Johhny Blue
Well-Known Member
But we’re not in all competitions
Match Thread Walsall vs. Coventry City Match Thread - Saturday 10th Nov (8 Viewers)
- Thread starter Nick
- Start date
Johhny Blue
Well-Known Member
Halle fuckin luia
johnwillomagic
Well-Known Member
Hi Yes thought about this one and Grendel is right Bakayoko should start in this one - if he can't be up to turn in a good performance in this one then think we may have to resign ourselves to signing a little bit of a wrongun - I think personally JCH does need a bit of a kick up the ass in some ways namely goalscoring he has wasted some good chances - however would still go with a strong team. Walsall had to play tonight too so hoping they may be a bit leggy Saturday?
Side I would go with below.
Burge GK
Grimmer RB
Brown LB
Hyam CB
Willis CB
Doyle CM
Kelly CM
Hiwula LM
Thomas RM
Bakayoko ST
Chaplin ST
Subs: O'Brien, Davies, Thompson. Shipley, Ogogo, Jones, JCH
Side I would go with below.
Burge GK
Grimmer RB
Brown LB
Hyam CB
Willis CB
Doyle CM
Kelly CM
Hiwula LM
Thomas RM
Bakayoko ST
Chaplin ST
Subs: O'Brien, Davies, Thompson. Shipley, Ogogo, Jones, JCH
pusbccfc
Well-Known Member
Will be the total opposite. All you'll hear Saturday is '20 goals Bakayoko'.
SkyBlueJord
Active Member
I'd play something like the following:
GK O'Brien
RB Grimmer
CB Hyam
CB Davies
LB Mason
RM Jones
CM Kelly/Ogogo
CM Andreu (if fit)
LM Hiwula
ST Baka
ST Chaplin
Willis was lucky to even finish the Accrington game, he was running around on one foot by the end of it. Doyle could do with a rest/see how we function with the likes of Kelly or Ogogo in that position. Andreu should be trained for Bayliss back-up, he has the ability, passing range and reads the game well, just doesn't have the pace to play further up the pitch. Besdies, having him on should improve some set pieces.
GK O'Brien
RB Grimmer
CB Hyam
CB Davies
LB Mason
RM Jones
CM Kelly/Ogogo
CM Andreu (if fit)
LM Hiwula
ST Baka
ST Chaplin
Willis was lucky to even finish the Accrington game, he was running around on one foot by the end of it. Doyle could do with a rest/see how we function with the likes of Kelly or Ogogo in that position. Andreu should be trained for Bayliss back-up, he has the ability, passing range and reads the game well, just doesn't have the pace to play further up the pitch. Besdies, having him on should improve some set pieces.
SkyBlueCRJ
Well-Known Member
Not sure Jones is quite ready to start in first team games. The tempo and physicality is much more demanding on a player in comparison to U23 football. Also, Andreu isn't a CM and is completely past it, leave him on the bench until he proves otherwise.
Hobo
Well-Known Member
I don't get this rest players? Isn't it football manger speak for "I haven't dropped him, I am just giving someone else game time." Match fitness can only be obtained by playing so keeping the squad involved is important. A rest is just a rest, you can give them a couple of days off training if it is just a rest. Letting knocks fully recover might be another reason to miss a competitive game.
SkyBlueJord
Active Member
Completely agree, U23 football is no comparison to first team games, but if he can finish the last few games getting 20-30 mins, no reason why he can't play the first 60 mins, ease up to full fitness. This is the type of game you'd want to trial these things.
I'm interested, what makes you think Andreu is 'completely past it'? Yes he doesn't have pace, but his attributes would much better suit CM in the similar role that Bayliss plays, than where he was playing at the start of the season.
NortonSkyBlue
Well-Known Member
Or some of the players have been blowing out of their arse and it would be a good opportunity to test some others in a competitive game.
For example JamesCCFC has stated " leave Andreu on the bench until he proves he is not past it" well that will answer that question by sitting on the bench!
