The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (139 Viewers)

[Astute]

The model of moving if you have a job is not open borders though and it would involve some sort of ongoing Visa.

I have Irish citizenship, so it's not about me, it's about those UK residents who are going to lose their rights.

More like you think it is about visas.

The last few days has shown you that we know nothing and will have to see what happens.

And I haven't been far off so far have I although I have been told on here countless times that I don't have a clue. I have been told that I speak nonsense and all that sort. Even Mart has stopped posting 100 times a day. But he sneaks in an agreement with you.

There isn't even a guarantee that we will leave the EU yet. Remember out means out. We need the EU and the EU needs us.

Now both sides are showing a will to talk we can move forward. I can see some sort of annual payment being made. It all depends on what sort of trade agreement we can come to. And at a guess....and like my guess has been all the way along is something similar to now. It would solve the Irish problem. EU countries would be better off. Our trade wouldn't suffer. Win win all round.

Next would be our borders. Anyone making out that they know would just be making an uneducated guess. But some will make you think that they know. But I can see joint security. Maybe a quota each year on how many can come here. There could be a points system. Points gained by job prospects and if they already have family here maybe.

But to me this is where idiot season starts. I can see a deal down the middle. Those Pro EU and nothing else will do even if the basics of what they want is given. So they will continue to complain and make stories up. Those Brexiteers who want out at any cost will be complaining and making up stories about all the bad that will happen. But the majority that have the capability to think and consider the options will know that it is the best that can happen in the situation we are in.

I never thought I would say it but maybe May is doing a good job behind the scenes. It was never going to be easy. But millions will disagree as they are not getting exactly what they wanted.

 

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[martcov]

More like you think it is about visas.

The last few days has shown you that we know nothing and will have to see what happens.

And I haven't been far off so far have I although I have been told on here countless times that I don't have a clue. I have been told that I speak nonsense and all that sort. Even Mart has stopped posting 100 times a day. But he sneaks in an agreement with you.

There isn't even a guarantee that we will leave the EU yet. Remember out means out. We need the EU and the EU needs us.

Now both sides are showing a will to talk we can move forward. I can see some sort of annual payment being made. It all depends on what sort of trade agreement we can come to. And at a guess....and like my guess has been all the way along is something similar to now. It would solve the Irish problem. EU countries would be better off. Our trade wouldn't suffer. Win win all round.

Next would be our borders. Anyone making out that they know would just be making an uneducated guess. But some will make you think that they know. But I can see joint security. Maybe a quota each year on how many can come here. There could be a points system. Points gained by job prospects and if they already have family here maybe.

But to me this is where idiot season starts. I can see a deal down the middle. Those Pro EU and nothing else will do even if the basics of what they want is given. So they will continue to complain and make stories up. Those Brexiteers who want out at any cost will be complaining and making up stories about all the bad that will happen. But the majority that have the capability to think and consider the options will know that it is the best that can happen in the situation we are in.

I never thought I would say it but maybe May is doing a good job behind the scenes. It was never going to be easy. But millions will disagree as they are not getting exactly what they .

I happen to be working. And I am in Berlin on an event with 2.2 Kilometer of different beer stands. Weather blue skies and over 30 degrees. Loads of beautiful women. Wish I was 26 and good looking. International public. Laid back. Seen no trouble. 700 or 800000 visitors expected. Doesn’t mean I agee or disagree with what you say. Some progress to keeping things as they are or as near as, must be good news. For rational people. The obvious question is, is all this stress and divisiveness worth it? And you are right, the Brexiteers will be frothing at the mouth if what you claim will happen comes true.

 

[Sick Boy]

More like you think it is about visas.

The last few days has shown you that we know nothing and will have to see what happens.

And I haven't been far off so far have I although I have been told on here countless times that I don't have a clue. I have been told that I speak nonsense and all that sort. Even Mart has stopped posting 100 times a day. But he sneaks in an agreement with you.

There isn't even a guarantee that we will leave the EU yet. Remember out means out. We need the EU and the EU needs us.

Now both sides are showing a will to talk we can move forward. I can see some sort of annual payment being made. It all depends on what sort of trade agreement we can come to. And at a guess....and like my guess has been all the way along is something similar to now. It would solve the Irish problem. EU countries would be better off. Our trade wouldn't suffer. Win win all round.

Next would be our borders. Anyone making out that they know would just be making an uneducated guess. But some will make you think that they know. But I can see joint security. Maybe a quota each year on how many can come here. There could be a points system. Points gained by job prospects and if they already have family here maybe.

