Match Thread Coventry City vs Rochdale Match Thread - Saturday 1st Sep (5 Viewers)

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

At the risk of labouring the point, (but it is a point that some don’t seem to get), we lost this game not through being out played, out fought or the manager being out thought. We did not lose because the tactics or the formation was wrong. We lost because the players missed chance, after chance after chance. Presumably it was the manager’s tactics and the way that he set the team up that allowed us to make those chances. Conversely, it could be argued that the Rochdale manager was a tactical buffoon as he set up his team in such a way as to allow them to be outplayed and to concede 6 or 7 presentable chances in the first half alone. In truth, I think it was just at that stage of the game, our players were playing much better than theirs.
Against Scunthorpe, we were on top, leading and had hit the woodwork three times before they scored. (As with yesterday we should have been out of sight before they got back into it. Yes, I know they hit the post twice themselves, but we were completely dominating the game). Errors from Bayliss, Sterling and O’Brien all contributed to their equaliser, their winner was what we are lacking at the moment, a great finish. Wrong tactics costing us or individual player errors?
At Gillingham, their manager was forced to change the team due to injury. One of the subs coming on, List, was the player who caused us problems and scored their goal. If their manager is so astute, why didn’t he play him from the start rather than having to bring him on as another player was hurt? In truth, we dominated that game from start to finish and as with the Scunthorpe and Rochdale games, didn’t win because of player error, (mainly missing chances but also failing to take the many chances our players had to stop their goal), nothing to do with tactics.
Finally, winning or losing games is not the only indicator of how a team is doing.If we had played in every game this season the way we did at Blackpool I think that there would be genuine cause for concern. However, that is not the case. In the games against Scunthorpe, Gillingham and Rochdale and in the first half against Plymouth the team has played well, created chances and you can see what the manager is trying to do. The big fault has been sticking the ball in the back of the net, something everyone can see. The manager obviously knows this and has waited to get the man he thinks can solve this problem. Not good enough for the tactical experts on here who boldly state that they want Robins out now or others, who through their sniping, negative comments are virtually saying the same thing.
It just goes to show that managers, whatever they do or achieve, are given no grace whatsoever by some. For them the manager has to keep on achieving now, this game, instantly or they should be shown the door. If a manager like Raneri can win the PL with a club like Leicester and still be given the boot the following season, I don’t suppose we should be surprised that a manager like Robins, who achieves promotion with a club like ours, considering the state it was in when he took over, should be the victim of abuse from a few on here. Perhaps the surprise should be that it took until the second league game at Wimbledon before the whinging started (look at that match thread).
The message these people are giving is; we want to win games now, instantly, right this minute, irrespective of circumstances (ignoring all of the evidence of what a manager is clearly trying to do and how well the team are playing). Anything else is failure and the manager needs to go. A managerial merry go round that got us to the low point we were at a year ago and which is a proven way to ensure failure, but that is the way that some on here want us to go. Unbelievable!

Can't disagree with this at all. An excellent post. As usual.

 

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[Grendel]

Can't disagree with this at all. An excellent post. As usual.

It’s delusional hogwash

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

Think some got carried away with the signings we made in the summer tbh particularly Brown and Ogogo. They were made out to be top L1 players but Shrewsbury last season reminds me of us under Mowbray where we were supplemented with loan players above this level. Before that Shrewsbury were fighting relegation and are again this season

 

[Rasputin]

You are wrong, Grendel. Even just looking at the very short highlights, Andreu's shot was almost on the penalty spot and then JCH had a header from just around the 6 yard box.

Not all long range efforts at all.

Sky's highlights show the best chances in a match for either team. Sky are neutral so presumedly the highlights are dominated by Rochdale chances?

 

[better days]

Maybe there's a reason that some of our players run out of steam in the second half of games
Perhaps a few aren't looking after themselves as well as they might?