SkyBlueCRJ
Well-Known Member
Maybe but it depends if MR wants to take that risk given that JJ isn't 100% fit. Is it worth starting a player just to get minutes when realistically we could a good cup run for January funds? An argument could be made that starting an unfit player could potentially harm our chances of coming away with a win. I'd rather integrate JJ slowly as it'll be a disaster if his injury reoccurs for the sake of a 'trial'. Plus, he's been effective coming off the bench in the final 20 mins of a match since his return so why not use him as a secret weapon for the time being?
Given the severity of Andreu's injury I fear it's taken its toll on both his fitness levels and overall game sharpness. Suffering an ACL when you're knocking on the door of 30 doesn't exactly bode well for any player regardless of their quality due to the simple fact that as you grow older your body doesn't recover as quickly from injury. From what I've seen of Andreu so far this season, he looks way off the mark. His decision making is poor, his passing (which you've claimed as one of his specialities) has been sloppy, and although he never had a great deal of pace to begin with, on the pitch he looks slower than time. We're nearly half way through the season now so I can't accept lack of fitness as an excuse I'm afraid.
His attributes definitely wouldn't suit CM. He doesn't have the legs to play in the centre for a start, he's a forward thinking player who lacks the defensive knowhow to cover his fellow man in the centre or track back and as I've mentioned in this post, judging from previous performances so far this season he simply lacks the quality or the legs to play there.
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SkyBlueJord
Active Member
Game time is the best way to get minutes, I guess it all boils down to if MR wants to go for a cup run, or happy to give fringe players some minutes. Given the quality of our fringe players, I would prefer MR to give them game time where we can. Given the form of our starting league team, I'd prefer to not disrupt that and give them minutes at other opportunites.
The trouble was that MR was playing Andreu as a ST early in the season, I think we can both agree that this is not his position. From his combined game time, before his injury included. He absolutely does have a great range of passing. Look at the EFL Analytics post as an example. Yes early season a lot of things didn't come off, but the squad as a whole everything didn't come off. Our progression in recent games is the fact, on the whole MR has stuck with a squad and allowed them to gel. I don't think he will ever have the quality to replace Bayliss, but it is clear to see that when he isn't playing we lose a lot of creativity, and Chaplin has to drop a lot deeper to compensate. Meerly considering our current crop and considering who could fill that void.
SkyBlueCRJ
Well-Known Member
He's getting minutes under his belt already though? He's playing in the U23s on a Monday and then gets 20mins+ on a Saturday. At this point in time in his recovery timeline I view that as sufficient for now.
I'm afraid as a League One club who survives by breaking even we don't have the luxury to consider an F.A. Cup game against a difficult side as an opportunity to 'give fringe players some minutes'. If MR believes those fringe players have shown enough quality and drive to warrant a start then by all means start them. But to put out a lesser side and treat an F.A. Cup fixture as nothing more than a warm up game would be a ridiculous decision. It's all about momentum as shown by last season's success at the end of the season through to the Play-Off run. So I wholeheartedly disagree we should be using fringe players on Saturday. We shouldn't view the fixture any differently to that of a league fixture as we should be going into every game wanting a W - and any manager at our level who disagrees shouldn't be a manager frankly.
No he wasn't he was playing him as a No.10. just behind the ST as a CAM - which is his preferred position. Fair enough he tops the charts but I'm afraid I stand by my view that statistics aren't everything as they're far too black and white and fail to consider variables. For instance these are his ratings in the games he's played this season: Scunthorpe: 8, Wimbledon: 5, Gillingham: 7, Plymouth: 5, Blackpool: 4, Rochdale: 4, Oxford: 5, can't find a rating for Arsenal but guessing around a 5, Bristol Rovers: 6, Portsmouth: 3, FGR: 6. This gives him an average rating of just over 5 this season....so whilst the stats put him perhaps as the most effective passer in the league his performances suggest he's not up to the mark so far this season. Also, remember a great passer doesn't necessarily quality as a CM, there's far more to mastering the position than that.
The primary issue is, the formation he fits into suits him but no one else and to me the whole situation reminds me of the Joe Cole scenario where we expect this world beater to start performing when in reality we're constantly wondering whether he'll ever be fully fit.
