Nick
Administrator
Which extended break?
The system we have played (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Nick
- Start date
Which extended break?
fatso
Well-Known Member
I meant shortened break, sorry, my bad.
fatso
Well-Known Member
Maybe, but do you honestly believe we have the fire power at present to trouble teams in this league?
CCFC_Charlie
Well-Known Member
I think promotion and a few excellent games towards the end of last season have really clouded people's memories of just how we played and set up, the start of this season is a continuation of that not an anomaly. It worked out last season mainly because we had a player who could score goals out of nothing and was better than anything our challengers had, in addition to Shipley and Bayliss being effective enough out of position to win us games against poor opposition. It wasn't until the final few games of the season that we actually clicked and were playing some good stuff, before that we were really labouring to wins with a few good performances scattered around and there was zero consistency. I've not seen much since Robins came back to suggest that he has any sort of deep tactical knowledge or has built his sides with any sort of system in mind. He strikes me as very much a manager who'll tinker until he finds something that works and then when that stops working he'll tinker again, relying on having as many good players on the pitch as possible in the hope that it'll balance the scales in our favour. It's not necessarily a bad thing and if the players are good enough will win us games, but it also means we're going to be very inconsistent and a good manager will figure out how to beat us most of the time.
This is team I'd play, although it's not ideal it probably fits our players the most. The main concern is the wing backs being too exposed, you'd need Ogogo and Kelly/Doyle to cover them.
This is team I'd play, although it's not ideal it probably fits our players the most. The main concern is the wing backs being too exposed, you'd need Ogogo and Kelly/Doyle to cover them.
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Nonleagueherewecome
Well-Known Member
Nah he's switched, most of last season was McNulty and one of Biamou or JCH up front, certainly once Jones and Andreu were injured. And whilst Shipley was slightly "out of position" it worked well having him reasonably narrow from the left.
I think Robins did show some flexibility last season in switching to the "weird" 442, and in releasing Kelly to be more advanced at time of the two DM's, but historically he does prefer the 4231 and I think Andreu was bought initially for that reason.
I think Robins did show some flexibility last season in switching to the "weird" 442, and in releasing Kelly to be more advanced at time of the two DM's, but historically he does prefer the 4231 and I think Andreu was bought initially for that reason.
itsabuzzard
Well-Known Member
Formation looks good to me. We haven't exactly set the heather on fire so far, so why not give it a whirl?I think promotion and a few excellent games towards the end of last season have really clouded people's memories of just how we played and set up, the start of this season is a continuation of that not an anomaly. It worked out last season mainly because we had a player who could score goals out of nothing and was better than anything our challengers had, in addition to Shipley and Bayliss being effective enough out of position to win us games against poor opposition. It wasn't until the final few games of the season that we actually clicked and were playing some good stuff, before that we were really labouring to wins with a few good performances scattered around and there was zero consistency. I've not seen much since Robins came back to suggest that he has any sort of deep tactical knowledge or has built his sides with any sort of system in mind. He strikes me as very much a manager who'll tinker until he finds something that works and then when that stops working he'll tinker again, relying on having as many good players on the pitch as possible in the hope that it'll balance the scales in our favour. It's not necessarily a bad thing and if the players are good enough will win us games, but it also means we're going to be very inconsistent and a good manager will figure out how to beat us most of the time.
This is team I'd play, although it's not ideal it probably fits our players the most. The main concern is the wing backs being too exposed, you'd need Ogogo and Kelly/Doyle to cover them.
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Nonleagueherewecome
Well-Known Member
This is team I'd play, although it's not ideal it probably fits our players the most. The main concern is the wing backs being too exposed, you'd need Ogogo and Kelly/Doyle to cover them.
Like the look of the formation.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Honestly? Yes. I think Hiwula would get 15 or so if played through the middle, Jones, Andreu, Biamou and maybe Bayliss 5-10 each. That's enough for a playoff side.
But it'd need a change in how we set up. We won't do it with one isolated striker.