 

[Irish Sky Blue]

We all know that Robins didn't say to the players "please miss the good chances" but it was just as concerning that we could have been a couple down in the first ten minutes of the first half and could have been 0-5 in the first 15 of the second. Rochdale were walking through our team at one stage.
I am not advocating a change other than hoping the players start taking chances and the players stop switching off.
I think that is reasonable and the manager deserves a chance to bed in the new players. As I have stated before I think that he tried to implement too many changes at once.
I am grateful that the Sunderland and Portsmouth games are at home in a month and I think that will allow us a target to aim for for. I hope we don't miss!!!

The point being made was that it wasn't a lack of tactical awareness that cost us but individual errors, ie the inability to put the ball in the net from presentable chances. You can add to that Andrue switching off at their short corner which lead to their goal. The goal scoring problem is one that Robins is obviously aware off which is why he held out so long to get Chaplin. If we continue to create and miss chances or make mistakes which cost us goals and things don't improve then perhaps that is the time to question the manager. Not 6 games into a new season after a promotion when he is still putting his team together and when over half of the performances have been decent.

 

[Irish Sky Blue]

It’s delusional hogwash

You make so many daft comments and easily disprovable statements (ie the highlights showing the quality of our chances) that it is almost as if you are saying things for effect. Couldn't be true could it?

 

[Grendel]

Sky's highlights show the best chances in a match for either team. Sky are neutral so presumedly the highlights are dominated by Rochdale chances?

Can we have our money or not?

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

From 12th downwards we’ve conceded the least (6)

The bad news is that we’ve scored the joint least (3)

As like last time in L1, I think it’s going to be goals what let us down as our defence has been pretty strong so far. Top of the league Peterborough have only conceded one less

 

[Grendel]

You make so many daft comments and easily disprovable statements (ie the highlights showing the quality of our chances) that it is almost as if you are saying things for effect. Couldn't be true could it?

I’ll just ask one question. Is it acceptable to have scored one goal from open play so far - yes or no? Then when you answer that I’ll take apart each of your statements but will start with one regarding Scunthorpe- did they hit the woodwork?

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

Now got to do the easy part and find the right midfield and attack combination what can deliever goals as our defence stands up to the best in the league

 

[junglej13]

Think some got carried away with the signings we made in the summer tbh particularly Brown and Ogogo. They were made out to be top L1 players but Shrewsbury last season reminds me of us under Mowbray where we were supplemented with loan players above this level. Before that Shrewsbury were fighting relegation and are again this season

Both have come back from bad injuries. Realistically even when a player gets back on thr pitch after an ACL injury it is almost 12 months before they are back at their best. I fear unfortunately that will be the case with Jodi Jones.

 

[robbiekeane]