You can consider who could fill the void all you like but unfortunately we don't currently have a player that can fill in for Bayliss - hence why in my eyes he's irreplaceable. This is something we need to look at in Jan but until then we pray Bayliss remains fit.
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SkyBlueCRJ
Well-Known Member
I'm all for giving players opportunities but come on he hasn't even been performing in the U23s when he's played in reserve games this season. We're nearly mid-way through the season and simply saying he's not fit enough doesn't cut it for me anymore because questions then have to be asked why is he failing to get fit? Okay the tempo and quality is different in the U23s to that of first team football but he's still getting the same minutes as he would on a Saturday/Tuesday. MR should give opportunities to those that warrant a start, not casualties who are probably going to struggle with their fitness for the foreseeable future unless a miracle happens.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
He won’t
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
I think we'll make a few changes but keep a strong team for this and then change up midweek.
Burge
Brown
Hyam (Willis appears to have been carrying an injury lately (but then when isn't he?)
Davies
Grimmer (If Sterling is even slightly injured shouldn't be risked)
Hiwula
Doyle
Kelly (Needs matchtime and Bayliss injury?)
Jones (Need matchtime and Thomas cup-tied?)
Bakayoko
JCH
Think it'll be a close match but we'll edge it 2-1.
Burge
Brown
Hyam (Willis appears to have been carrying an injury lately (but then when isn't he?)
Davies
Grimmer (If Sterling is even slightly injured shouldn't be risked)
Hiwula
Doyle
Kelly (Needs matchtime and Bayliss injury?)
Jones (Need matchtime and Thomas cup-tied?)
Bakayoko
JCH
Think it'll be a close match but we'll edge it 2-1.
steve82
Well-Known Member
Andreu is a central midfielder by trade but more recently in his career has been used further forward when the 4231 become the go to formation for most sides. He can play that role.
When he’s played the no 10 role this season or second striker however people see it he had nobody ahead of him making any significant movement to put in. It didn’t work plus the fact he looked rusty too early on, the lack of goals in the side and building negativity around the side 6/7 games in enhanced his poor ratings.
However the stats generated this week show what a asset he could be if utilised in a deeper role with movement of Chaplin, Thomas or JJ for that when fit ahead of him to pick a pass. Every time I’ve seen him this season he’s always looking to receive the ball in a forward thinking way and at times thinking and vision as been fractionally ahead of his static team mates.
There’s no doubting tho it’s a big injury at the wrong end of his career to bounce back to the ability you knew you once had.
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SkyBlueCRJ
Well-Known Member
Is he? I know he was playing CAM at Hamilton Athletic so not sure how early we're talking here. Regardless, if he was pushed further forward into a CAM role surely that puts a question mark over his actual ability to be an effective CM. For instance, Shipley's natural position when he broke through was CM. However, that doesn't necessarily qualify him to be effective there hence why he was pushed to the left. Plus, maybe that's when Andreu actually had the legs? Given his lack of fitness at the minute, putting him in front of the back four would be nothing short of suicidal.
Exactly, which reiterates my point. He only fits into a system that suits him and no one else. So why retain him come January when when he doesn't fit our style of play and probably more crucially for the player, isn't playing consistently?
How does that qualify him to be an asset at CM though? As I previously mentioned there is far more to being a successful CM than possessing the ability to ping the odd half-decent ball or make a killer pass. From what I've seen so far this season Andreu hasn't got the legs or the defensive knowhow to be effective enough if dropped deeper. Not when the only other options are: Ogogo who's currently playing like he's never seen a football before, Doyle who needs someone to do all the attacking work for him so he can last the full 90 and Kelly who isn't 100% fit?
I hope I'm wrong and he does bounce back but I don't see the logic in playing him in positions where he has little or no experience in for the sake of him 'getting some minutes' when he's still struggling with his fitness levels and subsequently will probably suffer come matchday. That's neither helpful for the player nor (and most importantly) the team. Understandably fans are hopeful but I just can't grasp why when we could get someone in equally as good (or better) on the same wage in January?
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Sky Blue Harry H
Well-Known Member
.....and how will he prove anything from the bench? No comprendez !!
SkyBlueCRJ
Well-Known Member
Leave him out altogether then as long as he stays clear of the Starting XI.
