Nick
Administrator
Glow sticks.
lifeskyblue
Well-Known Member
I despair. Sisu could well be the death knell of our football club. Boddy spelled it out last week of the potential consequences. Just got to hope the FL haven’t got the balls to carry out their threat and that Wasps are in such difficulty they need us no matter what.
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Colin Steins Smile
Well-Known Member
Sisu have been very consistent in using the club as a vehicle for litigation with the aim of realising significant financial gain from the real estate. I find it hard to believe they have any real interest in football.
If they win any future case, I would have no confidence that SISU would provide any external funds to speculate on improving the club.
I feel really sorry for MR, who is building the playing side of the club up, whilst the environment for his work is being poisoned by the constant court cases
If they win any future case, I would have no confidence that SISU would provide any external funds to speculate on improving the club.
I feel really sorry for MR, who is building the playing side of the club up, whilst the environment for his work is being poisoned by the constant court cases
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
then i suggest you read it properly. I clearly said both clubs would be damaged by it. I also think you need to be able to look at things from the other side too.
Rugby world because the prime focus of Wasps commercial set up is rugby (not football or Sky) and the other side of the business (60% of turnover) that is events, conferencing and hospitality. A lot of their partners etc have no interest in football and even less interest in CCFC. Careful briefing of their partners as to what is or will go on will keep a lot of them onside
The point is people have short memories, as do the popular press. The press will no doubt in some quarters point out Wasps would not do new deal. Other members of the press will point their fingers in other directions. Come the end of this season CCFC have no legal right to be there - none - and Wasps do not have to take any action whatsoever to achieve that.... it is a fact. That is neither forcing or kicking CCFC out. The situation is that they do not have to negotiate with anyone, and if they calculate their long term future is best served without CCFC then short term pain such as it is wont bother them, after all they were prepared to give up a whole fan base and local sponsors to come here weren't they.
Consider how it might be played in the CT for instance - are you confident that they will focus on it being Wasps fault because they forced CCFC out because i am not. Do you think they are simply waiting to react to bad press? or are they preparing now?
As for PR spend why will it cost lots of money, the coverage will come to them. There is a huge chunk of Coventry that are not interested in CCFC or only interested on the glory days. Any backlash will be short lived, which is sadly the way of things. The national press will not focus all summer on the demise of CCFC to think they will is ridiculous. There are other sporting events not to mention the ins and outs at premier clubs - CCFC would be big news for a while (weeks) but after that it will be the odd article dwindling to mentions in the body of other articles
As for national stuff the deals etc will be negotiated face to face with the opportunity for Wasps to put their case as to what went on, CCFC & SISU wont be there to have their say. Yes some sponsors might choose not to support but others will not be so worried some wont actually care about CCFC at all. The sponsors also take in to account the events and footfall from other parts of the business to get their image across.
Will Wasps be able to spin to some degree that it was not their choice, especially if they make a last minute offer that is too much for CCFC to pay ................ you tell me because in those circumstances it becomes CCFC that turned them down
Who said Wasps couldnt afford to stay at the Ricoh? Ever consider that there will be some with a free Saturday that look for some sport to watch - yes sadly people can be that fickle
Oh and i would guess that the SISU reaction to no deal would be to go to court to get redress for their losses - so proving some of Wasps point as to whose fault it was
Personally i do not think the going out of business by whoever's hand it is will happen ...... a high price short term deal will be done
no one get this wrong or misunderstand, i am not defending Wasps but you have to think pragmatically as to the possible outcomes without the sky blue glasses on
Nick
Administrator
Don't you think if Wasps said at the last minute we could stay but had to pay shit loads it would then be obvious it was more about money than it was the legal action? The same as when they stopped talks saying it was because of legal action to then start them again and agree a deal while the legal action was still going on?
Wasps started preparing a while ago for bad press.
It can all be spun as SISU's fault because it is their fault ! The other parties involved have acted spitefully and craftily in turn but ultimately one organisation came to Coventry originally and bought our football club for the intention of gaining leverage to a brand new stadium complex. They were out smarted, outfought and beaten hands down in every single courtroom in the land once they had taken that route. They have been appalling business people and jumped in to a sphere of activity they knew nothing about, hence making awful decisions around the club very soon after taking over and their PR with the fans and authorities around the City has been nothing but inept. The astounding thing is as individuals the directors of SISU will have lost very little when this all goes tits up, the losers will be CCFC, its fans and the mugs who originally gave them the money to throw at the club in the first place.
