clint van damme
Well-Known Member
it's been a success in Portugal.
What we're doing now isn't working, we need to try something different. The status quo isn't working.
London stabbings... (12 Viewers)
- Thread starter Alan Dugdales Moustache
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it's been a success in Portugal.
What we're doing now isn't working, we need to try something different. The status quo isn't working.
fellatio_Martinez
Well-Known Member
I agree. Since Rick Parfitt died it just doesn't work anymore.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
fair play, was expecting a post referencing the middle of the road 3 chord rock band but that was particularly quick off the draw.
Agreed. That's Portugal though where I suspect sensible drinking is also a success. People in this country want to get fucked up on anything. Booze, smack, bath salts you name it.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
they consume more alcohol than us, though I appreciate that doesn't mean they behave the way we do.
As for bath salts, legal highs would never have existed if drugs were legal, they were purely designed to ahead of the law. We wouldn't have had the current spice epidemic.
Whatever you can say about E, LSD, heroin etc they were designed for human consumption. 'Legal' highs were designed to stay on the right side of ever changing legislation.
I don't think Legalising, or at least decriminalising drugs is the answer to all of societys ills but I think it would be an improvement on prohibition as proven in the States when it was repealed.
dutchman
Well-Known Member
That depends what you call "success":
- The number of drug related deaths is now almost on the same level as before the Drug strategy was implemented.
- Reported lifetime use of "all illicit drugs" increased from 7.8% to 12%,
- lifetime use of cannabis increased from 7.6% to 11.7%,
- cocaine use more than doubled, from 0.9% to 1.9%,
- ecstasy nearly doubled from 0.7% to 1.3%, and
- heroin increased from 0.7% to 1.1%
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
It has hardly been the carnage that it was predicted to be and young people drink less now compared to previous generations. The stereotype of drug users being unable to work and on benefits is lazy as well
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
6 incredible things that happened when Portugal decriminalized all drugs
Here's what the data says about Portugal's decriminalization:
- Drug-related HIV infections have plummeted by over 90% since 2001, according to the drug-policy think tank Transform.
- Drug-related deaths in Portugal are the second-lowest in the European Union. Just three in a million people die of overdoses there, compared with the EU average of 17.3 per million.
- The number of adults who have done drugs in the past year has decreased steadily since 2001.
- Compared to rest of the EU, young people in Portugal now use the least amount of "legal high" drugs like synthetic marijuana, which are especially dangerous.
- The percentage of drug-related offenders in Portuguese prisons fell from 44% in 1999 to 21% in 2012.
- The number of people in drug-treatment increased 60% from 1998 to 2011 from 23,600 to 38,000.
Really?? Of all the people I know gripped with heroin addiction not one of them is able to live anything like what I would call a normal life.
Look it's just me but whilst legalising specific drugs may be wise a wholesale surrender seems ludicrous. If you could work on smack, meth or crack then fair play to you
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
there was an experiment in Brighton, (I think the documentary is on Youtube), where heroin addicts were paying for their heroin on prescription.
There was one lad who used to steal and beg a grand a week who was holding down a job. What we're doing now simply isn't working, we need to try something different.
Remember the legal status of drugs has changed throughout the years, they can change again.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
I was going to reference something similar to Clint above, and you do actually get functioning heroin addicts as well.
One of my best friends was for several years before it all fell apart and he nearly lost everything.
Just because something is legal/decriminalised, wouldn't mean it's really available for anyone to buy.
Fair point but if it's not readily available to buy wouldn't that defeat the point. I.e would still be a market for people prepared to make it readily available at a price. I mean I'm just thinking out loud I don't have the answer
SIR ERNIE
Well-Known Member
No?
In parroting the liberal line that “Portugal’s drug policy is a success” I’d say you’re the classic echo chamber. I spend several months of the year in Portugal. The authorities are not succeeding, they’ve just given up trying to beat it. They’ve capitulated.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
it's not parroting, it's what I've read from several sources.
And even if you're correct and their approach isn't working, and to be frank, I don't believe you are, it's worth trying something different because our approach certainly isn't.
The murder rate in the narco countries is out of control, prison populations spiralling due to drug offences, why not bring it under state control?
