Grendel
Well-Known Member
Yes - fake news
The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (193 Viewers)
- Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
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Yes - fake news
Good.
No bollocks. It means they are reducing common agricultural payments and cohesive policy payments ( modestly). Which is confirmed by Astute‘s posted link.
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
No because some only see negatives in Brexit and refuse to accept or sneer at anyone suggesting positives exist. Bit like yourself..?
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Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Again, the opposite POV can be said for others on this thread, I wonder why you don't call them out though?
Astute
Well-Known Member
What is good?
That the budget will have 14.4 billions less without the UK or that if any country doesn't do as they are told they will get kicked out?
Astute
Well-Known Member
Because 99% of what is spoken about is how shit it will be for the UK after leaving. And said by those who don't have a clue about any deal that might be done. The rest of the arguing is countering the bullshit as mentioned.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
In terms of general contribution it’s bullshit and you know it. You said earlier countries are queuing to join the Eu. Net contributors - no just replacing the funding of the German hut of the Romanian tourist board.
Astute
Well-Known Member
More like reducing payments to rich landowners. It would be a travesty if the rich landowners kept their money and the farmers suffered.
But nobody would be surprised if it was the rich landowners kept their money though.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
So 99% of posts on here are anti-Brexit? You're off your head.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
How do you think British farmers would get on in the event of a no deal and a deal with the US being struck?
Astute
Well-Known Member
More like 99% of what is said is about how good the EU is and how thick/racist the leave voters are and the replies to this bullshit.
So how would you say it is?
Astute
Well-Known Member
The rich landowners would lose more. That shows how bad it is.
Do you know how much it would affect the farmers? The money is given for food not to be grown mainly. It is to keep food prices high. It helps the French farmers the most. It has been proven that food prices will drop when we leave. But that doesn't go with what you want everyone to believe.
The USA? I thought we would starve and the army would take over once we leave.
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
THing is you say that is if it's just a few of us on here are saying, "it will be shit". It's not just a handful of blokes on a football forum. The Government's own analysis shows that Britain, me, you and everyone else is going to be a lot poorer after Brexit, especially if there's a "no deal".
" The industries that suffer most include chemicals, food and drink, cars and retailing. The areas of the country hit hardest include the north-east, the north-west and the West Midlands, all of which voted heavily for Brexit. London escapes relatively lightly. The public finances suffer too. The FTA option will add £55bn ($75bn) to annual public borrowing in 15 years’ time."
So, the Government's own impact assessments predict the economy will tank, along with jobs, manufacturing, scientific research. And the non-Government assessments are even more scathing.
Not having a go at anyone on here, but just sayin', chances are things will be shit.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
The stock markets and pension funds are advising that there is never a better time to purchase uk stocks as they are already at a level that assumes the worst possible scenario from Brexit - to suggest we will overnight resemble a third world economy because we no longer bung £19 billion a year into 27 other countries is somewhat absurd.
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
You're wasted on here obviously. Go and advise the Government. I'm sure they'd appreciate the help.
I don’t usually see much said about how good the EU is. Just people asking how good is Brexit going to be and what benefits will there be that we don’t have now. People list the faults of the EU, but no one knows how to get out without hurting ourselves.
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
I've yet to hear any good reason for Brexit. My Dad voted to leave and when I asked him why he said it was because he wanted things to be like they were when he was a kid in the 40s and 50s. Sad, but true.
Astute
Well-Known Member
A government run by remainers that constantly has remainers having a go at them. They are trying to make a deal with the EU who don't want to make a deal. So both sides don't want to make a leave deal.
Yes if there is no deal it COULD get a bit tough for a bit. But it won't make us destitute. The EU wants us to have a very bad time. They want to warn others what will happen if they decide to lose.
But back to earth. Only 13% of what we make goes to the EU. We will be able to make our own deals when we have left. If it does go as bad as you like to say the GBP will take a hit. It will make whatever we produce cheaper. That is why it won't be a long term thing like many seem to hope.
But you are only considering one scenario and won't consider the realities if it does happen.
Astute
Well-Known Member
I didn't say how good the EU is. Because it isn't. I said the benefits of being in.
But you take over every discussion on here with your POV and don't like it when anything else is spoken about.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
The same government that said they’d be an emergency budget the day after the result if it was to leave
Nice to see you now worship at the Tory church though and believe every word they say.
