The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (22 Viewers)

[Grendel]

Oh I can astute and I think you could too. There are good people friends of friends who coiuld earn far more doing wonderful jobs serving their communities. Some of the snp youngsters could change their world for the better in a fair manner

The SNP?

 

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[martcov]

You constantly duck the point. The voters are ordinary people, all you refer back to is a handful of conductors at the top. The question i was posing is how do you appease millions, yes millions of working class folk who will feel mightily let down if the political class toffs, and the I'm doing alright crowd from London and the home counties tell them to stop being stupid , uneducated racists and tow the line once more . Mart you're such a fraud, you're worried about the effect on your business and possible consequences for your daughter being schooled in England . You're just as twisted and selfish as the Brexit leaders you like to slate day and night.

Not true. I explained what is happening in my business. My UK beer is now brewed in Holland and my main Cider in Belgium. My best sellers are Irish. My whiskey comes from Ireland and Scotland, but you can easily get Swiss, German, Swedish, Danish and Japanese whisky here. My daughter is back in Germany and living with a Spanish guy who wants to do his „master electrician“ exam here and then go back to Spain. My daughter has dreams of going to Uni in Madrid. I have dual citizenship and so Brexit will not be bad for me and my family. But, the UK working class will be poorer and have less rights. Totally unselfish if you consider these points.

 

[Otis]

97 labour government was the last one. Corbyn s would try and change it but won’t be given the chance by anyone. I recognise he isn’t prime ministerial though. I also recognise we are a centrist country at heart politically

We have become so. Can't ever see a truly socialist party ever getting into power.

I used to vote Labour on the whole, but lately have gone for the Greens.

 

[Otis]

No regrets voting for 97 Blair government they did so much good

Same here. I don't regret anything in life. It obviously seemed the right thing to do at the time, so I always feel like looking back and regretting things as all rather pointless.

 

[martcov]

Sounds just like the EU now.

No.We‘re leaving which means we must articulate our demands/ wishes. The EU has a rules based system and they are not going to alter it for a non member country. They have no demands, they are answering our demands.

 

[martcov]

It would be better if another vote wouldn't include those who would remain at whatever cost and also remove those who would leave at any cost. Then those of us that are actually trying to work out what would be best for our future would be left. But that would be even more impossible.

Don’t count yourself in that. You are hard core leave. You scour the Internet looking for fault with the EU.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

The SNP?

Yep absolutely. Redistribution of wealth from the Uber rich and those earning in a very loose term the backs of society with no thought to the greater success of the whole.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I mean those who will hold power. The SNP will only have a small say at best.

Yes there are MP's that do good. But I can't list them off the top of my head. I was on about high profile MP's. The career MP's. Not those who became an MP to make a difference to the man on the street.

Fair points but it’s no point sniping or simmering from the sidelines we need to demand more accountability and trust and only that which we are willing to be judged by ourselves

 

[Grendel]

Yep absolutely. Redistribution of wealth from the Uber rich and those earning in a very loose term the backs of society with no thought to the greater success of the whole.

The party that wanted independence even though every economist said it would result in economic oblivion and the party who could not even say what currency they would use the next day if they’d won
and didn’t even care?

Reece Mogg is a liberal compared to those nut jobs

 

[clint van damme]

Same here. I don't regret anything in life. It obviously seemed the right thing to do at the time, so I always feel like looking back and regretting things as all rather pointless.

to be fair, there was nothing in Blairs manifesto to suggest that he was a war monger who was going to set the middle east alight.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

The party that wanted independence even though every economist said it would result in economic oblivion and the party who could not even say what currency they would use the next day if they’d won
and didn’t even care?

Reece Mogg is a liberal compared to those nut jobs

I’m talking individual integrity and people that want to make a difference

 

[clint van damme]

The party that wanted independence even though every economist said it would result in economic oblivion and the party who could not even say what currency they would use the next day if they’d won
and didn’t even care?

Reece Mogg is a liberal compared to those nut jobs

no they didn't. Plenty did, but there are plenty who said the complete opposite.
You can't find many making the case for a no deal Brexit.