Sky Blue Harry H
Well-Known Member
Ok . Wouldn't pick him until he has some U23 time in his legs (although if MR says ok, then fine by me). As a side note CWR said earlier that Derby have given permission for Thomas to play!! Good news!
SkyBlueCRJ
Well-Known Member
MR's the boss so if Andreu plays then who am I to criticise, but unless he finds his legs between now and Saturday I'll stand by my extreme sense of skepticism.
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Paxman II
Well-Known Member
Absolutely not! So you want to cobble a bunch of players together who have barely had a game or two between them apart from maybe Chaplin and expect them to win? It's the FA Cup not the Checkertrade.
Ricketts
Well-Known Member
That's brilliant news. Changes my mind and am going to go to the game now.
steve82
Well-Known Member
Yeah at Livingstone and then Hamilton he played in Center mid and later in a more forward role when they changed to a 4231 at the time it became the go to formation for many in the uk.
You suggest he could of been moved forward as he lacked something to play a central role, maybe it was his vision and ability with the ball in a forward thinking way that made the tactical move as the manager at the time wanted to change his teams style and he fitted the role better out of the players in the squad, that’s something we will never know unless it’s asked of him to comment.
It’s quite a assumption you make that he now only fits a 4231 in a 10 and the legs are gone while also lacking the defensive know how when you’ve only seen him play in a attacking sense in the no 10 role or second striker, a role that’s to be creative and feed the wide players, overlapping men or man up front in a side that’s looked static lacking movement we’ve judged him on. Countless times I’ve seen him receive the ball looking for that next pass but nothing was on as nobody had put themselves in a opportunity.
It’s only fair to say it’s also my strong assumption that he still can play and offer something in that central role after the injury he’s had, but to be so strongly dismissive is wrong. Only MR is in that position to see.
To many on here Doyle’s legs are gone too but that depends on the expectations of what you think a player should be doing or asked of by the manager in a certain role. All interpretations in my eyes.
Finally you suggest the possibility of getting someone in January on his wages who could be better, naturally anyone if manager including myself would look to do that and recycle the squad to best use however it’s November and he is under contract on the books and currently is when deemed fit available for selection as the window is closed.
It’s something I’d try in the checkatrade games before casting last judgements on his ccfc career moving forward.
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Nick
Administrator
Bets added - https://skybluestalk.co.uk/sportsbook/
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
We sold out yet
SkyBlueCRJ
Well-Known Member
CovInEssex
Well-Known Member
Looking at their forum, they're a very pessimistic bunch at the moment indeed. Let's put them to the sword and give everyone a good day out.
steve82
Well-Known Member
I’ve said in that last post it’s only my assumption like you did in opposition. Both our opinions are assumptions but I’m clarifying he can play a central midfield role to which you claimed or interpreted he’s not. He’s a number of years experience playing in centrally in a 442 so it’s not foreign to him.
You say your basing opinion based in facts, so I ask you how are his legs are gone? To what brings this opinion or is it centred around he’s 30 and had a bad injury so it’s really hard to come back from?
It is a ask, tho not a huge one. He definitely looks dead on his feet in the second half from 60 mins in but the same can be said for a young fit Tom Bayliss from 70/75 mins onwards.
The switch from 4231 I totally agree as a side that formation don’t suit us, I also called for the change to a 442 style might I add. MR has since switched to a 442 or 4411 as it more seems like last weekend which we used v Portsmouth, to which the last time Andreu played in a position to which were now scoring Connor Chaplin down in his overall contribution and effect in games.
Is that the system or the player you have to ask?
All I’m saying is along side Doyle a more defence minded player you could play Andreu or more logically as a replacement later in games for Bayliss as naturally he’s a starter over Andreu.
It’s something I’d try in a checkatrade game alongside a defensive midfielder not play him as a second striker or no 10 with no movement around him.
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Gazolba
Well-Known Member
Rest players? They only play 90 minutes, once a week.
And the rest of the week they train for those 90 minutes
I work 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. And I don't train for it.
Dimi_Konstantflapalot
Well-Known Member
What a dumb fucking argument