Sisu - My message to you (17 Viewers)

[WhaleOilBeefHooked]

How do you boycott SISU exactly? How many of our fans need "investment" services?

I've never voted for any of the bellends, I might just start picking comedy votes for the sake of it.

By not going to games... But I'm not opening that can of worms.

Whilst it may not be you, I'm genuinely sick of people complaining about the Council at every available opportunity and then, come election time, they still vote for their old favourite. It's the only way to make these pigs with their snouts in the trough wake up.

 

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[Nick]

By not going to games... But I'm not opening that can of worms.

Whilst it may not be you, I'm genuinely sick of people complaining about the Council at every available opportunity and then, come election time, they still vote for their old favourite. It's the only way to make these pigs with their snouts in the trough wake up.

That's not boycotting SISU...

Do you think the people slating people like Lucas are then going and voting for them? I'd rather vote for a dog that rides a skateboard.

 

[WhaleOilBeefHooked]

Do you think the people slating people like Lucas are then going and voting for them?

Yes - and I even know people that have and will. Because "wE always vOtE lAboUr".

I'd rather vote for a dog that rides a skateboard.

That might actually put a smile on peoples faces rather than looking at the sour-faced trollop, Lucas.

 

[GlastoSkyBlue]

Going back to the original point of the thread; IMO SISU only view CCFC as another one of their assets, there is no emotional tie to the club, desire to see the club succeed or the fans be happy, we are just another avenue to potentially getting some sort of financial reward - although I haven't got a clue how this strategy works other than through litigation. As a fan it makes it easy to divorce the club from SISU because ultimately they don't care about football at all and the football is all I care about with CCFC - this talk is something that, quite frankly gets on my tits and distracts from what I enjoy.

However, standing back, only being an asset to SISU is what potentially hurts us in the long run, because if we are only asset of theirs and they operate to devalue other organisations assets in order to make a gain, then the most likely outcome is that those organisations will respond by devaluing SISU's asset i.e. CCFC. SISU don't really care how their actions might affect the long term future of the club or what affect that will have within the community, they are driven by a single aim, which is to fulfil their strategic needs. This is reflected in the decision to cease rental payments and then move away from the Ricoh to devalue ACL where all the risk was stacked on the football club. Personally when I first read the Wasps stuff I just thought that the council had called SISU's bluff and would ultimately sell to SISU, but it seems that egos at the council needed massaging and they plumped with the option of really trying to hurt SISU by selling to Wasps, but all the council did was damage the long term future of the city's community assets by making it near impossible for CCFC to ever own the Ricoh. Now we see SISU trying to devalue Wasps asset, and surprise surprise, Wasps are now threatening to kick us out... Ultimately I don't think they will kick us out however everything they are doing now in refusing to talk is aimed causing CCFC pain and I worry that SISU are not really bothered about the pain that may be caused and which will be felt by us.

However, you can't blame SISU for everything, this ultimately all began by the council refusing to discuss the terms of playing at the Ricoh and then putting CCFC into administration. As for Wasps, they've stepped into the middle of a damaging game between the council and SISU and appear to now be another organisation who are currently putting pressure on the football club, although it may be retaliation against SISU I still don't like to see it happen because it is us that are affected. Some people perceive it as sticking one to SISU but as I've said above, I don't think it bothers them in the slightest and possibly just adds more fuel to their fire. I've not got a clue what the answer is, you can't take the council out of the equation, taking Wasps out of the equation opens up various long term possibilities but we are left with the initial problem of the Council and SISU being at each other and SISU don't seem to have any desire to go.

Therefore, having got this off my chest I've decided to look forward to continuing watching what I enjoy, and seeing city hopefully continue their good form against Accrington.

 

[GlastoSkyBlue]

Oh, and my view on NOPM and boycotting SISU is that ultimately, it is hard to take but you join the list of people who in trying to hurt SISU are just damaging the club...

 

[SkyBlueCRJ]

Going back to the original point of the thread; IMO SISU only view CCFC as another one of their assets, there is no emotional tie to the club, desire to see the club succeed or the fans be happy, we are just another avenue to potentially getting some sort of financial reward - although I haven't got a clue how this strategy works other than through litigation. As a fan it makes it easy to divorce the club from SISU because ultimately they don't care about football at all and the football is all I care about with CCFC - this talk is something that, quite frankly gets on my tits and distracts from what I enjoy.