Didn’t you used to say Tories were liars and wankers? Now they are trying to protect the working classes and saying that the Labour Party leader is talking shite.
Ok
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Well, that's the thing isn't it? Rees-Mogg, Johnson et al certainly won't be destitute, will they? Maybe you're one of the "us" you're talking about there, but there are millions it will affect quite badly. How long will people have to put up with the mess. We used to get the "it will be a land of milk and honey" spiel from politicians but now even Rees-Mogg has said we might not feel the benefits of Brexit for 50 years. That certainly will be "a bit tough".
Astute
Well-Known Member
Being able to make our own laws and not having them made for us by the EU.
Not being ordered what to do by a crooked organisation.
Being able to bring in the right skills mix and not just by what passport is held.
Being able to make our own trade deals around the world instead of 28 countries trying to decide on a deal each time.
Not having to pump many billions a year into an organisation we hardly have any say on.
How is that for starters?
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Ha, I will never worship at the Tory church. Sadly nor the Labour one until Corbyn has gone. I am, as they say, politically homeless. Tories are liars and wankers. All of them. Most of Labours front bench too.
Astute
Well-Known Member
What proof do you have on that it WILL?
It is all down to what sort of deal that is made and planning. But I don't trust the Tories and I certainly don't trust May.
Astute
Well-Known Member
At least we agree on something 100%
Grendel
Well-Known Member
If Tories are liars and wankers why are you quoting a lot of their releases as factually accurate?
What laws don’t you like? Most EU laws are on fact rules or directives to do with trade. Parliament makes laws the whole time. But, you don’t seem to watch much news, so maybe you miss things like that.
Who has ordered you what to do?
FOM has been a great help to Britain. Our economy was 2nd best in the G7. We don’t just need skilled workers, but there are a large proportion of skilled EU workers e.g. in construction and care. We will miss them.
Trade deals will have to be made, which takes time and the outcome is dependent on the attitude of the trading partner. If we start on WTO terms we will have to have our quotas etc approved by the 164 members. Any one of which can object. We lose the WTO terms which we enjoy as EU members.
We will also have to have a hard border in Ireland according to WTO rules .
We will have to replace the agencies and administrative bureaucracy of the EU with extra civil servants and pay a divorce bill. Our GDP will probably drop as we lose our favourable status. Which means less tax revenue. It will take time to balance the extra costs against the relatively ( in GDP ) terms small cost of our net contribution .. if we even achieve that.
We have already started spending billions increasing our border force and customs facilities. Plus we will soon have a 26 mile M26 car park with one set of toilets and a café.
The costs of delays in man hours are hard to predict, but it will increase firms costs and lower productivity.
For starters, I would say not very impressive. On the other hand, Juncker........
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
Becaise at various points I think all of them have expressed concerns about Brexit & some positive(s) about the EU.
Polarisation has happened because of polarised views & sweeping generalisations of some, yet unrelenting defence of any criticism of the EU.
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Really? Looked in a mirror lately?
Maybe I just don’t like EU migrants being blamed for things and FOM described as „just wrong“.
Seeing as I am an EU migrant, it is something I know about first hand. I know how much I have put into the country where I live.
I also have seen the areas where Jews once lived, where synagogues once were - before Kristallnacht - and where people were incarcerated ( Dachau ), and I certainly don’t like the fear mongering and demonising of Muslims and snide comments against various peoples such as Romanians and Germans.
The EU is the end of that, it is more than a just deal for chlorinated chicken and hormone beef with a country led by an orange buffoon. It is the peoples of Europe living, trading and working together for the common prosperity of Europe and themselves in peace and democracy. Juncker pulling off an appointment, or drinking brandy is a laughable triviality in the bigger picture. Juncker should be pulled up on these things of course, but to make an assessment on the greatest political achievement ever in Europe based on Juncker is a joke.
Astute
Well-Known Member
There you go again Mart. What MIGHT happen is a true fact to you. Just shows how biased you are. And proves my point that comments made by people like you (mainly you) is what this thread is all about. Trying to show that most of what you say isn't true or only might happen.
So EU laws are only to do with trade? Wrong. They even cover what light bulbs can be used or that vacuum cleaners must be of a lower power. But how about those which are to do with trade loosely? And those that are to do with trading cost us billions and restricts trading.