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
When Rangers folded a few players just cancelled their contracts and walked into a new club.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
If I were Wasps, I'd take the excuse to kick us out tbh... bad PR or no bad PR.
Personally I think they're better off without us (from their POV!)
Now, whether their owner cares about Wasps, or whether he used them as a battering ram to get the arena is another matter. If the latter, he probably doesn't care who brings footfall...
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
It is a pitch to the fans Nick. The decision makers on all sides know what is and what isnt. It really doesnt matter if Boddy tells everyone he is quite impotent in this. Do you not think the person with significant control of Otium has some say in the running of the club then?
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
It could be and if so if it happens then it worked not just for this year but for years going forward
I would agree yes they have been preparing
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
However
Updates: Sisu apply to appeal Ricoh Arena row decision
Sisu may be the owners of Coventry City Football Club but they are technically not the ones leading the legal action.
The application to the Supreme Court for permission to appeal has been submitted by Sky Blue Sports & Leisure Ltd (SBSL).
There are two directors - including CCFC chairman Tim Fisher.
The other is Laura Deering, a long-time adviser to Joy Seppala.
Sky Blue Sports and Leisure is the parent company of Otium Entertainment, which deals with the day-to-day running of the football club.
Otium has one director - CCFC chairman Tim Fisher.
Nick
Administrator
The people with the control are SISU. The ones who I have said and the club have said are forcing it.
Do you think the football club has any say at all in the legal action? If Boddy or even Fisher for example rang up Joy now and said "Please stop this". Would she do a massive U turn? You know full well that it wouldn't make an ounce of difference.
There has always been a strange desperation to push things at the club knowing full well it's out of their hands. Even PWKH used to try his best to get it fired up. Maybe it was so that if/when he fucked the club over nobody would say anything because they thought he was getting one over on SISU. Worked a treat then.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
in their shoes it has to be pretty close to doing that NW
Well yes the real objectives is another matter isnt it
lifeskyblue
Well-Known Member
Oldskyblue58 and ashdown spot on.
Sisu came to town to get the club and the ground on the cheap so they could make future profit. They never came to develop a football team.
They got the club for peanuts but messed up big time by destabilising and prevaricating over the ground. Rightly or wrongly Wasps now own the ground and unless we dance to their tune we won’t be invited to the party.
I feel so angry and disillusioned this evening.
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Sisu came to town to get the club and the ground on the cheap so they could make future profit. They never came to develop a football team.
They got the club for peanuts but messed up big time by destabilising and prevaricating over the ground. Rightly or wrongly Wasps now own the ground and unless we dance to their tune we won’t be invited to the party.
I feel so angry and disillusioned this evening.
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Nick
Administrator
Yet SISU are the ones with significant control who what they say goes?
Just proved my point in my last post, thankyou.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
There is a scenario where Wasps are no more, but Richardson owns us. Not sure I'd fancy that particularly, either...
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
so who controls what the club does and who just works for it?
Seppala doesnt just control or force the legal action
Nick
Administrator
Do you think anybody within the club or even Otium have any say over the legal action?
Do you think Fisher, Boddy, Robins, Kitman or JCH have the power to stop it?
higgs
Well-Known Member
From the owners point of view buy going down the legal road we will be homeless and kicked out of the efl and cease to exist so why would they go down that route to eventually end up with nothing?
Why not just leave now and save themselves the legal costs?
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Why not just leave now and save themselves the legal costs?
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Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
Well Fisher & Deering should act in the best interests of SBS&L, are they?
So I would say Seppala is actually a shadow Director, which may have negative consequences for her.
https://www.city.ac.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/133937/Shadow-Director.pdf
SkyBlueCRJ
Well-Known Member
Sorry I don't agree with any of your points whatsoever. I'm not looking at it through sky blue spectacles I'm looking at it from a PR perspective and I just can't see the basis of any your arguments. Wasp's certainly won't be looking at it from your POV either otherwise they would've kicked us out last season if they believed everything would turn out so rosey. I think ultimately you under estimate the power of the press and the cost of getting a message through to them, as well as the potential commercial backlash that Wasps could suffer.
I don't care how it would be played in the CT as I know how it would be played in the CT. It'll blame SISU but as I explained those in the Coventry and Warwickshire region understand the ins and outs of our plight with Wasps because it's been going on for four years now.
Your points seem to be based on the fact that any form of bad PR/publicity would be short lived. But won't that be enough for Wasps to lose a significant amount of revenue? Given their financial situation a poor year could cripple them off the field. Weeks of bad publicity would be horrendous for the club during key months where commercial deals and brokered.
