London stabbings... (15 Viewers)

[Nick]

oh i agree

punishment needs to deter people from doing it

that means longer sentences and prison being more of a horrible place to be

They won't be made horrible, too many people will cry about the poor souls human rights.

 

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[clint van damme]

They won't be made horrible, too many people will cry about the poor souls human rights.

I don't really care about the rights of criminals, but I do want a penal system that works.
The American prison system is brutal - gangs, rape, murder, the death penalty, they're still full to the brim and reoffending rates are ridiculous which suggests to me that that approach doesn't work.
I'd like criminals to come out of jail and not reoffend, that should be the goal however it's achieved.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Nick have you been to prison or in a prison. They are hopeless desperate places where people are not valued

 

[Nick]

Nick have you been to prison or in a prison. They are hopeless desperate places where people are not valued

The poor souls. We should hire some people to give them cuddles.

 

[Grendel]

Nick have you been to prison or in a prison. They are hopeless desperate places where people are not valued

Good

 

[Grendel]

I don't really care about the rights of criminals, but I do want a penal system that works.
The American prison system is brutal - gangs, rape, murder, the death penalty, they're still full to the brim and reoffending rates are ridiculous which suggests to me that that approach doesn't work.
I'd like criminals to come out of jail and not reoffend, that should be the goal however it's achieved.

Problem with your last sentence as people could then benefit from committing heinous crimes

 

[clint van damme]

Problem with your last sentence as people could then benefit from committing heinous crimes

what do you mean by heinous?
Rape, murder? I'm all in favour of more severe punishments for those crimes.

 

[Grendel]

what do you mean by heinous?
Rape, murder? I'm all in favour of more severe punishments for those crimes.

One of the Bulger killers definitely benefited from doing what he did

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

One of the Bulger killers definitely benefited from doing what he did

He did yep and one threw it back in everyone’s faces

 

[dutchman]

I was actually working near the QPR stadium yesterday and today and some of the areas near there could be mistaken for Damascus.

I know exactly what you mean. Visit Spon End around school closing time (3.00pm) any afternoon and you'll think you're living in a middle-eastern city. (I mean the real Spon End and not that plastic Disneyland 'Medieval' reconstruction).

Last July I had to visit the dentist around that time and at the junction of Windsor St/Upper Spon St and Barras Lane I found myself completely surrounded by mothers in Yashmaks come to collect their kids from Spon Gate primary school.

Walking home from Morrison's through Spon End most evenings I hear more people speaking Arabic than English.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I know exactly what you mean. Visit Spon End around school closing time (3.00pm) any afternoon and you'll think you're living in a middle-eastern city. (I mean the real Spon End and not that plastic Disneyland 'Medieval' reconstruction).

Last July I had to visit the dentist around that time and at the junction of Windsor St/Upper Spon St and Barras Lane I found myself completely surrounded by mothers in Yashmaks come to collect their kids from Spon Gate primary school.

Walking home from Morrison's through Spon End most evenings I hear more people speaking Arabic than English.

I’m glad we value each human life only when it suits. Bloody hell

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

If they move here they abide by the UK laws and lifestyle. It's as simple as that. If I moved to UAE for example or another country I'd expect to abide by their laws.

Bollocks to the gently don't want to offend approach, the piss would be taken when people know they can get away with it.

If somebody wants to get asylum, build a life and a future for them and their kids while working hard then that's great. If they want to milk the system, live a life of crime or be twats then cheerio.

There's immigration sorted.

Absolutely spot on. I think when people kick against the very way of life that has offered them hope and prosperity then they can f@ck off back to wherever they come from. If I visit a church in Italy I cover up because it's what is expected. If I think "sod them, I'll do whatever I like" I shouldn't be there.

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

No you only imply stuff because if you say what you mean it wouldn’t look great

So by saying it’s like Damascus what do you mean? I don’t want to put words in your mouth.

I think London is unique in its embracing of different cultures. Where it’s similar to many large cities is the abject poverty alongside riches beyond the reach of most of us

How are different cultures in developing countries like London I don’t understand explain let’s discuss

Damascus is a particularly bad example as Syria is currently in its nth year of civil war and is a war zone. Is that what you meant?

How does London "embrace" different cultures ? It's had it thrust upon it for generations and still there is much mistrust and segregation where many areas are populated by groups of the same cultural and religious beliefs at the exclusion of others. What's happening with the stabbings in London is to some extent a reflection of this.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

How does London "embrace" different cultures ? It's had it thrust upon it for generations and still there is much mistrust and segregation where many areas are populated by groups of the same cultural and religious beliefs at the exclusion of others. What's happening with the stabbings in London is to some extent a reflection of this.