JulianDarbyFTW
Well-Known Member
I listened to the interview with Viveash, and he said that Robins isn't as comfortable with 4231 as he is. Maybe the performances so far reflect that. Give it a few games, then if there's no improvement, change it up. We can't give up so easily, or things will never change.
Nick
Administrator
Sounds a bit worrying if they aren't really sure on a formation, if he is comfortable with it then he should surely be helping make tweaks and adjustments?
Esoterica
Well-Known Member
Kind of get the feeling that pre-season went something like this:
AV: So what we gonna do? We did well to get promoted but it was only the last few games where we really played well. Doyle's going to be 37 this year so what about switching to a 4-3-3?
MR: I really like having 2 DMs.
AV: But you can't play 2 strikers in a 4-4-2 that contains 2 DMs, we barely created a chance for 6 months last season.
MR: I want 2 DMs and it's my ball.
AV: (scratches head) Hmmm. What about a 3-5-2?
MR: Does it have 2 DMs?
AV: Sure!
(Couple of friendly defeats later...)
MR: I don't like this 3-5-2, you need world class defenders to make it work, not sure we're gonna pull this off in L1.
AV: What about that 4-3-3 then?
MR: Does it have 2 DMs?
AV: (sighs) ok, ok, what about 4-2-3-1, that has 2 DMs!
MR: (pauses): RECRUITMENT TEAM ASSEMBLE!!
(silence interspersed with regular mouse clicking)
MR: (Looks annoyed and walks over to Recruitment)
Chris Badlan: (minimises Candy Crush lvl 117 and looks up sheepishly) Yes Boss?
MR: I need lots of forwards or attacking midfielers who can play anywhere across a front 4.
CB: But we've recruited for 3-5-2 all summer and there's only 2 weeks of the transfer window left!
MR: (Places a briefcase on the desk and clicks it open to reveal half a million in cash) Look, here's half the McNulty money, get it done.
CB: (maximises Candy Crush) I'm on it Boss!
(Almost 2 weeks later)
MR: Chris! How's that hunt for a striker going?
CB: (minimises Candy Crush lvl 539 and looks up sheepishly) Yeah, I'm on it boss! Should be something announced tomorrow, so wear that same polo shirt you always wear for the handshake - you might need to iron it yourself though now Beavon's gone.
MR: (nods and wanders off looking pleased)
CB: (Looking nervous and muttering to himself) Shit, shit, shit.
(Next day)
rob9872
Well-Known Member
GK - Burge or O'Brien both ok imo
LB - Brown long term, but Mason done nothing wrong so far and deserves to keep the shirt
RB - Grimmer
CB - happy with any 2 from Davies, Hyam, Willis
CM - Ogogo
CM - Bayliss
RM - Jones
LM - Allassani
No10 Andreu
CF - Bakayoko
Formation 4-2-3-1 - obviously some fitness issues to overcome for that and perhaps a little harsh on Doyle, Kelly, Biamou and Sterling but I like the balance.
LB - Brown long term, but Mason done nothing wrong so far and deserves to keep the shirt
RB - Grimmer
CB - happy with any 2 from Davies, Hyam, Willis
CM - Ogogo
CM - Bayliss
RM - Jones
LM - Allassani
No10 Andreu
CF - Bakayoko
Formation 4-2-3-1 - obviously some fitness issues to overcome for that and perhaps a little harsh on Doyle, Kelly, Biamou and Sterling but I like the balance.
Wasn't at the first home game but on Saturday it was glaringly obvious we had no natural width in that line up.
Bayliss and Hiwula were constantly coming inside meaning no support for Mason and in particular Sterling when they ventured forward, the left side was slightly better than the right.
This also meant the centre of the park became too crowded on a small pitch and made Andreu easy to stop.
I think this system can work when we have Jones and Allassani up and running, but Bayliss in particular looked tactially lost on Saturday.
Bayliss and Hiwula were constantly coming inside meaning no support for Mason and in particular Sterling when they ventured forward, the left side was slightly better than the right.
This also meant the centre of the park became too crowded on a small pitch and made Andreu easy to stop.
