Sisu - My message to you (16 Viewers)

[Captain Dart]

The sad thing is there will be people dying for the good run to come to an end to be able to take advantage of it.

Absolute nonsense. I've even been giving some praise to SISU for managing the club well in the last 2 years.

However I still don't think SISU are suitable owners for a sports club with deep local roots. I agree with OSB their primary objectives are not the same as those of a successful local professional football club.

 

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[Nick]

I'm not arguing that.

I'm arguing the comment that "people are dying for the good run to come to an end".

As he said, wait and see.

You will see posters appear who haven't been bothered for months, you will see people going to the press to make statements, you will see people trying to organise protests to capitalise on the negative feelings.

As soon as our good run runs out people will be trying to use it. Hopefully it won't though!

 

[Covstu]

Our owners have always been dreadful and Vichai was the exception rather than the rule. The key is a good manager, investing in youth and a bit of luck. We're doing ok in spite of them and not because of them, but since we can't change them our energy is better served in forgetting about them, support the team and they'll go when they're ready. They wont be here forever and if they wont listen to all of the protests and off field stuff that's gone on over the past few years then they certainly wont drop the court issues out of a sense of doing the right thing. Ruthless business people and there will be an end to this saga at some point - ride the wave!

I think if you look at those 3 objectives...
1) Decent Manager - don't think anyone will disagree we have probably got one of the best in the league (for the money we probably pay him)
2) Investing in Youth - great track record over the last 10+ years and a great youth conveyor belt. The academy has been secured for now equally
3) Luck - If you believe in this type of thing but you generally make your own luck and we are scoring last minute goals and clearing them off the line at present so I will take that...

I would probably add a few more:
4) The ground and long term future is probably another objective which they have failed miserably on.
5) Engage with the fans - that ship sailed along time ago!

 

[oldskyblue58]

The problem is Wasps don't have to justify it - there is no alternative, we know it and CCFC in Boddy's statement have said it. Wasps know it

Currently the rent has been set according to Wasps at a non commercial rate. I think that is also the general perception. They will want a commercial rent in future i believe, what that is i have no idea but i dont believe it will be lower. I tend to think it will be substantially higher. The trouble is that because of the dispute CCFC is now in a position of weakness and can be held to ransom.

The commercial value of the rent will have a range of values depending on which valuer you use, you would expect Wasps to want the highest value and CCFC the lowest. Wasps being in control of the only suitable site in the City are in the box seat for setting the rent. That is not me justifying a rent increase or not favouring CCFC, it is a statement of fact. But in this case there is no alternative site and a rent could be anything that Wasps care to set (i find it hard to believe it wont be a lot higher)

This is also not an extension of an existing deal so the terms offered will be new. The current agreement ceases to exist next August (or is it end of season - May). Therefore what we currently pay or use doesnt actually come in to it.

Not using the site to an increased amount or not doesn't come in to it. CCFC will be offered a day rent rate and that is a short term arrangement, which tend to be more expensive.

The next problem is that once accepted that indicates a starting point for any future lease arrangements. Anything added to those arrangements will cost in addition to what we get now

Now factor in Wasps need for cash flow and it isnt hard to work out that any deal is not going to favour CCFC

Yes it will be CCFC paying the higher rate not SISU and all that entails for CCFC cash flow

The alternative is that CCFC go somewhere else or cease to play. The latter option would not be acceptable to any of us but it wouldnt be acceptable to SISU either.

Both sides trying to play hard ball with CCFC kicked and punched in the middle

Bottom line is they(wasps) dont have to justify anything, it will be take it or leave it

 

[fernandopartridge]

Still waiting to find out why a rent increase is justified? Our usage of the stadium wont increase. So using the 250k figure someone has mentioned, what's the justification for a 150% increase? Sisu are taking the council to court not wasps. They also claim legal expenses from sisu when they lose. I can totally understand match day costs going up with inflation etc. I could understand a small increase in rent but 150%?! Sisu and everyone else screw the club over where possible so why our fans are championing a rent increase is beyond me. Sisu won't pay the extra, ccfc will.

It's simple supply and demand tbf. I don't like it but accept it's the reality of our position.

 

[Nick]

Yep, Wasps could turn round and say they want a million (doubt that) but my issue is more with the fans who would get all excited because they think it is "really showing SISU".

 

[WhaleOilBeefHooked]

Hopefully it won't though!

Something we can finally agree on!

 

[fellatio_Martinez]

100% they do read this and other forums.
Even know who some of us are.

Whether they care is another matter.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

Looking back - wouldn’t a rent increase suit SISU? Didn’t Ann Lucas say there were measures in place to make sure the football club and Rugby club don’t suffer? Or have I made thT up?

 

[SkyBlueZack]

No, you haven't made it up. The council did!