However, standing back, only being an asset to SISU is what potentially hurts us in the long run, because if we are only asset of theirs and they operate to devalue other organisations assets in order to make a gain, then the most likely outcome is that those organisations will respond by devaluing SISU's asset i.e. CCFC. SISU don't really care how their actions might affect the long term future of the club or what affect that will have within the community, they are driven by a single aim, which is to fulfil their strategic needs. This is reflected in the decision to cease rental payments and then move away from the Ricoh to devalue ACL where all the risk was stacked on the football club. Personally when I first read the Wasps stuff I just thought that the council had called SISU's bluff and would ultimately sell to SISU, but it seems that egos at the council needed massaging and they plumped with the option of really trying to hurt SISU by selling to Wasps, but all the council did was damage the long term future of the city's community assets by making it near impossible for CCFC to ever own the Ricoh. Now we see SISU trying to devalue Wasps asset, and surprise surprise, Wasps are now threatening to kick us out... Ultimately I don't think they will kick us out however everything they are doing now in refusing to talk is aimed causing CCFC pain and I worry that SISU are not really bothered about the pain that may be caused and which will be felt by us.

However, you can't blame SISU for everything, this ultimately all began by the council refusing to discuss the terms of playing at the Ricoh and then putting CCFC into administration. As for Wasps, they've stepped into the middle of a damaging game between the council and SISU and appear to now be another organisation who are currently putting pressure on the football club, although it may be retaliation against SISU I still don't like to see it happen because it is us that are affected. Some people perceive it as sticking one to SISU but as I've said above, I don't think it bothers them in the slightest and possibly just adds more fuel to their fire. I've not got a clue what the answer is, you can't take the council out of the equation, taking Wasps out of the equation opens up various long term possibilities but we are left with the initial problem of the Council and SISU being at each other and SISU don't seem to have any desire to go.

Therefore, having got this off my chest I've decided to look forward to continuing watching what I enjoy, and seeing city hopefully continue their good form against Accrington.

Solid analysis but there's no smoke without fire. The Council has treated the club shockingly since our administration, but that's simply down to the fact that now they see the club and SISU as one and as a result, want to do everything they can to get SISU out of the city regardless who's affected. That has caused CCFC to be considered as collateral damage, nothing else. SISU need to take heed of the proverb "those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones". Their American 'draw em' and shoot attitude' doesn't work in England, and clearly they've learnt that the hard way. Like you said all the Council have done is retaliate - with a bigger bite than SISU. We now currently find ourselves in a WW1 scenario where each side is taking little nibbles at each other but in reality each camp is in a stalemate. Unless SISU back down completely and start co-operating with both Wasps and the council there is little chance of bridges being built - and even then it's unlikely any shred of tattered relationships (if there were any to begin with) will be rekindled.

I've heard that within the club that those at the top are, and I quote, 'very concerned', with the stadium situation from initial talks. Although I have faith we'll be playing in the Ricoh next season, it's by no means a guarantee, probably the furthest thing from it at the minute.

 

[chiefdave]

Yes they did, sisu forced them to do it.
It’s simply a case of economics, what was the council supposed to do with an empty stadium?

What a load of rubbish. SISU didn't force them to do anything.

We had Lucas repeatedly stating that ACL was 'washing its face', therefore just wait SISU out. Of course if Wasps were as desperate for a stadium as claim and there genuinely was no other option for them sure they would have been happy to rent. ACL could have moved them in as a tenant leaving the option in place for CCFC to purchase.

Or if all else failed the council has huge reserves, they could have covered any shortfall while ACL got its act together to become non-reliant on CCFC.
For a start

I'm presuming that you, and all those who are venting at the Council, will be changing their votes in the next election?

That assumes people only vote based on one issue.

Given we are told there was unanimous cross party support (funnily enough there wasn't prior to the council meeting with Wasps where no members of the press or public were allowed and no minutes were taken) who should we vote for as an alternative?
​

 

[Legia Sky Blue]

The club was back at the stadium fatty and had made noises about longer term details. The council lied in public about the prospects of a longer term deal whilst negotiating with Wasps in the background.
My personal view is that Wasps were the context to the failed negotiations in 2012/13.
Makes me laugh how Fisher's statements are or aren't credible to fit whatever argument you've got.

