Square pegs in round holes (2 Viewers)

[shmmeee]

Been thinking about this most of the day.
Burge
Grimmer----Willis---Davies----Brown
Jones---Ogogo---Bayliss----Shipley
Andreu
Hiwula

Jones obviously not ready so give Allasani that role until fit. I suspect Robins hasnt included Allasani yet if his fitness isn't up to scratch yet from non league.
Kelly, JCH, Hyam, Bakayoko from the bench gives enough options to switch it up.

No Thomas?

 

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[Nonleagueherewecome]

Right. So players were once again played completely out of position. Wasn't Sterling, (the right back who refuses to get forward), played on the wing? And wasn't Hiwula again was deployed out on the left where it's clear he feels uncomfortable?

I think it's unfair to judge Bayliss on one game in that position when from reports the whole team played poorly - I don't need to watch the game to establish that. If I remember rightly the reports actually suggested he was the best out of a bad bunch. So to respond to that point just because I didn't watch the game Nick doesn't mean I can't read or lack in friends that attend games.

Despite that, and yes it was in a different league but when Bayliss was deployed in the centre alongside Doyle upon his breakthrough he flourished. What's the reason MR cannot do this again when we actually have the players to fit in this formation?

MR choosing formations that seem to make our players look appalling footballers is bad management no matter what spin you put on it. So rather than try and fit players into formations that in fact don't fit or rely on the 4-2-3-1 to suit Andreu, just stick with one formation that works and work on another as a plan B.

Great point and I think that I had almost forgotten myself: Bayliss was played in CM for the majority of his games last season and we were an effective side in those games. I think that it did also just about work when he moved right towards the end, but that was partly due to Grimmer overlapping well outside him and Kelly coming back and covering acres of ground (and being more advanced than at the start of the season). They're two players who we are sorely missing at present.

When Bayliss was employed centrally against Oxford, it was far too deep to play to his strengths, so if we are to see the best of him, he has to have some licence.

 

[SkyBlueCRJ]

Great point and I think that I had almost forgotten myself: Bayliss was played in CM for the majority of his games last season and we were an effective side in those games. I think that it did also just about work when he moved right towards the end, but that was partly due to Grimmer overlapping well outside him and Kelly coming back and covering acres of ground (and being more advanced than at the start of the season). They're two players who we are sorely missing at present.

When Bayliss was employed centrally against Oxford, it was far too deep to play to his strengths, so if we are to see the best of him, he has to have some licence.

In all fairness I think a fair few people have forgotten, which isn't surprising because he was soon shifted over to the right once we started racking up further injuries. Bayliss isn't bad on the right I just think we miss that pace as neither Grimmer or Bayliss are particularly quick, which was similar to that of Stokes and Shipley on the left. Hence why at times it seemed as if we struggled for ideas last season. But now we have pace and quality on both sides of the pitch, the 4-4-2 will work far better than it did last season - especially when Jones is fit.

Exactly. I didn't see the game admittedly but doesn't the formation deploy 2 DM's? If you're relying on Bayliss doing an sort of defensive work then goals will be inevitably conceded.

 

[sylus]

Playing players in there natural position and you should get the best out of them surely, obviously MR doesn't think so,forget about Andreu he should be cover for Bayliss and we should be building our team around him.

 

[Winny the Bish]

I'd consider moving Shipley into CM until Kelly gets back. We know he'll scrap and work hard, and would also give us a better passer in the middle.

 

[SkyBlueCRJ]

I'd consider moving Shipley into CM until Kelly gets back. We know he'll scrap and work hard, and would also give us a better passer in the middle.

Good point. Isn't CM Shipley's natural position anyway?

 

[fernandopartridge]

Good point. Isn't CM Shipley's natural position anyway?

He was very poor when he played there I think it was against Accrington. He's not fit enough anyway, was blowing against Blackpool.
The whole team aren't fit by the look of them, really disappointing.

 

[Nick]

He was very poor when he played there I think it was against Accrington. He's not fit enough anyway, was blowing against Blackpool.
The whole team aren't fit by the look of them, really disappointing.