But to me this is where idiot season starts. I can see a deal down the middle. Those Pro EU and nothing else will do even if the basics of what they want is given. So they will continue to complain and make stories up. Those Brexiteers who want out at any cost will be complaining and making up stories about all the bad that will happen. But the majority that have the capability to think and consider the options will know that it is the best that can happen in the situation we are in.

I never thought I would say it but maybe May is doing a good job behind the scenes. It was never going to be easy. But millions will disagree as they are not getting exactly what they wanted.

How is May doing a good job? She is the weakest PM I can remember in my lifetime, is dictated to by backbenchers and infamous for doing U-turns.

 

[Astute]

How is May doing a good job? She is the weakest PM I can remember in my lifetime, is dictated to by backbenchers and infamous for doing U-turns.

I said might be.

So last week you and Mart were going on about us running out of food and medicine. That the army would have to take over. That there would never be a trade deal. That we were going to be in the shite. That the EU wouldn't make a deal because they didn't need to.

Now Barnier says about a deal being made. And also changing the wording to do with us leaving.

So what has caused the massive change?

Whoever is the one who has made this change has done a good job. Agreed?

 

[Sick Boy]

I said might be.

So last week you and Mart were going on about us running out of food and medicine. That the army would have to take over. That there would never be a trade deal. That we were going to be in the shite. That the EU wouldn't make a deal because they didn't need to.

Now Barnier says about a deal being made. And also changing the wording to do with us leaving.

So what has caused the massive change?

Whoever is the one who has made this change has done a good job. Agreed?

Nothing has been agreed yet whatsoever and yesterday he issued a rebuke to May's proposals. I'm not the one planning on stockpiling food and medicines, it's actually the government which you're so eager to lavish praise upon

 

[Astute]

I happen to be working. And I am in Berlin on an event with 2.2 Kilometer of different beer stands. Weather blue skies and over 30 degrees. Loads of beautiful women. Wish I was 26 and good looking. International public. Laid back. Seen no trouble. 700 or 800000 visitors expected. Doesn’t mean I agee or disagree with what you say. Some progress to keeping things as they are or as near as, must be good news. For rational people. The obvious question is, is all this stress and divisiveness worth it? And you are right, the Brexiteers will be frothing at the mouth if what you claim will happen comes true.

You have always said you are working. But it never stopped you being on here 24 hours a day :smuggrin:

 

[Astute]

Nothing has been agreed yet whatsoever and yesterday he issued a rebuke to May's proposals. I'm not the one planning on stockpiling food and medicines, it's actually the government which you're so eager to lavish praise upon

Lavish praise?

So you are still pushing the truth to the limit I see.

So what bad did Barnier say yesterday? Because if he had said anything bad it would have been plastered on here over many pages by now. That is the way this thread goes. Good news gets ignored.

So if anyone sorts out this shitfest you say that they haven't done a good job?

 

[martcov]

I said might be.

So last week you and Mart were going on about us running out of food and medicine. That the army would have to take over. That there would never be a trade deal. That we were going to be in the shite. That the EU wouldn't make a deal because they didn't need to.

Now Barnier says about a deal being made. And also changing the wording to do with us leaving.

So what has caused the massive change?

Whoever is the one who has made this change has done a good job. Agreed?

There will be a deal. The army and food etc were to make the deal look better when it arrives. We are not going to be better off than before and we won’t have any say on what our neighbours decide in the future and we will pay 40 bn for that.

Sounds great doesn’t it.

 

[Astute]

There will be a deal. The army and food etc were to make the deal look better when it arrives. We are not going to be better off than before and we won’t have any say on what our neighbours decide in the future and we will pay 40 bn for that.

Sounds great doesn’t it.

Will be a deal? Well done Mart. You have spent 2 years telling us that there won't be because the EU doesn't need us.

It was people like you saying about the army taking over and lack of food and medicine. What was said was things were put in place in case of no deal. So of course you were all over it.

Not better off than before?

So what more predictions are you going to get wrong next?

You know nothing but constantly predict catastrophe. I have been right so far yet you will still tell me that I am wrong when I predict anything.

That is the difference between us two. I say what I think might happen. I look at things when sitting on the fence. I look at what would be best for both sides. You tell us what will happen. And so far you have got nothing right. But you will continue to tell us what will happen.

 

[martcov]

Will be a deal? Well done Mart. You have spent 2 years telling us that there won't be because the EU doesn't need us.

It was people like you saying about the army taking over and lack of food and medicine. What was said was things were put in place in case of no deal. So of course you were all over it.

Not better off than before?

So what more predictions are you going to get wrong next?