Like I said, prohibition is the perfect example. Doesn't mean the USA doesn't have any alcohol related social issues but surely it's better now than when it was under the control of mobsters?
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
I imagine that with drugs like heroin the vast majority want to get off it. Therefore I'd do something more like Switzerland where addicts can go and get heroin onsite and use in a safe space Heroin-assisted treatment in Switzerland: successfully regulating the supply and use of a high-risk injectable drug | Transform: Getting Drugs Under Control it's being trialled in the UK, I believe but I would roll it out a lot more across the country
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
In order for them to have access would mean getting onboard a treatment programme.
I'm not sure how many people's first experience or drugs is something like heroin but you're taking the supply of those softer drugs away from criminals and into the hands of the state. I wonder if this would lead to a reduction in those progressing onto heroin?
I would support the experiment if restricted to "soft" drugs
Gazolba
Well-Known Member
How about making it harder to obtain a knife?
Make the selling of knives illegal except to people who legitimately need them.
Make it illegal to sell them online or by mail. Has to be in person.
All knives have to have a serial number and be registered.
Increase the penatlies for carrying one to a huge fine and mandatory jail time.
Increase penalties for selling and distributing them illegally.
Give the public a grace period where they can hand in their knives for some compensation.
It requires political will, which probably isn't there, just like the political will to enforce non-flammable cladding on buildings isn't there.
Make the selling of knives illegal except to people who legitimately need them.
Make it illegal to sell them online or by mail. Has to be in person.
All knives have to have a serial number and be registered.
Increase the penatlies for carrying one to a huge fine and mandatory jail time.
Increase penalties for selling and distributing them illegally.
Give the public a grace period where they can hand in their knives for some compensation.
It requires political will, which probably isn't there, just like the political will to enforce non-flammable cladding on buildings isn't there.
Nick
Administrator
The thing with that is that people will get round it easily enough to make weapons like they do in prison.
Westendlad
Well-Known Member
The sick bastards who know they will only spend a couple of years in jail if caught..
Grendel
Well-Known Member
And have liberal apologists blaming their upbringing - a nice long rope would do the trick
Alan Dugdales Moustache
Well-Known Member
Since I started this thread, I think there have been at least two more stabbings. On tonight's bbc news it was about the 5th item . Why? Because the latest victim isn't dead but merely in a serious condition in hospital, American elections are far more important , The Irish border is more important, Philip Green is a wanker, the pound is up, M&S takings down 2%. It's not really important is it ?
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
I understand that and it'd be interesting to see if it had an impact on the harder stuff. IMO, alcohol and tobacco are both more harmful physically, emotionally and socially than 'softer' drugs.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
They should get a minimum of 20 years inside with no prospect of early release.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Sorry to take this off topic but down here a wealthy trustafarian has escaped jail for the following Brighton drug dealer spared jail after woman's fall | The Argus
The average person on the street would get looked up for this. A friend of mine knew him about 10 years ago and I had the misfortune of meeting him a couple of times and he was a full on weirdo.
The average person on the street would get looked up for this. A friend of mine knew him about 10 years ago and I had the misfortune of meeting him a couple of times and he was a full on weirdo.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Don’t let evidence get in the way of your prejudices Grendel. Death sentence never works as a deterrent. It’s a whole set of answers punitive measures along will do nothing
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Even Albert Pierrepoint's views eventually changed to anti-capital punishment.
dutchman
Well-Known Member
It has a 100% record of stopping reoffending though!
Grendel
Well-Known Member
No let’s put them inside for a few months - then they can come out and do it again.
I can’t say I’m talking deterrent it’s getting rid of some people I don’t want to share the same air with.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Fair enough
WhaleOilBeefHooked
Well-Known Member
Can't grumble with that.
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
In regards to crime, of course police cuts and general slashing of public services hasn't helped, but I do wonder what some people would be blaming instead of this hadn't been the case.
This is a society problem, unquestionably. A combination of bad parenting, bad cultures, and a society where progressively no one can do anything wrong with generally shitty attitudes towards others is just everywhere.
This problem is only going to get worse I fear.
This is a society problem, unquestionably. A combination of bad parenting, bad cultures, and a society where progressively no one can do anything wrong with generally shitty attitudes towards others is just everywhere.
This problem is only going to get worse I fear.