The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (349 Viewers)

[Astute]

It sometimes seems to me that Mr Barnier's constant objections to any proposal put forward by UK is an attempt to force us out with no deal, rather than an attempt to make us stay.

I would think the same if I didn't know they want us to stay in at what seems like any cost.

 

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[shmmeee]

It sometimes seems to me that Mr Barnier's constant objections to any proposal put forward by UK is an attempt to force us out with no deal, rather than an attempt to make us stay.

Alternatively our continual attempts to cross the EUs very well publicised rules and red lines could be seen as an attempt by our government who have consistently pushed for the hardest of Brexits to get a no deal and manage to blame it all on the EU.

I mean blaming literally every bad government decision on the EU has worked for decades with their base, why stop now?

 

[Astute]

I suggest you look into big data and use of advertising. This is close to my field and you're being very very naive to be so blasé about targeted advertising. It works spectacularly well.

All modern advertising and marketing is about optimising message for individuals, A/B testing the crap out of everything until you get the result you want down to the exact words used. You'd be amazed how easy it is to hack human preference.

Facebook in particular is effective because it comes with ready made social proof, "ads" are inserted into your feed next to your best mate or family members opinion. It's been shown time and time again how effective they can be.

Or do you think the Brexit team were so fucking useless they wasted huge amounts of time and effort on something that doesn't work?

Like I said I don't have a clue on how Farcebook works. I didn't trust it when it started and I certainly don't trust it now.

But the question was which is the most important. Ads on Farcebook or the dodgy dealings at the top of the EU.

Are you now implying that we voted leave because Farcebook said to?

 

[Astute]

Alternatively our continual attempts to cross the EUs very well publicised rules and red lines could be seen as an attempt by our government who have consistently pushed for the hardest of Brexits to get a no deal and manage to blame it all on the EU.

I mean blaming literally every bad government decision on the EU has worked for decades with their base, why stop now?

So what are these well publicised rules and red lines?

It isn't as though they would bend them or worse themselves is it...........

 

[Grendel]

I suggest you look into big data and use of advertising. This is close to my field and you're being very very naive to be so blasé about targeted advertising. It works spectacularly well.

All modern advertising and marketing is about optimising message for individuals, A/B testing the crap out of everything until you get the result you want down to the exact words used. You'd be amazed how easy it is to hack human preference.

Facebook in particular is effective because it comes with ready made social proof, "ads" are inserted into your feed next to your best mate or family members opinion. It's been shown time and time again how effective they can be.

Or do you think the Brexit team were so fucking useless they wasted huge amounts of time and money on something that doesn't work?

They had first mover advantage here. Next election everyone will be at it.

The point is both sides spent a considerable amount in this field. The remain campaign in effect spent substantially more as the government spend huge amounts at the start of the campaign targeting registration of people to vote - specifically aimed at young voters who were likely to vote remain - and labour spent over 1 million on a campaign targeting a remain message.

 

[Astute]

The point is both sides spent a considerable amount in this field. The remain campaign in effect spent substantially more as the government spend huge amounts at the start of the campaign targeting registration of people to vote - specifically aimed at young voters who were likely to vote remain - and labour spent over 1 million on a campaign targeting a remain message.

Hold on Grendel. We are talking only about the leave side. We don't talk about the remain side because remain lost. Don't mention the £9,000,000 or so spent on the reasons to remain that the government spent putting a flyer through every door in the UK either as we are not talking about flyers.

 

[Sick Boy]

So it is the fault of the UK that the EU are refusing every type of deal put forward so far and won't say what they would be happy with other than they don't want us to leave and will do anything they can to make us stay?

And how about the reality and not just words on how much people of the EU depend on us?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnmauldin/2016/07/10/heres-how-much-europe-depends-on-the-uk/

We have a massive trade deficit with the EU but trade surplus with the rest of the world

Why the UK trade deficit with the EU is woeful and widening | Larry Elliott

So no jobs in the EU depend on the UK? Not true is it. Even thousands of car workers in Germany depend on us. And Germany is the richest country in the EU by far. Do we count money spent with holidays? Or do we only count what you want us to count?

How's it the EU's fault that it is fighting for the best deal for itself? I thought that Britain was supposed to have the upper-hand? What happened there?

You've gone from millions depending on the UK in the EU to no jobs being dependent, wtf. In that case, there are jobs in the UK that are dependent on the EU.

Money spent on holidays - haha! Other countries go on holiday, it's not just Brits who holiday internally in the EU.