You know nothing but constantly predict catastrophe. I have been right so far yet you will still tell me that I am wrong when I predict anything.

That is the difference between us two. I say what I think might happen. I look at things when sitting on the fence. I look at what would be best for both sides. You tell us what will happen. And so far you have got nothing right. But you will continue to tell us what will happen.

I didn’t mention the army apart from asking someone who wanted it on permanent standby .. why he wanted that?

I said we want our cake and eat it, and that we won’t get that.

I said they don’t need us as much as we think they do.

I said we will get BRNO and no one will be happy. Probably something like Norway.

We still have to find a solution for Northern Ireland which is the hardest part.

The rest you say I said. Which means you said that for me, which is not the same as me saying it.

 

[Grendel]

There will be a deal. The army and food etc were to make the deal look better when it arrives. We are not going to be better off than before and we won’t have any say on what our neighbours decide in the future and we will pay 40 bn for that.

Sounds great doesn’t it.

40 billion over 50 years including what we would have paid in the next two years anyway so yes it does.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

How is May doing a good job? She is the weakest PM I can remember in my lifetime, is dictated to by backbenchers and infamous for doing U-turns.

Hmm, I wouldn't say 'good job', but I do actually feel a little sorry for her. She seems to have done most of the negotiating (as her Brexit secretary was fly-by-night and never bothered preparing stuff) and whatever she comes back with, she'll upset somebody in her party. This wouldn't matter if she had a 100+ majority.

Cameron took the easy route out and ran, leaving someone else to pick up the pieces. I suppose you could say she was stupid to even go for the gig, but better her than Leadsom, Johnson or Gove!

 

[Sick Boy]

Lavish praise?

So you are still pushing the truth to the limit I see.

So what bad did Barnier say yesterday? Because if he had said anything bad it would have been plastered on here over many pages by now. That is the way this thread goes. Good news gets ignored.

So if anyone sorts out this shitfest you say that they haven't done a good job?

Have a look yourself, it's been in the press.

 

[Astute]

Have a look yourself, it's been in the press.

What has been in the press? You are mentioning it so it can only be bad. But if it was bad you would put it up on here.

 

[Sick Boy]

What has been in the press? You are mentioning it so it can only be bad. But if it was bad you would put it up on here.

If I put every single bad post about Brexit that's in the press the thread would be over 1000 pages now.

 

[Astute]

I didn’t mention the army apart from asking someone who wanted it on permanent standby .. why he wanted that?

I said we want our cake and eat it, and that we won’t get that.

I said they don’t need us as much as we think they do.

I said we will get BRNO and no one will be happy. Probably something like Norway.

We still have to find a solution for Northern Ireland which is the hardest part.

The rest you say I said. Which means you said that for me, which is not the same as me saying it.

More like you said we wouldn't get a deal. We would crash and burn. The EU doesn't need us.

The army is always on standby.

Don't need us as much as we think they do? Explain. Because you are making it up.

Ireland will be much easier with a trade deal and security deal. Barnier said he wants both.

 

[Astute]

If I put every single bad post about Brexit that's in the press the thread would be over 1000 pages now.

So how am I supposed to find it?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

If I put every single bad post about Brexit that's in the press the thread would be over 1000 pages now.

Now there's a thought!

1,000 pages by Christmas?

 

[martcov]

More like you said we wouldn't get a deal. We would crash and burn. The EU doesn't need us.

The army is always on standby.

Don't need us as much as we think they do? Explain. Because you are making it up.

Ireland will be much easier with a trade deal and security deal. Barnier said he wants both.

When is this deal being signed?

 

[Astute]

When is this deal being signed?

Are you calling Barnier a liar?

 

[martcov]

Are you calling Barnier a liar?

No.

He has said all along that we can have a deal e.g. Norway, Canada ++.

He said he must have a workable proposal. He has rebuffed part of the Chequers White Paper, but not all of it.

We have stuck to no deal as an option. It still is.

We will take a hit short term whatever happens. That is not crash and die.

 

[Astute]

No.

He has said all along that we can have a deal e.g. Norway, Canada ++.

He said he must have a workable proposal. He has rebuffed part of the Chequers White Paper, but not all of it.

We have stuck to no deal as an option. It still is.

We will take a hit short term whatever happens. That is not crash and die.

Was up early with my grandson this morning. Nothing on TV. Watched the news. Then when it started repeating watched BBC parliament. It was from the EU.

The place was nearly empty. But those who were there agreed on most of what was said. And most of it was about Brexit. We have a lot of support. Nearly all of them want to keep close ties with us after leaving. They want a good trade deal. Barnier got grilled. He hasn't just suddenly changed his mind or method for no reason. People of the EU are worried about what will happen if trade with us is made difficult.

