situation by being an IPS. An ISA would be equally concerned about the situation at a club in serious financial trouble, but might struggle to actually buy the club - so just who would buy it exactly? They can raised money and campaign, they want to secure the future of the club, but would they see it as something they could and should do? That's not to disparage those sorts of groups, just to indicate that instead of it being something they might do, it's something a Trust is explicitly there to do.

Finally, the people who get involved in a trust as members know that their money is protected; it can't be spent on anything other than what the constitution says, and anyone who does this can be taken to court.

However, an ISA could still be a trust in the sense that it could convert to be an IPS and want a place on the board - this is where the attitudinal side comes in; it's about putting a professional face to the club and saying 'we're capable, skilled people with something to offer the club.' That doesn't mean that you're unable to criticise or beholden to the club - as a democratic organisation, the members determine your policy and stance towards the club.

An IPS imposes certain disciplines on a group that we think can only be a good thing - democracy, accountability and transparency, and this can only reinforce the points you make. Basically, it comes down to what you want a body to do. In our view, an ISA, whilst a perfectly legitimate form of organisation, often becomes identified with a small band of individuals and might always seems to be criticising (even if it isn't in reality!). It is also limited in how it can grow, and how secure that growth is. A trust, constituted as an IPS stays in existence until its members decide to dissolve it, and so they have greater ability to stay around. Often, ISA's go into a lull when key individuals become inactive. All these are of course applicable to a trust, but the disciplines we mention above make it more likely that weaknesses are identified and rectified. For starters, the act of becoming an IPS is a collaborative effort so you need a good team from the off.

  • Supporters Direct will influence policy and campaign on your behalf to ensure change that promotes and encourages:
    • supporter representation
    • community ownership
    • Spectator sports clubs that protect and enhance their social value
    • Better regulation to help achieve the above aims
  • Supporters Direct will provide you with the tools you need to run an effective supporters' trust
And the more trusts that join, the more we can negotiate deals for member trusts which are better value than individual trusts acting alone can get. We can also commission specialist guidance on issues like director’s responsibilities, or the new Companies Act, and then make it available to trusts free of charge.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top