You are re-inventing history there. When Wasps publicly came on the scene we were still playing at Northampton, with Fisher & Co still peddling the new stadium line. Yes we pretty much all knew it was bluster, and designed into pressuring ownership of the Ricoh to SISU on their terms, but the rent strike approach of starving ACL of funds was always going to result in burning bridges, and damaging relations with people we needed on side. I don't understand how you, Nick, Grendel etc don't accept that, as it seems so obvious, and was at the time. SISU only started making noises about a longer term stay at the Ricoh, after they had hurriedly returned in the panic that ensued, following Wasps official interest in buying. Even then Fisher was still unhelpfully publicly quoting our plans to build our own stadium, providing further ammunition to those enemies he had made in ACL/CCC/ Higgs. Fisher should have been either voluntarily or forcibly removed from his post at this point, and SISU should have taken a more conciliatory approach through a replacement, to try and win favour of the Council, a number of whom I presume are CCFC supporters and,could potentially have been won over, and persuaded to place internal pressure and division on the sale to Wasps. How Fisher is still in his role at the club is beyond me, moreover if your view that Wasps were the context to the earlier failed negotiations, then Fisher & SISU's subsequent decision to starve ACL, of funds was even more of a short sighted and stupid one.

At the end of the day we can argue until we are blue in the face about whether CCC had a moral obligation to support CCFC, but the fact is our gates of 10-12k, make up a distinctly small proportion of the whole Coventry electorate to who they are answerable. Given SISU's previous dealings with them, could CCC trust them in any negotiations to get the best deal for the City of Coventry, or indeed CCFC? It is SISU's ultimate responsibility to do the best for CCFC and represent it's interests, not CCC, and that is why I hold them accountable as the primary ones who should be blamed for our potentially 'groundless' future (also with a nod to previous Chairmen & Owners of course).

 

[fatso]

What a load of rubbish. SISU didn't force them to do anything.

We had Lucas repeatedly stating that ACL was 'washing its face', therefore just wait SISU out. Of course if Wasps were as desperate for a stadium as claim and there genuinely was no other option for them sure they would have been happy to rent. ACL could have moved them in as a tenant leaving the option in place for CCFC to purchase.

Or if all else failed the council has huge reserves, they could have covered any shortfall while ACL got its act together to become non-reliant on CCFC.
For a start

That assumes people only vote based on one issue.

Given we are told there was unanimous cross party support (funnily enough there wasn't prior to the council meeting with Wasps where no members of the press or public were allowed and no minutes were taken) who should we vote for as an alternative?
​

The council cash reserves stood at £48m at the end of 2017
These reserves are tiny compared to the £613m pension deficit that the council were (and still are) struggling with.
Wasps had stated that they were not interested in renting a stadium, so that possibility was never even on the table.
Ccfc were never going to be in a position to buy the stadium, sisu were, but had proven impossible to trust.
An independent party had been brought in, to value the Ricoh, so it was not sold off cheap to wasps. (Hence the rejection of sisu’s case in court)

I hate to correct you chiefdave, but I’m not the one talking a load of rubbish!

 

[Nick]

You are re-inventing history there. When Wasps publicly came on the scene we were still playing at Northampton, with Fisher & Co still peddling the new stadium line. Yes we pretty much all knew it was bluster, and designed into pressuring ownership of the Ricoh to SISU on their terms, but the rent strike approach of starving ACL of funds was always going to result in burning bridges, and damaging relations with people we needed on side. I don't understand how you, Nick, Grendel etc don't accept that, as it seems so obvious, and was at the time. SISU only started making noises about a longer term stay at the Ricoh, after they had hurriedly returned in the panic that ensued, following Wasps official interest in buying. Even then Fisher was still unhelpfully publicly quoting our plans to build our own stadium, providing further ammunition to those enemies he had made in ACL/CCC/ Higgs. Fisher should have been either voluntarily or forcibly removed from his post at this point, and SISU should have taken a more conciliatory approach through a replacement, to try and win favour of the Council, a number of whom I presume are CCFC supporters and,could potentially have been won over, and persuaded to place internal pressure and division on the sale to Wasps. How Fisher is still in his role at the club is beyond me, moreover if your view that Wasps were the context to the earlier failed negotiations, then Fisher & SISU's subsequent decision to starve ACL, of funds was even more of a short sighted and stupid one.

