The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (105 Viewers)

[Astute]

How does the old saying go. Fail to prepare, prepare to fail. Something like that ‘Stating the obvious!’ Brexit no deal papers blasted for offering ‘few solutions’

1, I thought we wasn't supposed to link to that rag as the remainers whatever the cost constantly said.

2, No deal? Are those in the EU lying when they say there will be a deal?

3, It would be against the EU rules for there not to be a deal.

4, Do you really think they will cut their nose off to spite their face?

 

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[SkyblueBazza]

EU breaks it's own rules again

'Embarrassing' leak shows EU falls short of own GDPR data law

They don't even appear to be embarrassed. Of course...their steps might well be to change the rules so it is easier to comply

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[Astute]

They don't even appear to be embarrassed. Of course...their steps might well be to change the rules so it is easier to comply

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It just shows their utter contempt. They do what they want when they want. Rules? They make all but Germany follow them then don't follow them themselves.

Yet to some it is just an annoyance.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

And here you go again mentioning people that don't do things the right way being a good enough reason for the EU to not have to do things the right way.

Nearly everyone agrees on how bad Trump is. Are you comparing the EU to Trump?

I think he is trying to say that the EU should follow the example of those he has quoted...but not go quite so far. That will make it acceptable in some way...to him at least

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[SkyblueBazza]

Britain loses medicines contracts as EU body anticipates Brexit

But meanwhile...the UK can demand thst certain trials are carried out under UK stipulations...otherwise they don't get licenced for use here. Now thst I would agree could be a double-edged sword! By that I mean EMA sympathies toward certain EU companies will become a thing of the past. However we (as patients) will still suffer from either missing out on good drugs for longer than necessary or, we suffer from sympathies shown to UK based Pharma firms.

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[Astute]

But meanwhile...the UK can demand thst certain trials are carried out under UK stipulations...otherwise they don't get licenced for use here. Now thst I would agree could be a double-edged sword! By that I mean EMA sympathies toward certain EU companies will become a thing of the past. However we (as patients) will still suffer from either missing out on good drugs for longer than necessary or, we suffer from sympathies shown to UK based Pharma firms.

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Ford are going on about shutting plants in Europe if there is no deal. But they only make engines in the UK. Trannies are now made in Turkey. The rest of the cars are built in Germany and Spain. So there would be massive job losses in the EU.

But I haven't seen the normal possible job losses mentioned by those who always mention the possible job losses blamed on Brexit. Can't work it out myself.....

 

[skybluetony176]

Ford are going on about shutting plants in Europe if there is no deal. But they only make engines in the UK. Trannies are now made in Turkey. The rest of the cars are built in Germany and Spain. So there would be massive job losses in the EU.

But I haven't seen the normal possible job losses mentioned by those who always mention the possible job losses blamed on Brexit. Can't work it out myself.....

Is that what they’ve said? In the article I read they said that a huge proportion of the losses they made in 2017 was because of the drop of the pound and they’ve done a U turn on what they’ve previously said about Brexit and being positive about a frictionless trade and know expect anything but and will do what they need to do to protect their European business. Including pulling production out of the U.K.

 

[Sick Boy]

Ford's Brexit warning as profits slide by £760m: Car giant may scale back in the UK | This is Money

 

[Astute]

Is that what they’ve said? In the article I read they said that a huge proportion of the losses they made in 2017 was because of the drop of the pound and they’ve done a U turn on what they’ve previously said about Brexit and being positive about a frictionless trade and know expect anything but and will do what they need to do to protect their European business. Including pulling production out of the U.K.

Which part is what they are saying?

Diesel engines are finished in the EU. Only engines are made in the UK. But it looks like car making is finished as we know it. They look to be entering the SUV market and pulling out of the rest. We are their most profitable market. The rest has gone downhill. Now the EU makes out that there will be tariffs so they are calling time earlier than planned. About 24,000 job losses. Not sure about the Tranny factory in Turkey though.

So how did you miss it when you notice much smaller job losses?