At the risk of labouring the point, (but it is a point that some don’t seem to get), we lost this game not through being out played, out fought or the manager being out thought. We did not lose because the tactics or the formation was wrong. We lost because the players missed chance, after chance after chance. Presumably it was the manager’s tactics and the way that he set the team up that allowed us to make those chances. Conversely, it could be argued that the Rochdale manager was a tactical buffoon as he set up his team in such a way as to allow them to be outplayed and to concede 6 or 7 presentable chances in the first half alone. In truth, I think it was just at that stage of the game, our players were playing much better than theirs.
Against Scunthorpe, we were on top, leading and had hit the woodwork three times before they scored. (As with yesterday we should have been out of sight before they got back into it. Yes, I know they hit the post twice themselves, but we were completely dominating the game). Errors from Bayliss, Sterling and O’Brien all contributed to their equaliser, their winner was what we are lacking at the moment, a great finish. Wrong tactics costing us or individual player errors?
At Gillingham, their manager was forced to change the team due to injury. One of the subs coming on, List, was the player who caused us problems and scored their goal. If their manager is so astute, why didn’t he play him from the start rather than having to bring him on as another player was hurt? In truth, we dominated that game from start to finish and as with the Scunthorpe and Rochdale games, didn’t win because of player error, (mainly missing chances but also failing to take the many chances our players had to stop their goal), nothing to do with tactics.
Finally, winning or losing games is not the only indicator of how a team is doing.If we had played in every game this season the way we did at Blackpool I think that there would be genuine cause for concern. However, that is not the case. In the games against Scunthorpe, Gillingham and Rochdale and in the first half against Plymouth the team has played well, created chances and you can see what the manager is trying to do. The big fault has been sticking the ball in the back of the net, something everyone can see. The manager obviously knows this and has waited to get the man he thinks can solve this problem. Not good enough for the tactical experts on here who boldly state that they want Robins out now or others, who through their sniping, negative comments are virtually saying the same thing.
It just goes to show that managers, whatever they do or achieve, are given no grace whatsoever by some. For them the manager has to keep on achieving now, this game, instantly or they should be shown the door. If a manager like Raneri can win the PL with a club like Leicester and still be given the boot the following season, I don’t suppose we should be surprised that a manager like Robins, who achieves promotion with a club like ours, considering the state it was in when he took over, should be the victim of abuse from a few on here. Perhaps the surprise should be that it took until the second league game at Wimbledon before the whinging started (look at that match thread).
The message these people are giving is; we want to win games now, instantly, right this minute, irrespective of circumstances (ignoring all of the evidence of what a manager is clearly trying to do and how well the team are playing). Anything else is failure and the manager needs to go. A managerial merry go round that got us to the low point we were at a year ago and which is a proven way to ensure failure, but that is the way that some on here want us to go. Unbelievable!

When is volume two coming out

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

Can we have our money or not?

Is Dongo back?

 

[east_midlands_skyblue]

It’s delusional hogwash

I've read this forum for a long time and often been tempted to respond to some of your more ridiculous posts, but try to avoid internet based conflict as a general rule. I believed that most of the time you were trying to wind people up, successfully, but I'm now genuinely not so sure. You are either making things up in the hope that the other 9500 people at the game are not on here, or have lost your grip on reality. We had loads of presentable chances, as numerous people have pointed out can be seen on the highlights. This isn't a matter of opinion, it's objective fact. I do worry about your state of mind.

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

Just reading Robins post match interview from yesterday. He loves the word streetwise even last season, every time we lose it’s down to a side being more streetwise. One of them annoying manager cliches like “showed them too much respect” or “every games a tough game at this level”

 

[Grendel]

Just reading Robins post match interview from yesterday. He loves the word streetwise even last season, every time we lose it’s down to a side being more streetwise. One of them annoying manager cliches like “showed them too much respect” or “every games a tough game at this level”

Careful - someone will be questioning your state of mind

 

[Grendel]

I've read this forum for a long time and often been tempted to respond to some of your more ridiculous posts, but try to avoid internet based conflict as a general rule. I believed that most of the time you were trying to wind people up, successfully, but I'm now genuinely not so sure. You are either making things up in the hope that the other 9500 people at the game are not on here, or have lost your grip on reality. We had loads of presentable chances, as numerous people have pointed out can be seen on the highlights. This isn't a matter of opinion, it's objective fact. I do worry about your state of mind.

Loads of people at the game around me were screaming for Robins to “sort it out IR fuck off” it’s objective fact he’s signed these players who cannot convert these “presentable chances”

 

[Irish Sky Blue]

I’ll just ask one question. Is it acceptable to have scored one goal from open play so far - yes or no? Then when you answer that I’ll take apart each of your statements but will start with one regarding Scunthorpe- did they hit the woodwork?

I already mentioned in the post above that Scunthorpe hit the woodwork twice. With regard to your question, it isn’t as simple as yes or no because the circumstances have to be taken into account. If it was one goal from open play and all the performances were like the one at Blackpool then the answer would be no. As it is, I think most of the performances have been good with lots of chances created. Add to that that we lost a 28 goal forward in the summer and that Robins has only just been able to replace him and it becomes clearer why we have had the problems we have had in hitting the net. If after the next 6 games our goals for column is still looking poor then no that won’t be acceptable unless there are other unforeseen circumstances such as injuries to key players.

