The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (37 Viewers)

[martcov]

Which tells us everything...they do not speak the same language.

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What, you mean not everyone speaks English? Really?

And that is a reason for leaving the EU?

 

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[martcov]

Yeah, but the Romans were proper good at bumming, in fact, it is historically documented how good they were at bumming (part of daily life they drew pictures and shit) so stop being a homophobe, you racist.

I didn’t criticise the Roman Empire. I didn’t say much about it, apart from Grendel had mixed it up with the Holy Roman Empire which some people think has some similarities with the aims and objectives of the EU ( it does actually ). I pointed out differences to the EU.

I assume you were being sarcastic though...;-)

 

[martcov]

Can someone explain why inflatables of Trump were allowed , whilst the same rubber stuff was taken down of Sadiq Khan.....it's all bullshit for me but why the the distinction ?! .........oh yes it's the usual crying from the snowflakes and bed wetters who somehow actually can't abide by alternative opinion.

The most crying comes from the poor victims. Namely the Trump fans. How did your pro Trump and pro Tommy Robinson March go? Lots of drinking, bottle throwing mouthing off and even blocking a bus driven by a woman wearing a head scarf. Sounds like a great success. Did they obtain permission for the Khan balloon?

 

[martcov]

Can someone explain why inflatables of Trump were allowed , whilst the same rubber stuff was taken down of Sadiq Khan.....it's all bullshit for me but why the the distinction ?! .........oh yes it's the usual crying from the snowflakes and bed wetters who somehow actually can't abide by alternative opinion.

According to the Express ( The Daily Farage) the Khan balloon is planned for August. And Khan is quoted as:
„After it was announced the Trump balloon would be allowed to take off, Mr Khan told Good Morning Britain signalled he would not censor protesters flying a Sadiq Khan balloon as long as it was "peaceful and safe."

Asked whether he would have been fine had the balloon represented him, the London Mayor said: "If it's peaceful and safe, yes. It's not for me to decide what's in good taste or bad taste.

"My views are irrelevant. The issue is, do they have the freedom to protest, freedom to assemble, and should they be allowed to do so? If it's peaceful and it's safe, then they should do so."“

Are we talking about the same thing?

BTW The EU‘s answer to the claim that Juncker was drunk at NATO was that he had Ischias problems. I wasn’t there so I don’t know if the EU or „alternative news“ is telling the truth.

 

[Sick Boy]

Can someone explain why inflatables of Trump were allowed , whilst the same rubber stuff was taken down of Sadiq Khan.....it's all bullshit for me but why the the distinction ?! .........oh yes it's the usual crying from the snowflakes and bed wetters who somehow actually can't abide by alternative opinion.

The "usual crying" comes from the far-right/alt-right more than anyone else.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

The "usual crying" comes from the far-right/alt-right more than anyone else.

Wasn’t the other one two pigs having Anal sex? Not sure it’s the same honestly

 

[Sick Boy]

Wasn’t the other one two pigs having Anal sex? Not sure it’s the same honestly

Erm!

 

[Grendel]

I didn’t criticise the Roman Empire. I didn’t say much about it, apart from Grendel had mixed it up with the Holy Roman Empire which some people think has some similarities with the aims and objectives of the EU ( it does actually ). I pointed out differences to the EU.

I assume you were being sarcastic though...;-)

I didn’t mix it up and the only difference that Hutton was interested in was the power was from Germany which is why he drew that comparison

 

[Grendel]

Martcov now praising the publicity seeking tosser Sadiq Khan whose only interest is to get some cameras focused on him.

 

[skybluetony176]

Tony - Will Hutton is an expert in European affairs as i an sure we both agree. In one of his great researched essays on Europe he likened it to the centralist dictatorial regime of the Roman Empire - are you agreeing with that? I’m still confused as well how centralism - which every EU supporter acknowledges - can be reconciled with a support of devolution

I’d like you to help me with that one Tony if you can

Okay. As you didn’t answer the question I’ll take a guess at the real answer. When you say thesis you actually mean opinion piece in a newspaper column as opposed to a well thought out and research dissertation.

 

[skybluetony176]

I am quoting a view by an esteemed economist who is principal at Hertford College Oxford who says that it is similar in ideology and aims and Germany is now the head of the empire

With respect I think his views on the matter are more worthy of consideration than yours.

Do you think we should have joined the Euro then?