The other main subject was immigration from outside the EU. Saying how too much was being made of it and how countries like Italy should have more help instead of being left to cope alone.

Then came a bit of comedy gold. Farage spoke. He congratulated Juncker on how he dealt with the million plus who came into the EU. He congratulated him on how he got them moved all over the EU especially Germany. The person next to Juncker kept patting him on the back for a job well done. 'And I congratulate Juncker for the catastrophe he has caused by blocking immigration from leaving the countries where they have landed although the numbers are well down and all the problems it has caused'

And many agreed with him. Because several had already had a pop at him.

They are not happy with either Juncker or Barnier. This is why they have backed down from what they preached. The people of the EU want and need a deal. They are getting worried that the leave date is getting closer. The EU isn't in union about us not getting a deal like you have constantly said.

 

[Sick Boy]

Was up early with my grandson this morning. Nothing on TV. Watched the news. Then when it started repeating watched BBC parliament. It was from the EU.

The place was nearly empty. But those who were there agreed on most of what was said. And most of it was about Brexit. We have a lot of support. Nearly all of them want to keep close ties with us after leaving. They want a good trade deal. Barnier got grilled. He hasn't just suddenly changed his mind or method for no reason. People of the EU are worried about what will happen if trade with us is made difficult.

The other main subject was immigration from outside the EU. Saying how too much was being made of it and how countries like Italy should have more help instead of being left to cope alone.

Then came a bit of comedy gold. Farage spoke. He congratulated Juncker on how he dealt with the million plus who came into the EU. He congratulated him on how he got them moved all over the EU especially Germany. The person next to Juncker kept patting him on the back for a job well done. 'And I congratulate Juncker for the catastrophe he has caused by blocking immigration from leaving the countries where they have landed although the numbers are well down and all the problems it has caused'

And many agreed with him. Because several had already had a pop at him.

They are not happy with either Juncker or Barnier. This is why they have backed down from what they preached. The people of the EU want and need a deal. They are getting worried that the leave date is getting closer. The EU isn't in union about us not getting a deal like you have constantly said.

Good to see that you would accept those crossing the Med to Italy into Britain.

Can you provide links to try session? Also some evidence from media in the EU that there is panic?

 

[martcov]

Was up early with my grandson this morning. Nothing on TV. Watched the news. Then when it started repeating watched BBC parliament. It was from the EU.

The place was nearly empty. But those who were there agreed on most of what was said. And most of it was about Brexit. We have a lot of support. Nearly all of them want to keep close ties with us after leaving. They want a good trade deal. Barnier got grilled. He hasn't just suddenly changed his mind or method for no reason. People of the EU are worried about what will happen if trade with us is made difficult.

The other main subject was immigration from outside the EU. Saying how too much was being made of it and how countries like Italy should have more help instead of being left to cope alone.

Then came a bit of comedy gold. Farage spoke. He congratulated Juncker on how he dealt with the million plus who came into the EU. He congratulated him on how he got them moved all over the EU especially Germany. The person next to Juncker kept patting him on the back for a job well done. 'And I congratulate Juncker for the catastrophe he has caused by blocking immigration from leaving the countries where they have landed although the numbers are well down and all the problems it has caused'

And many agreed with him. Because several had already had a pop at him.

They are not happy with either Juncker or Barnier. This is why they have backed down from what they preached. The people of the EU want and need a deal. They are getting worried that the leave date is getting closer. The EU isn't in union about us not getting a deal like you have constantly said.

I have never ever said we are not getting a deal. You made that up again. I have constantly said that Davis had 2 years to put something forward. He couldn’t. May has, and now the EU has something to discuss. They have said we can have a deal of some sort from the beginning. Without a proposal Barnier couldn’t do anything.

He has a brief from 27 countries. What individual MEPs say, is not necessarily the view of their country‘s government. Otherwise you could quote Farage as speaking for the British government.

Liam Fox says the chance of a no deal is 60:40 no deal. He is not as optimistic as yourself.

 

[Astute]

Good to see that you would accept those crossing the Med to Italy into Britain.

Can you provide links to try session? Also some evidence from media in the EU that there is panic?

Was on BBC Parliament as I said.

Try watching it. Did I say panic? Of course I didn't. But you can see that they are worried.

So why else do you think that Barnier is saying the opposite to just a couple of weeks ago?

 

[Sick Boy]

Was on BBC Parliament as I said.

Try watching it. Did I say panic? Of course I didn't. But you can see that they are worried.