 

[oldskyblue58]

I dont know if this helps or not

A few years ago CCFC used to hire the pitch to supporters to play on. From memory use of the pitch & changing rooms for 2 hours was £5000 plus VAT.

Bolton Pitch hire 2018 Last chance to sign up for Wanderers' pitch hire 2018!
MK Dons Stadium MK Pitch Hire 2018 - Be a Don for the day
Various How much does YOUR team charge to hire their pitch? (in 2016)


Obviously match day CCFC would use the bars and function rooms. as a for instance below are the room hire charges for Scunthorpe

ROOM ............. PEOPLE HELD........... FULL DAY ........HALF DAY
Executive Lounge .....120 ............. £425 .......... £275
Boardroom ......... 30 ........... £325 ........ £200
Legends Lounge ....... 30 ......... £375 ......... £225
Executive Boxes ....... 10 .......... £100 ......... £100
Iron Bar .......... 100 ........ £325 ......... £200

Given we look to use the facilities for at least 6 hours, then it is not hard to envisage a "commercial" rent of over £350k. Not a great prospect !

Thats without matchday costs. Just an aside but the 2017 & 2016 accounts show the Stewards as being employed by CCFC/Otium not the stadium/wasps

 

[Nick]

Wouldn't hiring bars and function rooms be a matchday cost rather than rent though?

 

[Ashdown]

So yes I can see, a yearly increase to £1/4 million minimum. Not ideal but what choice have we got ?!

 

[oldskyblue58]

Looking back - wouldn’t a rent increase suit SISU? Didn’t Ann Lucas say there were measures in place to make sure the football club and Rugby club don’t suffer? Or have I made thT up?

perhaps why Wasps are saying a "commercial rent" so CCFC are paying the going rent. If they are paying the going rate are they being disadvantaged compared to others? would be the argument they would use.

CRFC, through their own hard work & effort are steadily rising and creating a better home at BPA. Again same argument would be used have they been disadvantaged?

In any case i dont think anything that Lucas said was actually legally binding on Wasps. Just political double speak i think

No i am not saying i agree with the situation or supporting Wasps - irks me that i have to make that clear to some on here - i want what is best for CCFC and always have

 

[oldskyblue58]

Wouldn't hiring bars and function rooms be a matchday cost rather than rent though?

the figures are for room rent so no NIck. The cost of staffing, utilities etc would

 

[Captain Dart]

In any case i dont think anything that Lucas said was actually legally binding on Wasps. Just political double speak i think

Yup, Eastwood repeated the assurances at a SBT meeting but I can't remember exactly what he said.
But unless it is in a contract assurances are worthless & unenforceable if circumstances change.

 

[Nick]

the figures are for room rent so no NIck. The cost of staffing, utilities etc would

So there is rental of the room, staff and utilities for function rooms where they (Compass or whoever it is now) get the profits majority of from it?

That's a decent gig if you can get it.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

perhaps why Wasps are saying a "commercial rent" so CCFC are paying the going rent. If they are paying the going rate are they being disadvantaged compared to others? would be the argument they would use.

CRFC, through their own hard work & effort are steadily rising and creating a better home at BPA. Again same argument would be used have they been disadvantaged?

In any case i dont think anything that Lucas said was actually legally binding on Wasps. Just political double speak i think

No i am not saying i agree with the situation or supporting Wasps - irks me that i have to make that clear to some on here - i want what is best for CCFC and always have

No not at all. I’m just thinking what measures there are or does that give grounds for SISU believing in JR3 - or the civil suits?

Depends if refusing point blank to talk to us breaks this

 

[fatso]

Does anyone know how long sisu have left if they are to appeal to the Supreme Court regarding the JR?

 

[Nick]

Does anyone know how long sisu have left if they are to appeal to the Supreme Court regarding the JR?

Probably the same as on the other thread?

It's as if somebody mentioned Wasps in a half arsed remark and the SWAT team jumped on it. :emoji_smiley:

 

[Captain Dart]

Does anyone know how long sisu have left if they are to appeal to the Supreme Court regarding the JR?

4 weeks from the time they were last told no appeal from appeals court, so by my reckoning 2 weeks tomorrow.
Ricoh Arena: Court of Appeal rejects Coventry City owners' judicial review bid

 

[Covstu]

Yup, Eastwood repeated the assurances at a SBT meeting but I can't remember exactly what he said.
But unless it is in a contract assurances are worthless & unenforceable if circumstances change.

Surely all bets are off and all goodwill lost given the court action?

 

[Grendel]

Very well put, unfortunately a number of people on here don’t wish to accept the facts as they stand, and would rather accuse others of giving wasps a free ride, or of being wasp apologists. But unfortunately, while sisu own the club, both ccfc and sisu are viewed as being the same entity by the council, ACL, Higgs trust and wasps. Until sisu sell the club, this ongoing mistrust will continue.
The ever looming end to the current tenancy agreement may hopefully result in an end to the ongoing legal saga, and pave the way for a long term arrangement to stay at the Ricoh, but if it dosnt, then I could only assume that sisu care a lot less about ccfc than they do about chasing their lost investment.