 

[skybluetony176]

Just checked you pillock. You have indeed confused the Roman Empire with the Holy Roman Empire of Charlemagne which ended with Napoleon taking over German principalities. So next time you try to educate me, educate yourself first.

“The Holy Roman Empire was neither Holy, nor Roman, nor an Empire” - Voltaire

It was basically a title given to it by the pope to make it sound important. Wasn’t it born out of the dark ages as well?

 

[skybluetony176]

Just checked you pillock. You have indeed confused the Roman Empire with the Holy Roman Empire of Charlemagne which ended with Napoleon taking over German principalities. So next time you try to educate me, educate yourself first.

Also I did say two pages ago that sounds to me like Grendull was talking bollocks in an attempt to sound educated. Sounds like I was right. Talk about tripping yourself up. Too funny.

 

[skybluetony176]

This is where I get confused by your/Mart arguments. 2014 EU elections had just over 40% turnout...& you happily accept that those elected are done so democratically - & that they represent the will of the people.
Just over 70% turnput for the EU referendum...but the result is deemed both non-representative & not accepted by you

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So the next referendum on EU membership is scheduled for when exactly? You’re confusing elections with referendums. Elections give us the opportunity to change our minds.

 

[martcov]

That could have been written about Trump tbf

Yes. Startling parallels. Surprised that I got an indirect like from Grendel.

 

[martcov]

“The Holy Roman Empire was neither Holy, nor Roman, nor an Empire” - Voltaire

It was basically a title given to it by the pope to make it sound important. Wasn’t it born out of the dark ages as well?

I’ll take Voltaire‘s version over Grendel‘s any day.

 

[martcov]

Martcov now praising the publicity seeking tosser Sadiq Khan whose only interest is to get some cameras focused on him.

I think you are confusing Khan with the real publicity seeking orange tosser that you gladly give a pass to.

 

[skybluetony176]

I’ll take Voltaire‘s version over Grendel‘s any day.

I wonder if he’ll think we should take note of this “thesis” by Will Hutton As their cause crumbles, Brexiters turn to fantasy and bitter recriminations | Will Hutton

Or this one If only Britain had joined the euro | Will Hutton

Or this one For Brexiters, truth is what you believe – even if it’s a lie | Will Hutton

Or this one Brexit is unnecessary. We have a plan to build a modern Britain | Will Hutton and Andrew Adonis

I’m going to guess no. The only article by Will Hutton grendull thinks we should take note of is the one he’s hilariously and catastrophically misunderstood. And then pretended that he didn’t and it was some sort of deliberate trap. Still laughing at that one.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

I don’t happily accept a low turn out. That is a factor in letting in extremism. The EU parliament should have more power. If it did, more people would vote. The countries prefer to keep their power in the Council and keep their veto rights. If the parliament had more power you would call it a superstate. CITED BY MANY AS A REASON TO LEAVE...THEY DON'T WANT THE EU TO HAVE POWER. IT SHOULD BE A FREE TRADE AREA & STOP MESSING WITH OTHER STUFF THAT SHOULDN'T CONCERN THEM.

The result of the referendum is flawed in several ways. Classifying it as an advisory referendum and promising to implement it was a contradiction. Making it binary meant that no one will be happy as there are many interpretations as to what Brexit is and people couldn’t have known what Brexit will actually turn out to be. POSSIBLY YOU MOST SENSIBLE COMMENT ON THE SUBJECT TO DATE. No one had a plan for leaving and no one had asked the EU what deal we would be offered if we left. THEY WON'T TELL US NOW! WHAT MAKES YOU THINK THEY WOULD HAVE THEN? PLUS, WOULD IT HAVE ALL BEEN LIES & MISINFORMATION TO RANK ALONGSIDE WHAT WE GOT ALREADY? ALTHOUGH YOU WOULD EXCUSE THEIR LIES BECAUSE THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN AIMED AT A WINNING REMAIN OUTCOME. Then we had the lies and abuse of social media. ONE SIDE HAS BEEN TARGETTED FOR THAT ABUSE...BUT I WOULD GUESS THERE WAS EQUAL & OPPOSITE ABUSE FROM THE REMAIN SIDE TOO. THAT COULD EXPLAIN THE APPARENT YOUNGER VOTE FAVOURING REMAIN. The collection and use of people‘s private information to influence them had not been regulated. Politicians didn’t even plan for it as they were not experts in that field. APPLIES TO BOTH CAMPS. The emphasis on emotion over fact based argument does make the whole thing dubious. BUT YOU WOULD/DID WILLINGLY ACCEPT THE SAME APPROACH FROM REMAIN! THAT RESULT YOU WOULDN'T HAVE QUESTIONED WHATSOEVER.