At the end of the day we can argue until we are blue in the face about whether CCC had a moral obligation to support CCFC, but the fact is our gates of 10-12k, make up a distinctly small proportion of the whole Coventry electorate to who they are answerable. Given SISU's previous dealings with them, could CCC trust them in any negotiations to get the best deal for the City of Coventry, or indeed CCFC? It is SISU's ultimate responsibility to do the best for CCFC and represent it's interests, not CCC, and that is why I hold them accountable as the primary ones who should be blamed for our potentially 'groundless' future (also with a nod to previous Chairmen & Owners of course).

Wasps were on the scene in 2012.

When the Ricoh was sold, CCFC played there and the council were speaking about building up trust to then do a deal.

Aren't they both facts?

 

[Nick]

The council cash reserves stood at £48m at the end of 2017
These reserves are tiny compared to the £613m pension deficit that the council were (and still are) struggling with.
Wasps had stated that they were not interested in renting a stadium, so that possibility was never even on the table.
Ccfc were never going to be in a position to buy the stadium, sisu were, but had proven impossible to trust.
An independent party had been brought in, to value the Ricoh, so it was not sold off cheap to wasps. (Hence the rejection of sisu’s case in court)

I hate to correct you chiefdave, but I’m not the one talking a load of rubbish!

You still aren't explaining how they were forced to sell anything?

So Wasps weren't interested in renting so it means they were forced to sell it to them? Strange that.

 

[fatso]

You are re-inventing history there. When Wasps publicly came on the scene we were still playing at Northampton, with Fisher & Co still peddling the new stadium line. Yes we pretty much all knew it was bluster, and designed into pressuring ownership of the Ricoh to SISU on their terms, but the rent strike approach of starving ACL of funds was always going to result in burning bridges, and damaging relations with people we needed on side. I don't understand how you, Nick, Grendel etc don't accept that, as it seems so obvious, and was at the time. SISU only started making noises about a longer term stay at the Ricoh, after they had hurriedly returned in the panic that ensued, following Wasps official interest in buying. Even then Fisher was still unhelpfully publicly quoting our plans to build our own stadium, providing further ammunition to those enemies he had made in ACL/CCC/ Higgs. Fisher should have been either voluntarily or forcibly removed from his post at this point, and SISU should have taken a more conciliatory approach through a replacement, to try and win favour of the Council, a number of whom I presume are CCFC supporters and,could potentially have been won over, and persuaded to place internal pressure and division on the sale to Wasps. How Fisher is still in his role at the club is beyond me, moreover if your view that Wasps were the context to the earlier failed negotiations, then Fisher & SISU's subsequent decision to starve ACL, of funds was even more of a short sighted and stupid one.

At the end of the day we can argue until we are blue in the face about whether CCC had a moral obligation to support CCFC, but the fact is our gates of 10-12k, make up a distinctly small proportion of the whole Coventry electorate to who they are answerable. Given SISU's previous dealings with them, could CCC trust them in any negotiations to get the best deal for the City of Coventry, or indeed CCFC? It is SISU's ultimate responsibility to do the best for CCFC and represent it's interests, not CCC, and that is why I hold them accountable as the primary ones who should be blamed for our potentially 'groundless' future (also with a nod to previous Chairmen & Owners of course).

Perfectly put sir,
Unfortunately I fear you are wasting your time on here, This is a forum of people who’s ability to see common sence, reason, and fact, is obscured by their blind passion for all things ccfc.
Anyone with the ability to seperate passions from cold hard facts, MUST be a ccc and wasps apologist, or be seeking to give the same a free ride.

Ccfc is now in the hands of a privately owned hedge fund who choose to hide who the investors are behind a cloak of secrecy, And who insist on running their buisiness by using lengthy legal procedures to batter anyone who stands in their way, and who break legally binding contracts at a whim.
We will see in two weeks what their next intentions are, and how much they care about the football club.

 

[Nick]

Perfectly put sir,
Unfortunately I fear you are wasting your time on here, This is a forum of people who’s ability to see common sence, reason, and fact, is obscured by their blind passion for all things ccfc.
Anyone with the ability to seperate passions from cold hard facts, MUST be a ccc and wasps apologist, or be seeking to give the same a free ride.

Ccfc is now in the hands of a privately owned hedge fund who choose to hide who the investors are behind a cloak of secrecy, And who insist on running their buisiness by using lengthy legal procedures to batter anyone who stands in their way, and who break legally binding contracts at a whim.
We will see in two weeks what their next intentions are, and how much they care about the football club.

People are talking with facts though, what's factually wrong?