The EU has destroyed some of our most prosperous industries - and will continue to do so
Motorways WILL become a car park? Could and might are the words being used. But to you it becomes a certainty.
And here you go again on making bending of EU rules seem trivial. You say that Juncker should be looked into. But you know he won't. Because he would be the one in charge of looking at what he has done. How about Selmayr? Everyone knows it was also wrong. Juncker helped get him his position. You are one of the rare people who defends it. The EU is in uproar over the matter. But yet again it is down to Juncker to look into it. He refused saying he would prefer to resign. So that can't happen either. But nothing would happen even if they did as it is a job for life. He can't be removed from the job.
Immigration? As usual you make up your own facts. You make out that people say things they haven't. And you twist words and the truth to make out that all is OK. I said that we need to be able to bring in the right skills mix. You say the building trade would suffer. Is that because the builders are really brain surgeons and would leave the building trade? Of course not. So as usual I can't work out any relevance to the point you pretend to make. The right skills mix is just that. Skilled Labour. Not removing it from one place to cover another.
So EU laws are only to do with trade? Wrong. They even cover what light bulbs can be used or that vacuum cleaners must be of a lower power. But how about those which are to do with trade loosely? And those that are to do with trading cost us billions and restricts trading.
The EU has destroyed some of our most prosperous industries - and will continue to do so
Motorways WILL become a car park? Could and might are the words being used. But to you it becomes a certainty.
And here you go again on making bending of EU rules seem trivial. You say that Juncker should be looked into. But you know he won't. Because he would be the one in charge of looking at what he has done. How about Selmayr? Everyone knows it was also wrong. Juncker helped get him his position. You are one of the rare people who defends it. The EU is in uproar over the matter. But yet again it is down to Juncker to look into it. He refused saying he would prefer to resign. So that can't happen either. But nothing would happen even if they did as it is a job for life. He can't be removed from the job.
Immigration? As usual you make up your own facts. You make out that people say things they haven't. And you twist words and the truth to make out that all is OK. I said that we need to be able to bring in the right skills mix. You say the building trade would suffer. Is that because the builders are really brain surgeons and would leave the building trade? Of course not. So as usual I can't work out any relevance to the point you pretend to make. The right skills mix is just that. Skilled Labour. Not removing it from one place to cover another.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
The only poster I've seen do that is Fernando. Both sides have pretty entrenched views and are probably guilty of generalisations.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Can you show any evidence of food prices dropping? Would you be happy at the prospect of dropping food standards to accommodate the USA's succulent chlorine washed chicken and the knock on effect it would have on our standards here?
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
I'd say that overall there are more Leave voters who dip into the thread, but with a hardcore/saddo 50/50 remain leave split of regular posters.
Laws or rules covering light bulbs are to do with trading goods and product efficiency and safety. Most are trade, workers rights, product safety, intellectual property, financial systems.
We make the laws directly to do with our lives, such as what sentences criminals get. Are you really leaving because of light bulbs in vacuum cleaners? How do the other 27 survive? It is not an issue in the German media.
Your Tory leaver paper link quotes trade laws. The auction houses having to pay copyright to the artist fees being an example. China ignoring the artist‘s intellectual property is well known.
All other EU countries have to follow the same rules as us. How on earth is Germany able to survive and we cannot? The Tory poses the question if the EU is trying to do destroy us by curbing the finance industry or protecting intellectual property and consumers. That’s it. He posed a question, no facts. At least the EU is trying to protect us and make the finance industry pay and accept regulations after the disaster it caused, which we bailed out as workers and small traders.
The transaction charge on banks was called for following the crash when people were even more annoyed than you about Juncker. The banks and finance industry, which this Tory Brexiteer is showing as potential victims, got away with murder and the people speculating were not paying into the bailing out of the finance sector caused by their actions. The transition fee was to at least make them pay something. We pay taxes when we work. The thinking behind it wasn’t evil.
The EU is angry about the appointment in March, but there are more important things and it will not break up because of Juncker. More important is dealing with Trump and Brexit.
Your Tory leave paper is angry. I don’t care. Fair play to the EU, if those people are moaning about the regulations protecting us, the EU must be doing something right.