 

[DannyThomas_1981]

Can't disagree with this at all. An excellent post. As usual.

I agree. Irish Sky Blue is one of the few posters I enjoy reading after a defeat. Balanced and avoids hysteria.

 

[Irish Sky Blue]

When is volume two coming out

Probably the next time we lose or don’t score a goal and the same daft ideas for changing the manager are rolled out.

 

[DannyThomas_1981]

Loads of people at the game around me were screaming for Robins to “sort it out IR fuck off” it’s objective fact he’s signed these players who cannot convert these “presentable chances”

'Sort it out or fuck off.'

Ironically how I feel about most of your misguided rantings Grendel.

 

[Otis]

I agree. Irish Sky Blue is one of the few posters I enjoy reading after a defeat. Balanced and avoids hysteria.

Hysteria's what we do best though.

People are panicking, but we should have got something out of the Scunthorpe game, should have beaten Gillingham and had more than enough chances to win yesterday too.

We could easily have 7 more points than we have, so I am not panicked at all just yet.

Would be worried about all the missed opportunities, but that's hopefully something that Chaplin will rectify and that's what we've brought him in for. Shame we couldn't nab him from the off and had to wait a number of weeks to gain his signature.

 

[Grendel]

Hysteria's what we do best though.

People are panicking, but we should have got something out of the Scunthorpe game, should have beaten Gillingham and had more than enough chances to win yesterday too.

We could easily have 7 more points than we have, so I am not panicked at all just yet.

Would be worried about all the missed opportunities, but that's hopefully something that Chaplin will rectify and that's what we've brought him in for. Shame we couldn't nab him from the off and had to wait a number of weeks to gain his signature.

Should have, could have, didn’t

 

[Gazolba]

Now got to do the easy part and find the right midfield and attack combination what can deliever goals as our defence stands up to the best in the league

Defense, midfield and attack all work together. You can't strengthen one without affecting the other.
So I would disagree with you that only the 'easy part' is left.
What is needed is a comprehensive system involving all the players where everyone knows their role and players are played in their strongest positions.
We seem to be a long way from that at the moment.

 

[Grendel]

Probably the next time we lose or don’t score a goal and the same daft ideas for changing the manager are rolled out.

How many times have we been relegated in the last 50 years?

 

[Otis]

Should have, could have, didn’t

Small margins and that's football all over.

We could have had 7 points more. We haven't.

Had we done so we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Small margins.

 

[Irish Sky Blue]

How many times have we been relegated in the last 50 years?

The answer is three but I am not sure of the relevance of the question? That is also three relegations in the past 16 years when we have had,I think, 16 permenant managers. In the 34 years before that with no relegations we had by my calculation 13. Not sure what the figures prove except that in a period of three relegations we have averaged a Manager a year. In a period of relative stability we averaged a manager every three or four years. Figures seem to back up the notion that sacking the manager regularly doesn’t help.
When did we last have a manager with Robins win percentage. (60% in his second stint at the club 50% in his first spell. I don’t know if those figures include this season). Next in line are Jimmy Hill, Eric Black and Roland Neilson all on about 44% unless you want to go back to Harry Buckle’s 75% in 1919.
The link for this site is below. Not sure why it isn’t working.

www.managerstats.co.uk/clubs/coventry-city/

I have just looked at this site again and it has him on 28 games in his second spell at the club so the second half of last season missing (which would be fairly positive stats for him and the start of this season which obviously wouldn’t).

 

[Irish Sky Blue]

If you go back to our last relegation before 2002, 1958, only one more manager would be added to the list, Billy Frith. We therefore had 14 managers in a period of 44 years when we had three promotions, an FA Cup win, a run in the UEFA cup, two League Cup semi finals and 34 years unbroken in the top flight with players of the Calibre of Tommy Hutchison. That works out a manager every 4 to 5 years. Even more proof that it is better to give managers time.