People say about apologists / giving a free ride / pushing something when people only really bother to post on threads like this and come matchday vanish.

It's all well and good saying how CCFC / SISU can't be trusted because of legals or contracts, weren't the Rugby club you seem keen to jump in and post about caught out trying to fiddle some numbers and their auditor sacked them off? It's hardly as if one is an angel and the other is a devil. I'd trust neither SISU or Wasps.

 

[fatso]

You still aren't explaining how they were forced to sell anything?

So Wasps weren't interested in renting so it means they were forced to sell it to them? Strange that.

It’s quite simple really, The councils financial position is what forced them to offload what was a cash draining empty facility with a falling valuation, to anyone with a few quid who was willing to take it off their hands.

If you owned a second house and rented it out, and you could find no new tenants to rent it, how long would you be prepared to loose money on it?
And remember the council are answerable to the rate payers, the voters, and central government, NOT the 10k fans of a privately owned football club.

I hope that spells it out for you Nick.

 

[Nick]

It’s quite simple really, The councils financial position is what forced them to offload what was a cash draining empty facility with a falling valuation, to anyone with a few quid who was willing to take it off their hands.

If you owned a second house and rented it out, and you could find no new tenants to rent it, how long would you be prepared to loose money on it?
And remember the council are answerable to the rate payers, the voters, and central government, NOT the 10k fans of a privately owned football club.

I hope that spells it out for you Nick.

The council leader said publicly that the Ricoh was washing it's face and it didn't need CCFC. If the council has a responsibility to taxpayers /voters / ratepayers why are they openly lying to them then?

If they were just desperate to get rid, why the secrecy and not just put it on the open market to try and get the best return possible on it?

Why had they discussed it with Wasps before the club had even moved out? Why didn't they extend the lease to 250 years previously to make financing it easier and take the noose from round it's neck?

 

[fatso]

And just to clarify my own possition here,
I don’t like the fact that sisu own us,
I don’t like the fact that the council sold the stadium,
I hate the fact that the Ricoh is now owned by a London rugby club.
And I despise the fact that ccfc’s future is in some doubt.
But those ARE the facts as they stand.
As far as I can see, only the sale of ccfc by sisu, will lead to an end to the current stand off, In the mean time I feel that another short term rent will be put in place until sisu exhaust all legal avenues regarding the JR. Only then will sisu have to decide what to do with ccfc.

 

[Nick]

And just to clarify my own possition here,
I don’t like the fact that sisu own us,
I don’t like the fact that the council sold the stadium,
I hate the fact that the Ricoh is now owned by a London rugby club.
And I despise the fact that ccfc’s future is in some doubt.
But those ARE the facts as they stand.
As far as I can see, only the sale of ccfc by sisu, will lead to an end to the current stand off, In the mean time I feel that another short term rent will be put in place until sisu exhaust all legal avenues regarding the JR. Only then will sisu have to decide what to do with ccfc.

SISU could sell the club tomorrow and CCFC would still never have the chance of owning or benefiting from a stadium in Coventry.

I think people miss the fact that the minute they sold up to Wasps damaged CCFC for many years after SISU have gone. Also that the stadium bickering is probably one of the reasons we ended up with SISU rather than the other parties.

 

[fatso]

The council leader said publicly that the Ricoh was washing it's face and it didn't need CCFC. If the council has a responsibility to taxpayers /voters / ratepayers why are they openly lying to them then?

If they were just desperate to get rid, why the secrecy and not just put it on the open market to try and get the best return possible on it?

Why had they discussed it with Wasps before the club had even moved out? Why didn't they extend the lease to 250 years previously to make financing it easier and take the noose from round it's neck?

The council lying - that’s what politicians do!!! In buisiness you can’t trust anyone, It’s a sick game in which sisu rolled the dice and lost, no one is blameless however.
Regarding the secrecy, That suited both sides, the council didn’t want another stadium owner competing for a buyer, and wasps didn’t want anyone pushing the price up, that’s the nature of big property deals.
And there is hardly a market for empty, 30000 seater football grounds with no tenants.

 

[fatso]

SISU could sell the club tomorrow and CCFC would still never have the chance of owning or benefiting from a stadium in Coventry.

I think people miss the fact that the minute they sold up to Wasps damaged CCFC for many years after SISU have gone. Also that the stadium bickering is probably one of the reasons we ended up with SISU rather than the other parties.