 

[Astute]

Ford's Brexit warning as profits slide by £760m: Car giant may scale back in the UK | This is Money

How about something with more information?

Is Ford slowly leaving Europe? - newmobility.news

Autoweek.com

I don't want to make this into an essay. Short and sweet as possible. Trump is giving massive tax breaks to companies in the U.S. It can be used for cost savings. But he isn't happy if it means job losses in the USA. So they don't get the tax breaks if they do so. So they are looking at the rest of the world. Europe is going to take a big hit. And handily Brexit will publicly take the blame when it can just like it did with Jaguar when the truth was all to do with them keeping to diesel engines.

So how will Brexit get the blame when the factories in Germany and Spain start closing? Ford has pulled out of the Geneva car show. Why is that?

Ford may slash 12% of jobs in revamp of Europe ops

 

[skybluetony176]

Which part is what they are saying?

Diesel engines are finished in the EU. Only engines are made in the UK. But it looks like car making is finished as we know it. They look to be entering the SUV market and pulling out of the rest. We are their most profitable market. The rest has gone downhill. Now the EU makes out that there will be tariffs so they are calling time earlier than planned. About 24,000 job losses. Not sure about the Tranny factory in Turkey though.

So how did you miss it when you notice much smaller job losses?

So where has Ford said that they’re cutting jobs in Europe (other than the U.K.) because of Brexit?

I can see where they say they’re looking at cutting jobs because they’re considering dropping the Mondeo (story just broke in the last 24 hours) due to changing tastes. Can’t se them blaming brexit on that.

 

[Sick Boy]

How about something with more information?

Is Ford slowly leaving Europe? - newmobility.news

Autoweek.com

I don't want to make this into an essay. Short and sweet as possible. Trump is giving massive tax breaks to companies in the U.S. It can be used for cost savings. But he isn't happy if it means job losses in the USA. So they don't get the tax breaks if they do so. So they are looking at the rest of the world. Europe is going to take a big hit. And handily Brexit will publicly take the blame when it can just like it did with Jaguar when the truth was all to do with them keeping to diesel engines.

So how will Brexit get the blame when the factories in Germany and Spain start closing? Ford has pulled out of the Geneva car show. Why is that?

Ford may slash 12% of jobs in revamp of Europe ops

The article I posted is 4 months more recent and has Ford blaming Brexit.

There seems to be quite a few companies coming out and saying it's negative, unless you genuinely believe it's a massive conspiracy?

 

[Sick Boy]

So where has Ford said that they’re cutting jobs in Europe (other than the U.K.) because of Brexit?

I can see where they say they’re looking at cutting jobs because they’re considering dropping the Mondeo (story just broke in the last 24 hours) due to changing tastes. Can’t se them blaming brexit on that.

In his own article it says due to issues such as diesel

 

[Astute]

So where has Ford said that they’re cutting jobs in Europe (other than the U.K.) because of Brexit?

I can see where they say they’re looking at cutting jobs because they’re considering dropping the Mondeo (story just broke in the last 24 hours) due to changing tastes. Can’t se them blaming brexit on that.

You are joking?

Brexit always gets blamed. Will take a look.

Edit

Didn't take long to find

Ford has given this stark warning about Brexit

Ford blames Brexit as it warns of job losses and rising car prices | Daily Mail Online

Ford blames Brexit for $86m third-quarter loss in Europe

 

[Astute]

The article I posted is 4 months more recent and has Ford blaming Brexit.

There seems to be quite a few companies coming out and saying it's negative, unless you genuinely believe it's a massive conspiracy?

Of course it is negative. Only a fool would disagree.

The problem is that many have their blinkers on. They only want to see the harm it could cause the UK and say it won't harm the EU as much as it is much bigger.

But most manufacturers pulled out of the UK looking for cheaper labour. The UK is Ford's most profitable place. But they don't build any vehicles here. They have been trying to sell their gearbox factory in Brussels even though it is profitable. They have been reducing their engine building in the UK. This was before Brexit. Yet Brexit gets the blame. How unusual.