I think this system can work when we have Jones and Allassani up and running, but Bayliss in particular looked tactially lost on Saturday.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
One of the things Vivash said in that podcast was it took the players longer to understand. With Chelsea players were better at following the role they're given and that gives more freedom of system, bit lower down players take longer to understand their role.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Which tbh is why I'd keep it simpler lower down the pyramid.
It's very early days and we don't see how the players can perform on a daily basis so you have to trust the manager and coaching staff to see what they can do. Personally I think CCFC were relying a bit on getting this Chaplin fella and then went out and panicked a bit and brought in forwards with sparse goal scoring records. One thing for sure is we can't let our strikers be too isolated, they have to play closer together or the ball will just keep coming back......and you don't score goals and win games in your own half. I still think we need a proper striker but with what we could have soon if Jones gets fit, I'd go with a midfield of:
Jones Andreu Ogogo Bayliss with Biamou and Hiwula playing closer together up front.
Jones Andreu Ogogo Bayliss with Biamou and Hiwula playing closer together up front.
Johhny Blue
Well-Known Member
Blah blah blah
Pete in Portugal
Well-Known Member
I don't think we were "totally unprepared" for the season. I'd agree, (and I'm sure, so would Robins), that our preparations have been less than ideal. Some players have returned in a poor physical condition and Robins has said he's pissed off with them. With so many new players, (and two returning from long injuries), I think it's completely unrealistic to expect Robins to know his best starting eleven, or even formation, from the outset of the season. Hopefully we will see a gradual improvement over the next few weeks, though inevitably there's bound to be the occasional set-back.
First question who’s boss tactically Robins or Viveash ?
Went to both games thought we played alright v Scunny but allowed ourselves to get mugged v Wimbledon did well to get a point, the Dons look a decent team to me and knew how to play a tight pitch.
Difficult yet to say what our best team is to be fair but I think we all know how our best players are, Bayliss, Andrue, Brown, Ogogo, Davies, I like Hyam but would be okay with Willis. For me the first rule with a football team is play your best players and in their best positions and build found them. Ogogo is better than Doyle, Bayliss is best through the middle not wide, Andrue is a number 10 just behind the front two and I mean two who can develop a partnership not sure who of the four yet. I know we had McNulty banging the goals in last season but there was a partnership with imo the underrated Biamou. I would go with this eleven for now.
Burge/O’Brien
Grimmer Davies Hyam Brown
Kelly. Ogogo Bayliss
Andrue
Hiwula. Biamou/Bakayoko
I think Bayliss will kick on with the experienced Junior Brown behind him, whose 20 minutes at Wimbledon was our shining light on the day. I like the look of Mason but he has a bit to learn yet, one for the future.
If it was upto me I’d be shopping for a big tough cookie for centre midfield.
Went to both games thought we played alright v Scunny but allowed ourselves to get mugged v Wimbledon did well to get a point, the Dons look a decent team to me and knew how to play a tight pitch.
Difficult yet to say what our best team is to be fair but I think we all know how our best players are, Bayliss, Andrue, Brown, Ogogo, Davies, I like Hyam but would be okay with Willis. For me the first rule with a football team is play your best players and in their best positions and build found them. Ogogo is better than Doyle, Bayliss is best through the middle not wide, Andrue is a number 10 just behind the front two and I mean two who can develop a partnership not sure who of the four yet. I know we had McNulty banging the goals in last season but there was a partnership with imo the underrated Biamou. I would go with this eleven for now.
Burge/O’Brien
Grimmer Davies Hyam Brown
Kelly. Ogogo Bayliss
Andrue
Hiwula. Biamou/Bakayoko
I think Bayliss will kick on with the experienced Junior Brown behind him, whose 20 minutes at Wimbledon was our shining light on the day. I like the look of Mason but he has a bit to learn yet, one for the future.
If it was upto me I’d be shopping for a big tough cookie for centre midfield.
Bertola
Well-Known Member
This surprises me, as Robins played 4-2-3-1 in his first spell here, and started with that formation last season.