Your right, a sale of the club wouldn’t get them the ownership of the stadium,
But it would remove the people who have caused the bad feeling to all parties.
It would stop the JR, and allow a favourable long term solution regarding ccfc playing at the Ricoh.
That’s about the best we can hope for at this time,

 

[Nick]

Your right, a sale of the club wouldn’t get them the ownership of the stadium,
But it would remove the people who have caused the bad feeling to all parties.
It would stop the JR, and allow a favourable long term solution regarding ccfc playing at the Ricoh.
That’s about the best we can hope for at this time,

Don't you think selling the Ricoh to Wasps also is going to make it harder to get a new (actual) owner for CCFC, especially after the issues when SISU came in?

That's why people say selling it will do massive long term damage.

 

[Nick]

The council lying - that’s what politicians do!!! In buisiness you can’t trust anyone, It’s a sick game in which sisu rolled the dice and lost, no one is blameless however.
Regarding the secrecy, That suited both sides, the council didn’t want another stadium owner competing for a buyer, and wasps didn’t want anyone pushing the price up, that’s the nature of big property deals.
And there is hardly a market for empty, 30000 seater football grounds with no tenants.

So on one hand you say they are answerable to tax payers but on the other hand you say lying is what they do?

Your reason for the council keeping it secret is a bit weak. You have already said that Wasps didn't want to rent do they HAD to sell it to them, now the council kept it quiet because they didn't want other stadium sellers poaching Wasps?

Pushing the price up would have been best for the tax payer.

 

[fernandopartridge]

You are re-inventing history there. When Wasps publicly came on the scene we were still playing at Northampton, with Fisher & Co still peddling the new stadium line. Yes we pretty much all knew it was bluster, and designed into pressuring ownership of the Ricoh to SISU on their terms, but the rent strike approach of starving ACL of funds was always going to result in burning bridges, and damaging relations with people we needed on side. I don't understand how you, Nick, Grendel etc don't accept that, as it seems so obvious, and was at the time. SISU only started making noises about a longer term stay at the Ricoh, after they had hurriedly returned in the panic that ensued, following Wasps official interest in buying. Even then Fisher was still unhelpfully publicly quoting our plans to build our own stadium, providing further ammunition to those enemies he had made in ACL/CCC/ Higgs. Fisher should have been either voluntarily or forcibly removed from his post at this point, and SISU should have taken a more conciliatory approach through a replacement, to try and win favour of the Council, a number of whom I presume are CCFC supporters and,could potentially have been won over, and persuaded to place internal pressure and division on the sale to Wasps. How Fisher is still in his role at the club is beyond me, moreover if your view that Wasps were the context to the earlier failed negotiations, then Fisher & SISU's subsequent decision to starve ACL, of funds was even more of a short sighted and stupid one.

At the end of the day we can argue until we are blue in the face about whether CCC had a moral obligation to support CCFC, but the fact is our gates of 10-12k, make up a distinctly small proportion of the whole Coventry electorate to who they are answerable. Given SISU's previous dealings with them, could CCC trust them in any negotiations to get the best deal for the City of Coventry, or indeed CCFC? It is SISU's ultimate responsibility to do the best for CCFC and represent it's interests, not CCC, and that is why I hold them accountable as the primary ones who should be blamed for our potentially 'groundless' future (also with a nod to previous Chairmen & Owners of course).

I am not at all. Wasps publicly came on the scene as a buyer when CCFC had returned to the Ricoh. CCFC were in talks over the summer, I exclusively revealed on here.

19th August 2014: It was confirmed to me that CCFC had agreed to return

Ricoh rumour

5th September 2014: Coventry City play their first match back at the Ricoh Arena

Coventry City 1-0 Gillingham

18th September 2014: Wasps in talks to buy Ricoh Arena

Rugby club Wasps in talks to buy major stake in Ricoh Arena

This story makes reference to them wanting to play just European games there initially.....

 

[Malaka]

SISU could sell the club tomorrow and CCFC would still never have the chance of owning or benefiting from a stadium in Coventry.

I think people miss the fact that the minute they sold up to Wasps damaged CCFC for many years after SISU have gone. Also that the stadium bickering is probably one of the reasons we ended up with SISU rather than the other parties.

I disagree Nick. If CCFC were sold to another owner, I think that WASP's would welcome the chance of joint ownership of the stadium with CCFC

 

[ceetee]

.
And there is hardly a market for empty, 30000 seater football grounds with no tenants.