Was wondering about that, there's the injury thing as well. We seem to pickup up a fair few

Must be tiring chasing shadows though, you could tell Thomas had a higher level of fitness when he was playing in about 3 positions the other night

 

[SkyBlueCRJ]

He was very poor when he played there I think it was against Accrington. He's not fit enough anyway, was blowing against Blackpool.
The whole team aren't fit by the look of them, really disappointing.

I remember when he first came into the picture, might've been at Barnet away and he wasn't great then when he played in the centre but in all fairness no one was but he may have improved. Certainly an option for a left sided CM. But then again you're right, his fitness is poor and his defensive display is suspect so he may not be best suited to start when we're already struggling.

 

[Limey]

No Thomas?

Thomas or Allasani to play in the Jones role until fit.

 

[Warwickhunt]

Still say that he should keep Thomas as an impact sub and bring him on after 60minutes on the right wing hugging the line. we are not stretching defences and most defend narrow. Blackpool stuck 2/3 players on him and drowned him out in the midfield MR had him playing

 

[Otis]

Still say that he should keep Thomas as an impact sub and bring him on after 60minutes on the right wing hugging the line. we are not stretching defences and most defend narrow. Blackpool stuck 2/3 players on him and drowned him out in the midfield MR had him playing

We can alternate between Thomas and Allassani perhaps until Jones is back.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Still say that he should keep Thomas as an impact sub and bring him on after 60minutes on the right wing hugging the line. we are not stretching defences and most defend narrow. Blackpool stuck 2/3 players on him and drowned him out in the midfield MR had him playing

But you could also argue playing him from the start would allow us to get into the game more because his pace will stop them putting us under pressure so much.

On the other hand, if they control the match for an hour they'll have pushed higher up, we bring Thomas on and he has space and the energy against tiring legs to make a difference. With that though you're relying on us defending well enough to still be level which is a dangerous game to play.

Either case is valid, but I think most of us would agree he has to feature at some point.

Going on the two appearances so far (which isn't a great deal) he performed better off the bench than starting, but that was also a home game whilst the other was away. At home I'd like to see him and Allassani either side causing problems with their pace. Away from home not so sure, although ironically I think it'd probably be a better bet against the better sides in the division as they'll give more space.

 

[Irish Sky Blue]

Not sure I agree. Bayliss has nothing to do with his headache. It's MR's obsession with Andreu and the formation he fits into that's causing the entire problem. The square pegs in round holes conundrum is as a result of MR trying to squeeze him in. Remove Andreu from the squad, play a 442, slot Bayliss into his natural position as CM and the problem goes away.

If Andreu scored a goal or registered an assist a game I'd understand revolving a team around him. But if it's affecting a the team as a whole then surely the most logical solution is remove that player from the equation. MR needs to understand the utilitarian approach of the greatest good for the greatest number. If you injure your leg and you get gangrene, do you keep the leg and risk your life or do you just cut it off and get better? If I'm completely honest from the first 4 games I'm not convinced by Andreu whatsoever. I understand he's been on the sidelines for nearly a year with his ACL injury and it's obvious he has talent but not to the extent where he should be made a priority in the starting XI.

Andreu wasn’t in the team on Tuesday night and we were awful. I hope Andreu will be more of the solution than the problem. Our best performance of the season so was was against Scunthorpe when both played well. In both home games we have played a passing game.Away from home the approach seems different.

 

[SkyBlueCRJ]

Andreu wasn’t in the team on Tuesday night and we were awful. I hope Andreu will be more of the solution than the problem. Our best performance of the season so was was against Scunthorpe when both played well. In both home games we have played a passing game.Away from home the approach seems different.

I think I've repeated myself about 5 times here. I've never mentioned Andreu on Tuesday, plus he's started every other game and he did come on towards the end and still did nothing? I'm looking at the bigger picture. The formation is the primary issue due to the fact that fitting players such as Andreu and Bayliss in is causing the squad as a whole to suffer. I've focused on Andreu because he can't really play in any other position, whereas Bayliss can. Yes he performed poorly in the centre against Oxford but judging from reports no one played well, and if anything he was the best out of a bad bunch so it's illogical to make him a scapegoat just from that one performance. My argument is, why are using a system that benefits players such as Andreu when it's not working? I'd understand if Andreu was registering a goal or an assist every other game but he's not and neither is Bayliss. So how is he the solution to the problem when he's been poor, bar one game?

There isn't an approach for away games. Blackpool proves that.