So if Brexit is causing Ford to pull out who will hurt the most? Let's shout out it is the UK.

The whole thing is a joke.

 

[Astute]

In his own article it says due to issues such as diesel

Is that Jaguar or Ford?

 

[skybluetony176]

You are joking?

Brexit always gets blamed. Will take a look.

Edit

Didn't take long to find

Ford has given this stark warning about Brexit

Ford blames Brexit as it warns of job losses and rising car prices | Daily Mail Online

Ford blames Brexit for $86m third-quarter loss in Europe

I’ll try again. Where has Ford said that they’re considering cutting jobs in Europe (other than the U.K.) because of Brexit. It doesn’t say it in the articles that didn’t take you long to find. They’re just the same story in different outlets that SB linked, which you did your best to discredit. Any job losses in Europe (other than the U.K.) are going to be down to models being dropped and joint ventures with European car manufacturers. Nothing to do with Brexit and aside from U.K. loses they haven’t even mentioned brexit in European job losses.

 

[skybluetony176]

The UK is Ford's most profitable place.

Based on what? In the article linked already it states that the U.K. is responsible for over half it’s European losses. Where are you getting the U.K. being “Fords most profitable place” from? All their most recent comments suggest the opposite.

 

[skybluetony176]

They have been reducing their engine building in the UK.

Wasn’t Ford planning on expanding Bridgend? Until brexit happened of course.

Ford to invest £181m in Bridgend plant to build new fuel efficient engines

 

[skybluetony176]

Brexit 'may create united Ireland majority'

Can’t say I’m surprised. Been pointing out for a while that even amongst my own Protestant family being able to travel to work everyday in the south and then bringing their wages home unaffected is more important to them than the north remaining part of the U.K. Then you have the younger generation looking at the forward thinking governance in the south compared to the antiquated, global warming denying, flat earth society that run the north and it almost seems inevitable.

 

[Astute]

I’ll try again. Where has Ford said that they’re considering cutting jobs in Europe (other than the U.K.) because of Brexit. It doesn’t say it in the articles that didn’t take you long to find. They’re just the same story in different outlets that SB linked, which you did your best to discredit. Any job losses in Europe (other than the U.K.) are going to be down to models being dropped and joint ventures with European car manufacturers. Nothing to do with Brexit and aside from U.K. loses they haven’t even mentioned brexit in European job losses.

Ford 'to ditch Mondeo range and scrap thousands of jobs'

So work this one out for me.

They are cutting jobs in the UK because of Brexit. But they are cutting even more jobs in the rest of the EU and it has nothing to do with Brexit. But they state that the uncertainty of moving parts between the EU and UK.

So they haven't tried to blame it on Brexit?

Ford considers closing factories and raising prices in Europe in wake of Brexit

 

[Astute]

Wasn’t Ford planning on expanding Bridgend? Until brexit happened of course.

Ford to invest £181m in Bridgend plant to build new fuel efficient engines

If they are not going to be building cars they won't need the engines. So is not needing the engines on the cars they build in Germany and Spain to do with Brexit or not? You say the engine section is Brexit and the car building not Brexit.

Certainly looks like a contradiction to me.

 

[Sick Boy]

Is that Jaguar or Ford?

In general

 

[skybluetony176]

If they are not going to be building cars they won't need the engines. So is not needing the engines on the cars they build in Germany and Spain to do with Brexit or not? You say the engine section is Brexit and the car building not Brexit.

Certainly looks like a contradiction to me.

Bridgend makes Ford, JLR and Volvo engines. You say Ford are going to stop making cars. That’s not what they’ve said. They’ve said that they’ll drop certain models and possibly enter a joint venture (VW being mooted) in Europe, they’ll still be making cars with Ford engines in, just might not be in a Ford factory. Ford also has engine plants in Germany and Romania. Why would they or Volvo pay 10% on engines made in Bridgend used on production in the EU when they can simply just move engine production to existing plants in the EU? Only JLR engines would stay in the U.K. (for now) and that deal ends in 2020.