That's what SISU thought.
They were wrong so why are you right?

 

[Nick]

I disagree Nick. If CCFC were sold to another owner, I think that WASP's would welcome the chance of joint ownership of the stadium with CCFC

Then you have to find an owner for the club who thinks that handing millions to Wasps for not much more than 50% of loads of debt is a good idea.

The point before it was sold to Wasps, there was much more movement and loads more options for a potential new owner of CCFC and the Ricoh. Even before SISU there was as well.

 

[fatso]

That's what SISU thought.
They were wrong so why are you right?

1 buyer is not a market.

 

[Nick]

1 buyer is not a market.

If there's no market, why did Wasps want to keep it secret like you just said?

 

[fatso]

I am not at all. Wasps publicly came on the scene as a buyer when CCFC had returned to the Ricoh. CCFC were in talks over the summer, I exclusively revealed on here.

19th August 2014: It was confirmed to me that CCFC had agreed to return

Ricoh rumour

5th September 2014: Coventry City play their first match back at the Ricoh Arena

Coventry City 1-0 Gillingham

18th September 2014: Wasps in talks to buy Ricoh Arena

Rugby club Wasps in talks to buy major stake in Ricoh Arena

This story makes reference to them wanting to play just European games there initially.....

I think I’d be correct in saying the council and wasps were in talks, long before it was in the public domain.

 

[WhaleOilBeefHooked]

Putting quite a controversial point forward here, what is so wrong about renting a stadium? Provided that we don't get bent over and charged an extortionate rent?

It's true, we don't get an asset on our books, or the cash from the events - however we also don't get lumbered with the upkeep, costs and maintenance of that asset. All money earned via CCFC effectively stays in CCFC, minus rent, rather than paying a debt off. It's pretty much akin to renting a house which works very well in every country apart from the UK where ownership isn't seen as a 'must'. That obviously means we can't lend money with the Ricoh as collateral, however we all know that going into debt didn't work out so well previously...

In other words, are people annoyed at the fact we are renting the Ricoh? Or are they more annoyed that we didn't get it and Wasps did? Because, technically speaking, is it really that detrimental to rent rather than to own?

The only way I see getting through this is:
1) For CCFC to, somehow, go shared ownership with Wasps (possible)
2) Wasps go under (unlikely)
3) Build a new stadium (not at all likely)

 

[fatso]

If there's no market, why did Wasps want to keep it secret like you just said?

That’s the nature of big buisiness, anything could go wrong, who’s to say a massive property developer wouldn’t step in, bulldoze the arena and build houses on the land? (Only an example)
If your trying to close a buisiness deal, you don’t publicise it till it’s done and the contracts are signed, or at least until a binding financial commitment has been made by both parties. That’s how multi million pound deals work.
And that’s why fernandopartridges time line post above is pointless.

 

[rob9872]

4) Wasps takeover of CCFC - not a desired outcome but would link the club back with the facilities

 

[Nick]

That’s the nature of big buisiness, anything could go wrong, who’s to say a massive property developer wouldn’t step in, bulldoze the arena and build houses on the land? (Only an example)
If your trying to close a buisiness deal, you don’t publicise it till it’s done and the contracts are signed, or at least until a binding financial commitment has been made by both parties. That’s how multi million pound deals work.
And that’s why fernandopartridges time line post above is pointless.

If you are trying to get the best return you don't go with the first deal that comes along, you play potential buyers off against each other to get the best deal. To be honest, bulldozing it and building houses would probably have got them a better return and would have morally made them look better after they had spent the previous couple of years preaching about how sports teams belong in their city.

The timeline isn't that pointless is it? Especially when you add the council were still lying to the people you claim they have to answer to and they had spoken to Wasps even before CCFC had moved out.

 

[ceetee]

1 buyer is not a market.

But one buyer is enough for a sale

 

[Nick]

I think I’d be correct in saying the council and wasps were in talks, long before it was in the public domain.

Long before CCFC moved away, too.

 

[ceetee]

That’s the nature of big buisiness, anything could go wrong, who’s to say a massive property developer wouldn’t step in, bulldoze the arena and build houses on the land? (Only an example)

So if Wasps default on their bond (only an example) could the bondholders sell the lease to the highest bidder, who might be a property developer, or is there some constraint?
I'm not asking you personally, that's a general question