Do you live there?

Any proof of that?

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

Do you live there?

Any proof of that?

Lived in SW London : Balham, Tooting, Wimbledon for the best part of 10 years. worked in Hammersmith Tower Hamlets and lived in North London for three years prior to this as a student. Do I have proof of what I say or that I lived in London ? Strange question either way.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

What do you mean that there aren’t many different cultures in London? Grenfell and other communities seem to show different races and cultures can function and embrace one another

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

What do you mean that there aren’t many different cultures in London? Grenfell and other communities seem to show different races and cultures can function and embrace one another

Did I say there aren't many different cultures in London ? As many different races, cultures, religions in London as there are on the planet I reckon.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

And doesn’t London embrace them?

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

And doesn’t London embrace them?

Do you mean the "people " of London ? Do the people who live off Kensington High Street actually know where Grenfell Tower is. They probably do now.

 

[Nick]

Caught a bit on ITV this morning. Were on about stop and search and they were saying it should be increased, some campaigners were trying to make out it was racist if they targeted certain communities with stop and search.

Surely if stabbings, victims and people doing it are happening more in certain communities then they should be the ones targeted with stop and search more?

This is the issue that will make things tricky, people will cry racism as soon as anybody tries anything like that.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Caught a bit on ITV this morning. Were on about stop and search and they were saying it should be increased, some campaigners were trying to make out it was racist if they targeted certain communities with stop and search.

Surely if stabbings, victims and people doing it are happening more in certain communities then they should be the ones targeted with stop and search more?

This is the issue that will make things tricky, people will cry racism as soon as anybody tries anything like that.

It needs to be a tool that can be used so there needs to be a reason to stop someone otherwise it could be deemed discriminatory if all the police stop are black men between 16-20 without good reason.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Do you mean the "people " of London ? Do the people who live off Kensington High Street actually know where Grenfell Tower is. They probably do now.

Friends who live in various London boroughs talk of community. You know more than me. It seems that many different cultures coexist

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

Caught a bit on ITV this morning. Were on about stop and search and they were saying it should be increased, some campaigners were trying to make out it was racist if they targeted certain communities with stop and search.

Surely if stabbings, victims and people doing it are happening more in certain communities then they should be the ones targeted with stop and search more?

This is the issue that will make things tricky, people will cry racism as soon as anybody tries anything like that.

You'd think this would be common sense really wouldn't you ? You'd think the police would give Russell Square a miss if the problem was in Tottenham Hale. I watched the debate this morning and although the bloke from the charity who worked with the black community is far more in the know than I am I though he came across as offering nothing new other than we shouldn't do this, we shouldn't do that without offering a solution.

 

[Nick]

It needs to be a tool that can be used so there needs to be a reason to stop someone otherwise it could be deemed discriminatory if all the police stop are black men between 16-20 without good reason.

It depends. If you are in an area with massive amounts of stabbings between black men between 16-20 what are you meant to do?

The whole worry of being racist will only hinder things if police will have to even think about things like that before stopping somebody in a problem area who fits the description / profile.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Professor Green: Knife crime not a black issue

This is where I was coming from

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

It depends. If you are in an area with massive amounts of stabbings between black men between 16-20 what are you meant to do?

The whole worry of being racist will only hinder things if police will have to even think about things like that before stopping somebody in a problem area who fits the description / profile.

Then you stop the appropriate people and defend why.

 

[Nick]

Then you stop the appropriate people and defend why.

I think the fact the police should have to "defend" why they stop and search somebody is one of the issues. I've been stopped and searched back in the day, absolutely no issue at all as I didn't have anything on me that I shouldn't.

It should also be based on the area that is being targetted or patrolled by the police. If they are in a known gang London Estate then it is more than likely a high percentage may be non white. If they are walking the beat in a different city it may be that all of the gangs there are white / asian / insert ethnicity here so of course they should be on the lookout for clamping down on people who fit that profile.

 

[fellatio_Martinez]

Professor Green: Knife crime not a black issue

This is where I was coming from

Typical social justice warrior.

In London, where the major problem is, it is mainly young black men from single parent homes that are involved in these stabbings.

The only short term way to end this is to flood the areas with police. These arseholes never think they'll get caught.

But getting stabbed and bombed is part and parcel of living in a big city so don't expect Sadiq to bother trying to fix it.