 

[Grendel]

The answer is three but I am not sure of the relevance of the question? That is also three relegations in the past 16 years when we have had,I think, 16 permenant managers. In the 34 years before that with no relegations we had by my calculation 13. Not sure what the figures prove except that in a period of three relegations we have averaged a Manager a year. In a period of relative stability we averaged a manager every three or four years. Figures seem to back up the notion that sacking the manager regularly doesn’t help.
When did we last have a manager with Robins win percentage. (60% in his second stint at the club 50% in his first spell. I don’t know if those figures include this season). Next in line are Jimmy Hill, Eric Black and Roland Neilson all on about 44% unless you want to go back to Harry Buckle’s 75% in 1919.
The link for this site is below. Not sure why it isn’t working.

www.managerstats.co.uk/clubs/coventry-city/

I have just looked at this site again and it has him on 28 games in his second spell at the club so the second half of last season missing (which would be fairly positive stats for him and the start of this season which obviously wouldn’t).

The point is simple. We were relegated two of those three times as we remained loyal to managers who should have been fired

In the 80’s we fired managers prior to Sillett far more than that and survived. The average Ccfc manager lasts 80 games in a job

 

[Grendel]

If you go back to our last relegation before 2002, 1958, only one more manager would be added to the list, Billy Frith. We therefore had 14 managers in a period of 44 years when we had three promotions, an FA Cup win, a run in the UEFA cup, two League Cup semi finals and 34 years unbroken in the top flight with players of the Calibre of Tommy Hutchison. That works out a manager every 4 to 5 years. Even more proof that it is better to give managers time.

Rubbish - take Gordon Milne out then show me the stats

 

[BackRoomRummermill]

The point being made was that it wasn't a lack of tactical awareness that cost us but individual errors, ie the inability to put the ball in the net from presentable chances. You can add to that Andrue switching off at their short corner which lead to their goal. The goal scoring problem is one that Robins is obviously aware off which is why he held out so long to get Chaplin. If we continue to create and miss chances or make mistakes which cost us goals and things don't improve then perhaps that is the time to question the manager. Not 6 games into a new season after a promotion when he is still putting his team together and when over half of the performances have been decent.

It’s not the number of games now it’s the way ithe team are being taken apart , yes 6 games but when we get to 10 and if we have less than 10 points which is very possible and given the funds he has had then it’s time to go MR , out of your depth and thank you for getting us back to where you joined us . If you want progression then a new face capable of pushing on the team and using the resources wisely is the best option

At this rate he will be gone by mid September and to be honest if he can’t do it then that’s the best for all concerned

 

[Grendel]

It’s not the number of games now it’s the way ithe team are being taken apart , yes 6 games but when we get to 10 and if we have less than 10 points which is very possible and given the funds he has had then it’s time to go MR , out of your depth and thank you for getting us back to where you joined us . If you want progression then a new face capable of pushing on the team and using the resources wisely is the best option

At this rate he will be gone by mid September and to be honest if he can’t do it then that’s the best for all concerned

Correct.

Football managers generally are not long term. There is no sentiment or loyalty either way but if at the end of September there is no improvement it’s very unlikely there will be any at all

 

[BackRoomRummermill]

Correct.

Football managers generally are not long term. There is no sentiment or loyalty either way but if at the end of September there is no improvement it’s very unlikely there will be any at all

He has to go if there is no improvement . We will be left a hill to climb to survive relegation with a team half full of Biamou ability cash raiding useless talent .

Any new manager a big ask. No doubt the MR lovin team will appear talking about stability . The solution is to get someone who knows what they are doing .

 

[lifeskyblue]

We were the better side for most of the first half and created enough chances to have had the game won. But after h/t it was more even; Rochdale changed their formation, looked far more threatening and restricted our forward play. They adapted and we didn’t. We still had a couple of decent chances but spurned them and they had should have scored at least one more.
My concern is that the midfield didn’t perform second half and allowed Rochdale to get a grip of the game. Up front I worry that Chaplin won’t get the support/service he needs.


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