 

[Sick Boy]

Hold on Grendel. We are talking only about the leave side. We don't talk about the remain side because remain lost. Don't mention the £9,000,000 or so spent on the reasons to remain that the government spent putting a flyer through every door in the UK either as we are not talking about flyers.

We've already discussed it a few days ago. It was a massive waste of money tbf and would have been better invested elsewhere.

 

[Grendel]

We've already discussed it a few days ago. It was a massive waste of money tbf and would have been better invested elsewhere.

But also targeting through social media was done by both sides wasn’t it?

 

[Sick Boy]

But also targeting through social media was done by both sides wasn’t it?

Yes of course it was but which one has been reported to the police? A small matter I know in a democratic election.

 

[Grendel]

Yes of course it was but which one has been reported to the police? A small matter I know in a democratic election.

The campaign on social media has been reported to the police?

 

[martcov]

Personally I would like to think that our army is always on standby! Sensationalism? Fake news?

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Do you know what being on standby is?

 

[martcov]

So what are these well publicised rules and red lines?

It isn't as though they would bend them or worse themselves is it...........

Try their website... 4 freedoms... single market.... customs union. Now show us the workable proposals from the UK.

 

[Sick Boy]

The campaign on social media has been reported to the police?

Electoral Commission | Vote Leave fined and referred to the police for breaking electoral law

I think BeLeave's campaign was supposed to be targeting younger audiences but the Ads actually got served to a much older demographic.

 

[martcov]

Like I said I don't have a clue on how Farcebook works. I didn't trust it when it started and I certainly don't trust it now.

But the question was which is the most important. Ads on Farcebook or the dodgy dealings at the top of the EU.

Are you now implying that we voted leave because Farcebook said to?

No, because some were convinced by targeting on social media.

 

[Sick Boy]

No, because some were convinced by targeting on social media.

He claims he wasn't aware of the controversy with the Facebook Ads and Cambridge Analytica, sounds like he has a lot of reading up to do.

Unless it was another Trumpesque alternative fact.

 

[Astute]

How's it the EU's fault that it is fighting for the best deal for itself? I thought that Britain was supposed to have the upper-hand? What happened there?

You've gone from millions depending on the UK in the EU to no jobs being dependent, wtf. In that case, there are jobs in the UK that are dependent on the EU.

Money spent on holidays - haha! Other countries go on holiday, it's not just Brits who holiday internally in the EU.

Of course it all means nothing to you.

The UK has the upper hand? So who has said that on here?

The EU has the upper hand. They can break rules whenever they feel like it. And they won't tell us what our rules are.

 

[Astute]

We've already discussed it a few days ago. It was a massive waste of money tbf and would have been better invested elsewhere.

We have discussed several times what you want to talk about.

So why do you want to revisit it yet again if the flyer thing should only be questioned once?

 

[Astute]

Do you know what being on standby is?

Do you?

 

[Astute]

Try their website... 4 freedoms... single market.... customs union. Now show us the workable proposals from the UK.

So any country that wants to trade with the EU needs to be in the single market and have open borders?

 

[Sick Boy]

Of course it all means nothing to you.

The UK has the upper hand? So who has said that on here?

The EU has the upper hand. They can break rules whenever they feel like it. And they won't tell us what our rules are.

Plenty claimed it on here, as did Brexit ministers in the press. What do you mean 'what our rules are'?

Face it, the UK bluffed its hand and at the moment looks like it is going to be humiliated or turfed out with no deal.

 

[Sick Boy]

So any country that wants to trade with the EU needs to be in the single market and have open borders?

Have you actually been following negotiations?

 

[Astute]

Electoral Commission | Vote Leave fined and referred to the police for breaking electoral law

I think BeLeave's campaign was supposed to be targeting younger audiences but the Ads actually got served to a much older demographic.

So back to the point of the flyers.

Vote leave spent 500k over the 7m allowed.

The flyers for remain alone cost about 9m.

One rule for remain another rule for leave?

 

[martcov]

So what is the lie?

Are you saying that no jobs in the EU depend on trade with us?

The EU is a power trip for many. It is more important to look after the future of the EU than look after the residents of the EU. If we make a success of leaving the EU what will stop other countries in the EU from following us?

Brexiteers don't want to lead discussions? Have you not read the news? Out means out to those who want out. The plans of May have been steered to half in and half out. They don't see it as out.