 

[clint van damme]

I think the fact the police should have to "defend" why they stop and search somebody is one of the issues. I've been stopped and searched back in the day, absolutely no issue at all as I didn't have anything on me that I shouldn't.

It should also be based on the area that is being targetted or patrolled by the police. If they are in a known gang London Estate then it is more than likely a high percentage may be non white. If they are walking the beat in a different city it may be that all of the gangs there are white / asian / insert ethnicity here so of course they should be on the lookout for clamping down on people who fit that profile.

the problem was the MET did have massive issues with institutionalised racism, (anyone who's read in any detail about the Stephen Lawrence murder will know).
However, that was years ago, I think they need to step it up again, I think it's inevitable that more black lads will get stopped but more black lads are getting killed so if it saves lives it can only be a good thing surely?

 

[Nick]

the problem was the MET did have massive issues with institutionalised racism, (anyone who's read in any detail about the Stephen Lawrence murder will know).
However, that was years ago, I think they need to step it up again, I think it's inevitable that more black lads will get stopped but more black lads are getting killed so if it saves lives it can only be a good thing surely?

Oh I don't disagree there will be particular bad apples within the police the same as there will be in any walk of life.

It can't stop the police carrying out basics like stop and search though that could get knives and people who would use them off the streets.

Need to be able to target the communities where it is rife without the fear of being called racist.

 

[clint van damme]

Oh I don't disagree there will be particular bad apples within the police the same as there will be in any walk of life.

It can't stop the police carrying out basics like stop and search though that could get knives and people who would use them off the streets.

Need to be able to target the communities where it is rife without the fear of being called racist.

I agree. The priority has to be stopping people carrying knives and stabbing each other.

 

[Nick]

I agree. The priority has to be stopping people carrying knives and stabbing each other.

If only it is as simple as that. I don't get why these community leader type people start mouthing off trying to protect them and shout racism. Why not work to help address the issues rather than making it harder?

I'm white, if there is some sort of gang warfare by me with mainly white gangs and it means that every so often the police stop me to see if I am up to no good then so be it. If the police stop me and instead of just saying "yeah go for it, on my way home from work but crack on" I say "you do know that this is mistaken identity and I am going to take your number for harassment. I know my rights" then they are more likely to be dicks with me about it.

It's the same as checking bags going into a football match, I'd much rather that everybody's bags were checked to make sure there isn't a bomb in them. I've never took a bomb to football but I have had my bag checked plenty of times and had no issue with it as it's in the interest of safety.

 

[fellatio_Martinez]

If only it is as simple as that. I don't get why these community leader type people start mouthing off trying to protect them and shout racism. Why not work to help address the issues rather than making it harder?

I'm white, if there is some sort of gang warfare by me with mainly white gangs and it means that every so often the police stop me to see if I am up to no good then so be it. If the police stop me and instead of just saying "yeah go for it, on my way home from work but crack on" I say "you do know that this is mistaken identity and I am going to take your number for harassment. I know my rights" then they are more likely to be dicks with me about it.

It's the same as checking bags going into a football match, I'd much rather that everybody's bags were checked to make sure there isn't a bomb in them. I've never took a bomb to football but I have had my bag checked plenty of times and had no issue with it as it's in the interest of safety.

It's racial profiling and in the case of searches etc it's totally lawful and sensible. The racist card is used to court outrage and is completely blinkered but these community leaders know that it'll make them popular saying such unhelpful nonsense.

My dad is from Northern Ireland and when I was a kid I remember he was always pulled into security at airports to be questioned. He would laugh it off and say he must look like an IRA member and that was the extent of his "trauma"

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Typical social justice warrior.

In London, where the major problem is, it is mainly young black men from single parent homes that are involved in these stabbings.

The only short term way to end this is to flood the areas with police. These arseholes never think they'll get caught.

But getting stabbed and bombed is part and parcel of living in a big city so don't expect Sadiq to bother trying to fix it.

The guy is only making things worse.

As I've said before, we've got to the point that a good virtue signal gets more of a listen than someone actually speaking uncomfortable truths.

 

[clint van damme]

The guy is only making things worse.

As I've said before, we've got to the point that a good virtue signal gets more of a listen than someone actually speaking uncomfortable truths.

Khan has already introduced the methodology used in Glasgow to reduce knife crime where it is classed as a public health issue.
It's had massive success up there, though as I said in another post, it didn't work over night, in fact it took years until it started getting results.

Sadiq Khan to use Glasgow model to end knife crime and clean up London's streets