The main accusation from people like you regarding sisu getting their filthy hands on the Ricoh was that they would mortgage a community asset and tie it up with loans to fund equity

Wasps do the same and suddenly it’s an acceptable business practice

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

The main accusation from people like you regarding sisu getting their filthy hands on the Ricoh was that they would mortgage a community asset and tie it up with loans to fund equity

Wasps do the same and suddenly it’s an acceptable business practice

Wasps took advantage . Sisu screwed it up and we are where we are. Terrible position

 

[Magwitch]

I think a short term deal will happen similar to now maybe a bit more money but not that much, however there is another angle in its rules the EFL ask for a 10 year plan on where you play now none of us know what had been said by our owners to the EFL if anything regarding this but we have had 2/3 year plans, from Fisher going to build a stadium, we have a couple of sites etc,etc, now I don’t expect the EFL would pull the plug if we get another short term deal but I can’t see this going on and on, something substantial needs to happen re where we play

 

[Magwitch]

The main accusation from people like you regarding sisu getting their filthy hands on the Ricoh was that they would mortgage a community asset and tie it up with loans to fund equity

Wasps do the same and suddenly it’s an acceptable business practice

Wasps own it mate and can do what they like, don’t like it but that’s a fact.

 

[Nick]

Wasps own it mate and can do what they like, don’t like it but that’s a fact.

Think you have missed the point.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Wasps own it mate and can do what they like, don’t like it but that’s a fact.

What a load of apologist shite. The case would be the same with SISU then

 

[fernandopartridge]

Wasps took advantage . Sisu screwed it up and we are where we are. Terrible position

Your mates on the council made the sole decision to sell to Wasps. Nobody forced them to do it.

 

[fatso]

Your mates on the council made the sole decision to sell to Wasps. Nobody forced them to do it.

Yes they did, sisu forced them to do it.
It’s simply a case of economics, what was the council supposed to do with an empty stadium?
Once sisu had dragged ccfc out of Coventry, and made public their intention to build a new stadium of their own, the council was lumbered with an empty facility which was draining their resorces, What did you expect them to say when a buyer came along?

 

[Nick]

Yes they did, sisu forced them to do it.
It’s simply a case of economics, what was the council supposed to do with an empty stadium?
Once sisu had dragged ccfc out of Coventry, and made public their intention to build a new stadium of their own, the council was lumbered with an empty facility which was draining their resorces, What did you expect them to say when a buyer came along?

Nobody forced them to do it.

The council leader thought the stadium was "washing it's face" and didn't need CCFC.

If they needed to sell, whack it out on the open market to get the best deal.

 

[WhaleOilBeefHooked]

Nobody forced them to do it.

The council leader thought the stadium was "washing it's face" and didn't need CCFC.

If they needed to sell, whack it out on the open market to get the best deal.

I'm presuming that you, and all those who are venting at the Council, will be changing their votes in the next election? You can only moan so much on here and go around in constant circles.

Blame Wasps - boycott them. There's not much more you can do.
Blame SISU - boycott them. There's not much more you can do.
Blame CCC - change your vote.

 

[Nick]

I'm presuming that you, and all those who are venting at the Council, will be changing their votes in the next election? You can only moan so much on here and go around in constant circles.

Blame Wasps - boycott them. There's not much more you can do.
Blame SISU - boycott them. There's not much more you can do.
Blame CCC - change your vote.

How do you boycott SISU exactly? How many of our fans need "investment" services?

I've never voted for any of the bellends, I might just start picking comedy votes for the sake of it.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Yes they did, sisu forced them to do it.
It’s simply a case of economics, what was the council supposed to do with an empty stadium?
Once sisu had dragged ccfc out of Coventry, and made public their intention to build a new stadium of their own, the council was lumbered with an empty facility which was draining their resorces, What did you expect them to say when a buyer came along?

The club was back at the stadium fatty and had made noises about longer term details. The council lied in public about the prospects of a longer term deal whilst negotiating with Wasps in the background.
My personal view is that Wasps were the context to the failed negotiations in 2012/13.

Makes me laugh how Fisher's statements are or aren't credible to fit whatever argument you've got.

 

[Nick]

The club was back at the stadium fatty and had made noises about longer term details. The council lied in public about the prospects of a longer term deal whilst negotiating with Wasps in the background.
My personal view is that Wasps were the context to the failed negotiations in 2012/13.

Makes me laugh how Fisher's statements are or aren't credible to fit whatever argument you've got.

It would stack up as they were lurking about then in 2012. They were tapping up Rossborough too as well then.