Pete in Portugal
Well-Known Member
I think promotion and a few excellent games towards the end of last season have really clouded people's memories of just how we played and set up, the start of this season is a continuation of that not an anomaly. It worked out last season mainly because we had a player who could score goals out of nothing and was better than anything our challengers had, in addition to Shipley and Bayliss being effective enough out of position to win us games against poor opposition. It wasn't until the final few games of the season that we actually clicked and were playing some good stuff, before that we were really labouring to wins with a few good performances scattered around and there was zero consistency. I've not seen much since Robins came back to suggest that he has any sort of deep tactical knowledge or has built his sides with any sort of system in mind. He strikes me as very much a manager who'll tinker until he finds something that works and then when that stops working he'll tinker again, relying on having as many good players on the pitch as possible in the hope that it'll balance the scales in our favour. It's not necessarily a bad thing and if the players are good enough will win us games, but it also means we're going to be very inconsistent and a good manager will figure out how to beat us most of the time.
This is team I'd play, although it's not ideal it probably fits our players the most. The main concern is the wing backs being too exposed, you'd need Ogogo and Kelly/Doyle to cover them.
That'd be my team too, based on what I've seen / heard so far. At this stage of the season, we need to keep an open mind though.
Greggs
Well-Known Member
Andreu
Warwickhunt
Well-Known Member
Thats the problem Nick! "fuck Knows what Robins was thinking!" he should know what players to play where? Throwing an 18 year old fledgling into a position he does not know how to play smacks of some kind of sinister contractual decision to me!
covcity4life
Well-Known Member
time for allasani to play me thinks. need some trickery until jones is back
skybluebeduff
Well-Known Member
Nick
Administrator
It's more baffling than thinking the season is over.
Londonccfcfan
Well-Known Member
Isn't it blatantly obvious to all that to accommodate Andreu we have to play 3 at the back?
Yesterday seemed like an ideal time to try it.
Ideally if all fit
Burge
Willis Davies Hyam
Grimmer Brown
Ogogu Doyle/Kelly
Bayliss/Jones Andreu
Biamou
There's no doubt our 3 stand out players in squad are;
JONES...ANDREU And Bayliss...somehow he needs to get the best out of them and build the team around them.
Yesterday seemed like an ideal time to try it.
Ideally if all fit
Burge
Willis Davies Hyam
Grimmer Brown
Ogogu Doyle/Kelly
Bayliss/Jones Andreu
Biamou
There's no doubt our 3 stand out players in squad are;
JONES...ANDREU And Bayliss...somehow he needs to get the best out of them and build the team around them.
Nick
Administrator
Yesterday though he didn't even play anybody in the Andreu type role though. Would have been ideal to put Bayliss in there.
He is changing the whole system match by match it seems, it's not even as if he is doing it to prevent players from playing out of position.
Esoterica
Well-Known Member
I'd prefer to play 1 less DM than go to 3 at the back. 4-1-3-2 or a diamond 4-4-2. 2 strikers, Andreu is accomodated in the middle of the 3 or tip of the diamond, space for Jones when he's fit.
Winny the Bish
Well-Known Member
This is my big worry. Not that we're implementing a new formation and we're going to struggle for a while as we get used to it, but that there is no set formation and we're throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks.
It honestly looks like Robins is just waiting until Jodi is back so we can start playing 4-2-3-1 again but until then he has no idea.
Nick
Administrator
What he should be doing is getting all of the other players used to playing that system in the meantime. If it means one player is slightly out of position to play the Jones role it isn't half as bad as when multiple players are out of position not having a clue.
Greggs
Well-Known Member
Really? Has the defense showed you enough to feel that we can nick games 1-0?
Winny the Bish
Well-Known Member
But then we have another problem...5 strikers eyeing up that 1 position at the top of the formation. So Hiwula is out wide, Bakayoko needs to play so his transfer fee is justified, Biamou helped us get promoted, Ponticelli is a real prospect and JCH is no doubt on a decent wage. So Robins scrambles to keep them all happy.
Warwickhunt
Well-Known Member
Got it in one! Robbins scrambles to keep them all happy! he could end up with a poisonous snake in the dressing room that upsets the team