Where’s the brexit incentive for Ford to carry on manufacturing for the EU car plants (Ford, joint venture or Volvo) post brexit? Especially true post a hard brexit.

 

[martcov]

1 We are not a part of the USA.

2 You tried to say that the EU does not break its own rules and regulations. So I showed you a few. So you did your usual and tried to change the subject.

No I didn’t. I said it happens in all large organisations.

 

[martcov]

I think he is trying to say that the EU should follow the example of those he has quoted...but not go quite so far. That will make it acceptable in some way...to him at least

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Well, as usual, you are wrong.

 

[martcov]

It just shows their utter contempt. They do what they want when they want. Rules? They make all but Germany follow them then don't follow them themselves.

Yet to some it is just an annoyance.

If they are taking steps to correct things, then they are not showing contempt.

 

[Astute]

Bridgend makes Ford, JLR and Volvo engines. You say Ford are going to stop making cars. That’s not what they’ve said. They’ve said that they’ll drop certain models and possibly enter a joint venture (VW being mooted) in Europe, they’ll still be making cars with Ford engines in, just might not be in a Ford factory. Ford also has engine plants in Germany and Romania. Why would they or Volvo pay 10% on engines made in Bridgend used on production in the EU when they can simply just move engine production to existing plants in the EU? Only JLR engines would stay in the U.K. (for now) and that deal ends in 2020.

Where’s the brexit incentive for Ford to carry on manufacturing for the EU car plants (Ford, joint venture or Volvo) post brexit? Especially true post a hard brexit.

Ford will make cars but not in a Ford factory?

Can't you see another contradiction here? If not in a Ford factory they are not making them.

Ford have been pulling out of the UK for years. I suppose you will dispute this now. Or try to blame it on Brexit.

 

[Astute]

If they are taking steps to correct things, then they are not showing contempt.

Go on then. Make us laugh.

What steps have they taken?

 

[martcov]

1, I thought we wasn't supposed to link to that rag as the remainers whatever the cost constantly said.

2, No deal? Are those in the EU lying when they say there will be a deal?

3, It would be against the EU rules for there not to be a deal.

4, Do you really think they will cut their nose off to spite their face?

1. you use it.

2. no. They have always said there will be a deal. „No deal is better than a bad deal“ is our government‘s stance.

3. Maybe. But if the UK cannot find a workable solution to the NI problem there will have to be no deal.

4. No. that’s our job.

 

[martcov]

Go on then. Make us laugh.

What steps have they taken?

Don’t know. You confirmed that they are. They have to anyway.

 

[martcov]

Ford will make cars but not in a Ford factory?

Can't you see another contradiction here? If not in a Ford factory they are not making them.

Ford have been pulling out of the UK for years. I suppose you will dispute this now. Or try to blame it on Brexit.

Farage blamed it on the EU. And so does my brother.

 

[martcov]

He is also assuming anybody (other than himself & SickBoy & parhaps 1% of the UK population) gives a shit what Charlie says

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how many give a shit was Selmayr says?

 

[Astute]

1. you use it.

2. no. They have always said there will be a deal. „No deal is better than a bad deal“ is our government‘s stance.

3. Maybe. But if the UK cannot find a workable solution to the NI problem there will have to be no deal.

4. No. that’s our job.

How about back to reality?

1, Each time I used it you moaned. Said it was full of pro Brexit crap. So I stopped quoting it yet you and others continued to when it suited. And still do.

2, If the EU has always said there would be a deal why do you always make out how bad it will be for the UK when there isn't a deal?

3, If there is the trade deal that everyone is supposed to want there won't be a problem.

4, Dream on.

 

[Astute]

Don’t know. You confirmed that they are. They have to anyway.

I have confirmed how they constantly break their own rules and regulations. It is you that has said that they are doing something about it yet can't name anything. How unusual.