The result being so close doesn’t give a strong mandate. You can’t just steamroller over half the population. THE EU DOES ITS BEST...& YOU WOULD PLAN TO GIVE IT MORE POWER??? It is not comparable to an election as there is no provision for voting the other way next time if it goes pear shaped.

And you cannot call it the will of the people when half the people don’t want it. I REFER YOU TO THE POT-KETTLE-BLACK RESPONSE I GAVE EARLIER

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[SkyblueBazza]

What, you mean not everyone speaks English? Really?

And that is a reason for leaving the EU?

Not everyone speaks German, nor has the same ideals as the French, nor the same culture both socially & in business, nor legal interpretations, healthcare priniples, currencies...& many more besides = 'different language'

I forgot your being quite literal & inability to understand simple metaphors.

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[SkyblueBazza]

Martcov now praising the publicity seeking tosser Sadiq Khan whose only interest is to get some cameras focused on him.

But he was quoted as saying "My views are irrelevant..." not sure he meant beyond this balloon issue - but maybe that will come back & bite him on the bum!

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[SkyblueBazza]

So the next referendum on EU membership is scheduled for when exactly? You’re confusing elections with referendums. Elections give us the opportunity to change our minds.

You have the opportunity to change yours too. It is simply that at some point a line has to be drawn & a course of action taken. We were collectively given a chance to choose that course. 'Advisory' is bandied about...& it is starting to look more likely that it will not be a complete break from the EU that some said they wanted, so the advice to make a clean break is not being taken & the course is evolving.
Expect the pace to increase between now & the year end though.

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[martcov]

But he was quoted as saying "My views are irrelevant..." not sure he meant beyond this balloon issue - but maybe that will come back & bite him on the bum!

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It is clear that he is answering a question on peaceful protests. How did the Tommy Robinson protest play out? Insulting and attacking British police and stopping a Muslim female driver. Sounds more like a radical Muslim demonstration- apart from the drunken behaviour of course.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

It is clear that he is answering a question on peaceful protests. How did the Tommy Robinson protest play out? Insulting and attacking British police and stopping a Muslim female driver. Sounds more like a radical Muslim demonstration- apart from the drunken behaviour of course.

No idea nor care about TR & his agenda or tactics. He is an arse who I am sure would find plenty of objection to much of what Trump stands for if he delved into it.
I know what Khan was on about...but just as you & I leapt upon it - those words will have been heard by many who will not necessarily tak it in full context

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[Grendel]

I wonder if he’ll think we should take note of this “thesis” by Will Hutton As their cause crumbles, Brexiters turn to fantasy and bitter recriminations | Will Hutton

Or this one If only Britain had joined the euro | Will Hutton

Or this one For Brexiters, truth is what you believe – even if it’s a lie | Will Hutton

Or this one Brexit is unnecessary. We have a plan to build a modern Britain | Will Hutton and Andrew Adonis

I’m going to guess no. The only article by Will Hutton grendull thinks we should take note of is the one he’s hilariously and catastrophically misunderstood. And then pretended that he didn’t and it was some sort of deliberate trap. Still laughing at that one.

I haven’t misunderstood it all Tony - I’ve had the misfortune of once attending a book signing at which Hutton gave a speech on the subject.

I’ve read numerous articles by Hutton

The reason I bought him up is the fact that he is clearly the source of Martcov and his dribbling lunacy. Some of his quotes are word for word the same.

The only difference he sees between the two Empire structures is the German influence which on the one hand Martcov ignores but on the other hand assured us there is no German influences

 

[chiefdave]

Can someone explain why inflatables of Trump were allowed , whilst the same rubber stuff was taken down of Sadiq Khan.....it's all bullshit for me but why the the distinction ?! .........oh yes it's the usual crying from the snowflakes and bed wetters who somehow actually can't abide by alternative opinion.

Not sure what you're referring to, have tried googling but nothing coming up.

The Trump balloon was given the required permission to fly and Khan has already gone on the record to say he would grant permission for any similar balloon aimed at him.

The crowd funding campaign for that, oddly being run by some chap in Barcelona, hasn't even closed yet so the money won't have been drawn down to get it made let alone any attempt to launch it.