May doesn't want out. The EU won't allow us to leave if they can help it. And nobody can deny that they are trying their best to make us stay.

Your opinions. Now, where are the Brexiteers when you need them? The leading ones have resigned and joined Rees Mogg in the wings. They have had 2 years to put something together. Nothing. Left it to May and let her take the flak.

If anyone doesn’t read news it is you as you miss Farage threatening a comeback and praising the far right Bannon.

The EU will allow us to leave on their terms as we have not been able to put a workable proposal together in 2 years. At the end of the day we will take what we are given.

If we make a success of leaving, do you think other countries will risk it? We are the country with a trading history, a world financial capital and geographically we have no land borders with millions crossing them to and from work in another country every day. We have more going for us than most. Us succeeding won’t mean Estonia or Hungary leaving ( as an example). People are not bothered about your issues. They want to live and work with their freedoms and one single currency so they can ship in other countries bordering theirs if they find it cheaper. NRW gets millions in shopping by Dutch people coming to Germany for certain goods. It is normal here to cross EU borders. I doubt most people want the EU to end. Britain has been whipped up to an anti EU frenzy by the constant targeting of anti EU propaganda and the Brexit press. It doesn’t reflect the rest of Europe.

 

[Astute]

He claims he wasn't aware of the controversy with the Facebook Ads and Cambridge Analytica, sounds like he has a lot of reading up to do.

Unless it was another Trumpesque alternative fact.

Cambridge Analytica yes. You made that part up. Nothing unusual there though.

So did you know about Selmayr before I mentioned him? If not why not?

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Do you know what being on standby is?

Something completely different in the real world compared to MartWorld...of that I am sure

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[Astute]

Have you actually been following negotiations?

What negotiations?

Saying something isn't allowed but not saying what is allowed or even getting guidance on what would be allowed is not negotiating.

 

[Sick Boy]

What negotiations?

Saying something isn't allowed but not saying what is allowed or even getting guidance on what would be allowed is not negotiating.

How is there not guidance? Both sides have highlighted their red flags.

 

[Astute]

Plenty claimed it on here, as did Brexit ministers in the press. What do you mean 'what our rules are'?

Face it, the UK bluffed its hand and at the moment looks like it is going to be humiliated or turfed out with no deal.

So when did the UK bluff?

We certainly didn't know how bent the EU is. We are finding out as we go along.

 

[Astute]

How is there not guidance? Both sides have highlighted their red flags.

So what guidance has the EU given to what will be allowed?

 

[martcov]

So back to the point of the flyers.

Vote leave spent 500k over the 7m allowed.

The flyers for remain alone cost about 9m.

One rule for remain another rule for leave?

It wasn’t remain. It was the government laying out why it was for remain and it was outside of the campaign. It also backfired because it wasn’t a strategic marketing tool and was too neutral as opposed to leave propaganda. Wasn’t designed to appeal to positive emotions.. the warnings were dismissed as fear mongering.

 

[Sick Boy]

Cambridge Analytica yes. You made that part up. Nothing unusual there though.

So did you know about Selmayr before I mentioned him? If not why not?

You said you were unaware of the issues surrounding Facebook and the referendum, not me.

Yes I was aware of him but don't pretend the EU is perfect either, as I have said countless times. Personally, I find the inherited power of monarchies to be wrong as well.

Do you?

 

[Sick Boy]

So back to the point of the flyers.

Vote leave spent 500k over the 7m allowed.

The flyers for remain alone cost about 9m.

One rule for remain another rule for leave?

The flyers were not part of the remain campaign and were issued by the government. I don't vote for them, so don't look at me!

I'd have rather seen the money go to a foodbank to make up for their policies.

 

[martcov]

So when did the UK bluff?

We certainly didn't know how bent the EU is. We are finding out as we go along.

No. The EU are sticking to their rules and we are finding out how leave manipulated the vote through FB and how bent leading leave figures are.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

And though I believe the provisions ARE already in place (for similar events resulting from overseas war/disease of crops abroad etc)...since some believe what officials are quoted as saying - here is one from Reuters...
'The spokesman added that, contrary to some media reports, there were no plans to involve the army in its 'no deal' provisions, especially regarding food supplies.'
Or if you want the whole article..."Britain to set out 'sensible precautions' for no deal Brexit - May's spokesman" - Britain to set out 'sensible precautions' for no deal Brexit -...

So when it comes to claiming others have been led up the garden path - think about yourselves, & consider things before leaping in to score points

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