Coventry has never been a Rugby city. Your logic suggests that all football fans will switch to Rugby just because there's no local football club. I can pretty much guarantee that won't happen.
It's well established news that Wasps cannot afford the Ricoh repayments, look through previous news cuttings of the CT.
We'll see how it will play out. But I refuse to believe it will turn out as rosey as you suspect.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
of course they dont but the person who controls and ultimately dictates the actions or all matters in the club does. She set it up this way, the staff all have responsibility to the director and owner in all matters concerning CCFC. That doesnt mean they are all involved in every decision of the company or need to be.
I have staff that work for me they are part of my firm and i couldnt operate without them, if a client doesnt pay then i dont ask them or involve them in any legal action i take to recover but it is still my firm taking the action that they are part of
I have staff that work for me they are part of my firm and i couldnt operate without them, if a client doesnt pay then i dont ask them or involve them in any legal action i take to recover but it is still my firm taking the action that they are part of
Nick
Administrator
Doesn't having significant control mean they have more clout than directors though?
HuckerbyDublinWhelan
Well-Known Member
To be honest, the football league kicking us out will open up a new can of worms for themselves given that CCFC have be given no option to continue trading.
Could play right into SISUs hands
Skyblueweeman
Well-Known Member
You could say the same about Wasps owners. Was/Is their long term abition the rugby club? They're similar in many ways to SISU. Short term punt at success which isn't really working out. At least they have some real estate though which they could sell on for a profit....the lease anyway.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
all those years in finance wasted when it was all so clear in the news cuttings in the CT................ :banghead:
entitled to your opinion will agree to disagree
Skyblueweeman
Well-Known Member
You could look at it from the fact they've not been as succesful as they would've hoped since they've been here (zero trophies) and the crowds, which were already inclusive of many free tickets, have dwindled. They've still not found a new naming partner for the Ricoh and monies are owed on the bond scheme, if I recall correctly.
I don't think their financial situation is as rosy as they'd like....so yes, they might be able to afford to stay at the Ricoh (for now) but unless the Aviva Premiership gets that takeover and they benefit to the tune of £15-20m, one could fairly assume their finances are heading South, thus needing the CCFC rent money to add some stability through rocky waters.
That's how I see it any way.
Nick
Administrator
That's what the statement was saying though wasn't it? That it is being forced and pushed by the shareholders.
So here's the situation if you were a nasty man. You set your company up with a couple of sub companies that you still have control over like a puppet master. If you decide one day you want to take one of your puppets to war (lets say OSB's window cleaning), you could use that name to start legal action against all of the other window cleaning but all of the people there are helpless as you have the overall say.
Should we make everybody be angry at everybody within OSB's window cleaning who have absolutely no say or should we be angry at you?
SkyBlueCRJ
Well-Known Member
Granted that's hardly a reputable source but it's well known throughout Coventry and Warwickshire and among those who have close links to Wasps that they cannot afford the Ricoh repayments. I personally didn't think that was shocking news, especially from a person from a financial background.
As I'm from a PR background I envisage worst case scenarios. But many of the points i've made are what Wasps will be considering when deciding whether to renew our rental agreement or not. They won't be taking the glass half full approach as they can neither handle or afford taking the view that all will be well, regardless of whether it pans out as such.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
It’s simple maths though. What’s the likely impact of bad press? If we’re honest, not a damn lot. How much bad press did Sisu get post Northampton? How much difference did it make?
I really think we are vastly overstating the impact it would have. I vividly remember the same conversations with the same people about the Council letting us go last time (down to the same childish insults thrown at anyone who pointed it out), and look what happened. This idea that because we won’t like it as CCFC fans it’ll have some massive impact is just wrong. You’re talking maybe 5k tops out of a group of stakeholders in the hundreds of thousands. That’s collateral damage.
It’s this thinking that lead to Northampton: the idea that we are more important than we are.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Agree completely. The question is when to time such protests. Do wait until March and see how this pans out? How long until we know if the latest appeal is successful or a failure? Do we wait until that’s done and see what Wasps next move is? Do we start straight away?
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
This too. Echoes of a few years ago.
Marches, protests, petitions, etc do nothing but make the people involved feel useful. It’s not clear cut who is to blame and that alone will blunt any impact.
I know I’m down on this, but it’s exactly the reason I didn’t want us to give up a long tenancy without anywhere to go. All of this was easily foretold before the rent strike and it’s maddening watch it play out while people still cling to the delusions that brought us here.