So why else do you think that Barnier is saying the opposite to just a couple of weeks ago?

How's he saying the opposite? Of course both sides want a deal, but whether one is achieved or not is another matter. You're going to be in for a shock if you think the EU is just going to give a deal at any cost.

 

[Astute]

I have never ever said we are not getting a deal. You made that up again. I have constantly said that Davis had 2 years to put something forward. He couldn’t. May has, and now the EU has something to discuss. They have said we can have a deal of some sort from the beginning. Without a proposal Barnier couldn’t do anything.

He has a brief from 27 countries. What individual MEPs say, is not necessarily the view of their country‘s government. Otherwise you could quote Farage as speaking for the British government.

Liam Fox says the chance of a no deal is 60:40 no deal. He is not as optimistic as yourself.

So you have never mentioned no deal or that Barnier won't give us what we want?

OK Mart. We believe you.

Individual MEP's?

Not all of them are nothing back at home. But you would like them to be for the purpose of this thread.

Is Sebastien Kurz a nobody to you? Even you can't say he isn't. He is fully on the side of there being a good deal between us. He praised Barnier for his efforts but then told him it must move forward for the benefit of everyone in the EU. And they can't ignore Kurz.

 

[Grendel]

How's he saying the opposite? Of course both sides want a deal, but whether one is achieved or not is another matter. You're going to be in for a shock if you think the EU is just going to give a deal at any cost.

The general indications are that’s exactly what they will do in the short term to avoid a crash out with no deal

 

[Astute]

How's he saying the opposite? Of course both sides want a deal, but whether one is achieved or not is another matter. You're going to be in for a shock if you think the EU is just going to give a deal at any cost.

Here you go twisting what I have said at any time. Are you upset that it looks like there will be a decent deal?

So where have I even made the slightest comment about the EU giving us the better part of any deal? What I have constantly said is people of the EU need us like we need them. And much harm will come to people of the EU if there is no deal. Barnier has been left in no doubt on how their feelings are.

But it seems you and Mart will try and disagree because all you want is for us to stay in the EU and won't consider anything else.

 

[Grendel]

When you look at stock market valuations most pension funds have the view British based companies and the pound are already valued at hard Brexit levels - many funds and articles suggest its the best time to now buy.

On the other hand the same funds are stating that the European market so tread with caution.

A crash out will damage many European countries and also the euro. The poorer states relying on painfully low bank rates will not cope with subsequent inflation rises and interstate rate rises and any crash in the euro will kill Greece overnight.

So of course there is panic on the Eu side

 

[Sick Boy]

Here you go twisting what I have said at any time. Are you upset that it looks like there will be a decent deal?

So where have I even made the slightest comment about the EU giving us the better part of any deal? What I have constantly said is people of the EU need us like we need them. And much harm will come to people of the EU if there is no deal. Barnier has been left in no doubt on how their feelings are.

But it seems you and Mart will try and disagree because all you want is for us to stay in the EU and won't consider anything else.

Where is there any indication of a decent long-term deal? Both sides would suffer but in the long-term, IMO, the UK should suffer worse.

 

[Grendel]

Where is there any indication of a decent long-term deal? Both sides would suffer but in the long-term, IMO, the UK should suffer worse.

Why would uk businesses suffer worse than Europe? How would Europe cope with devaluation of the euro against the dollar in your view?

 

[Astute]

Where is there any indication of a decent long-term deal? Both sides would suffer but in the long-term, IMO, the UK should suffer worse.

Should suffer the worse?

Why should we? So you can congratulate the leave voters on what they have caused?

Barnier and Juncker always made out that they had a mandate to follow. This was a plan to jeep us in the EU. They even said they wouldn't hold anything against us if we stayed in the EU. But the plan hasn't worked so far. Some of us said all the time that it was hard ball tactics.

Barnier has now admitted that a hard Brexit would harm the EU. He says he doesn't want it to happen. He doesn't want to destabilise the EU. He has said that he can only offer a trade deal and joint security but we can also have talks.

So what does that tell you?

Not having a trade deal with us will harm us. But it would also harm the EU. True?

He can't hide now when he says he is following what other members want. They are telling him that they want a deal. And they are saying it publicly. A trade deal would benefit both sides. And depending on how much money we still donate to the EU cause is who will be better off. Or do you say they should go against members views and bite their nose off to spite their face?

 

[Sick Boy]

Apologies meant WOULD!!
Off to the beach, will reply later!

 

[Astute]

Apologies meant WOULD!!
Off to the beach, will reply later!

On way to Bute with grandson. Just about to board ferry. Look forward to reply.