 

[skybluetony176]

I haven’t misunderstood it all Tony - I’ve had the misfortune of once attending a book signing at which Hutton gave a speech on the subject.

I’ve read numerous articles by Hutton

The reason I bought him up is the fact that he is clearly the source of Martcov and his dribbling lunacy. Some of his quotes are word for word the same.

The only difference he sees between the two Empire structures is the German influence which on the one hand Martcov ignores but on the other hand assured us there is no German influences

He’s your source. Don’t recall anyone mentioning him before you yesterday. Presumably you fell asleep during his speech and missed the crucial details. Like The Roman Empire shouldn’t be confused with The Holy Roman Empire.

 

[Grendel]

He’s your source. Don’t recall anyone mentioning him before you yesterday. Presumably you fell asleep during his speech and missed the crucial details. Like The Roman Empire shouldn’t be confused with The Holy Roman Empire.

There is no confusion Tony as I’ve explained - I think that’s your domain (remember Geoffrey Howe) and the source wasn’t that article it was from one of his ghastly books

Martcov bases his entire posting and “knowledge” from him and another even more dribbling europhile whose name I cannot yet recall.

Even some of those articles you’ve posted are word for word Martcov posts.

 

[skybluetony176]

There is no confusion Tony as I’ve explained - I think that’s your domain (remember Geoffrey Howe) and the source wasn’t that article it was from one of his ghastly books

Martcov bases his entire posting and “knowledge” from him and another even more dribbling europhile whose name I cannot yet recall.

Even some of those articles you’ve posted are word for word Martcov posts.

There wasn’t any confusion, you’re right on that score. You haven’t progress as far as confusion you’re stuck on complete misunderstanding. Mart put you right and the narcissist in you won’t let you put your hands up and admit it so you start a new charade of it being a delicate trap and then start pointing in the other direction to draw attention from your own misunderstanding. You’re modus operandi is well recognised now. You’re only fooling yourself.

 

[martcov]

There is no confusion Tony as I’ve explained - I think that’s your domain (remember Geoffrey Howe) and the source wasn’t that article it was from one of his ghastly books

Martcov bases his entire posting and “knowledge” from him and another even more dribbling europhile whose name I cannot yet recall.

Even some of those articles you’ve posted are word for word Martcov posts.

No, I don’t. I had never heard of him before you mentioned him in your confusion about the Holy Roman Empire. If he is using the same arguments as myself, then it is either pure coincidence, or he is following the discussion on here. Seeing as you class him as very learned and he and myself come to similar conclusions, then you must be complementing me.

 

[Grendel]

No, I don’t. I had never heard of him before you mentioned him in your confusion about the Holy Roman Empire. If he is using the same arguments as myself, then it is either pure coincidence, or he is following the discussion on here. Seeing as you class him as very learned and he and myself come to similar conclusions, then you must be complementing me.

No he’s an utter wanker

 

[Grendel]

May trying to talk tough in the MOS today and insisting the Eu will have to take the white paper.

Unlikely it will get through Parliament with both sides ready to revel. As Mogg says the Eu need us as much as we need them and it’s time this was recognised.

 

[skybluetony176]

No, I don’t. I had never heard of him before you mentioned him in your confusion about the Holy Roman Empire. If he is using the same arguments as myself, then it is either pure coincidence, or he is following the discussion on here. Seeing as you class him as very learned and he and myself come to similar conclusions, then you must be complementing me.

Apparently your views are comparable to “a view by an esteemed economist who is principal at Hertford College Oxford” although confusingly “his views are more worthy of consideration than yours”. Strange, given that you base your “entire posting and “knowledge” based on his writings. Maybe Grendull is confused afterall. He’s certainly incoherent.

 

[Grendel]

Apparently your views are comparable to “a view by an esteemed economist who is principal at Hertford College Oxford” although confusingly “his views are more worthy of consideration than yours”. Strange, given that you base your “entire posting and “knowledge” based on his writings. Maybe Grendull is confused afterall. He’s certainly incoherent.

Need I to start using crayons Tony as I’ve made the point several times.

 

[skybluetony176]

Need I to start using crayons Tony as I’ve made the point several times.

You’ve made several points several times. Unfortunately for you they’re all contradictory to each other. You’re all over the place. All the quotes were yours by the way in my OP just to demonstrate the point. If I’m using crayons they’re your crayons.