 

[Grendel]

to be fair, there was nothing in Blairs manifesto to suggest that he was a war monger who was going to set the middle east alight.

Or that he was going to rape and pillage hard working working class pensions

 

[clint van damme]

Or that he was going to rape and pillage hard working working class pensions

was that Brown or was it Brown on Blairs watch?

 

[SkyblueBazza]

The motorway network on the whole is free here compared to other European countries. I’ve paid all of the tolls you have above but if you think the motorway charges here are comparable to France and Italy then I guess you haven’t driven there very much

Yeah...anything...whatever...just don't go around actually acknowledging, admitting or saying your statement was incorrect though eh?

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[Grendel]

no they didn't. Plenty did, but there are plenty who said the complete opposite.

There really was not. The Scottish government had no commitment they would join the EU (so they’d exit the uk and the EU) and they’d no currency plan.

If Scotland could crash out the EU and the UK and economists believed this would be a benefit then surely they would say the same for the uk as a whole leaving the EU?

 

[clint van damme]

There really was not. The Scottish government had no commitment they would join the EU (so they’d exit the uk and the EU) and they’d no currency plan.

If Scotland could crash out the EU and the UK and economists believed this would be a benefit then surely they would say the same for the uk as a whole leaving the EU?

I don't know the ins and outs of it so haven't really got an opinion either way but it's not true to say every economist said it would result in economic oblivion. There are plenty who make the exact opposite case. Google it, you'll find as many positive as negative articles.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

In the UK you don't have to pay normally unless in an area with good or better public transport. You have the occasional bridge that doesn't cost a lot as long as you remember to pay. And motorway tolls that you can bypass.

Going to Italy I go through several countries to save about €100 each way over the direct journey. Takes about 2 hours longer but is the more scenic route.

To do toll free would about double the journey time. And when driving for a day already........

Yes...but nothing comes for free. Our free movement is paid for out of our contributions to the EU some would argue.

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[Sky Blue Pete]

Yes...but nothing comes for free. Our free movement is paid for out of our contributions to the EU some would argue.

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And vice Versa as astute says. But it’s the normal people that pay. Not unaccountable millionaires who don’t live in the real world. We need a new system the one we have doesn’t allow good people to be involved and make a meaningful difference

 

[Sick Boy]

Yeah...anything...whatever...just don't go around actually acknowledging, admitting or saying your statement was incorrect though eh?

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Considering that the person I was actually having the conversation with has been in agreement with me, it’s just sounds like you’re trying to be condescending as ever and failing miserably.

 

[martcov]

Yes...but nothing comes for free. Our free movement is paid for out of our contributions to the EU some would argue.

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How much is the free movement budget and how is it distributed?

 

[Ashdown]

Not true. I explained what is happening in my business. My UK beer is now brewed in Holland and my main Cider in Belgium. My best sellers are Irish. My whiskey comes from Ireland and Scotland, but you can easily get Swiss, German, Swedish, Danish and Japanese whisky here. My daughter is back in Germany and living with a Spanish guy who wants to do his „master electrician“ exam here and then go back to Spain. My daughter has dreams of going to Uni in Madrid. I have dual citizenship and so Brexit will not be bad for me and my family. But, the UK working class will be poorer and have less rights. Totally unselfish if you consider these points.

Can't blame her for Spain, that's for sure !

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Considering that the person I was actually having the conversation with has been in agreement with me, it’s just sounds like you’re trying to be condescending as ever and failing miserably.

An excerpt from 'Psychology Today'..."what about when a person does push back against the facts, when they simply cannot admit they were wrong in any circumstance? What in their psychological makeup makes it impossible for them to admit they were wrong, even when it is obvious they were? And why does this happen so repetitively — why do they never admit they were wrong?
The answer is related to their ego, their very sense-of-self. Some people have such a fragile ego, such brittle self-esteem, such a weak "psychological constitution," that admitting they made a mistake or that they were wrong is fundamentally too threatening for their egos to tolerate."
You & your habitual 'Like'-er(s) might want to chew that over lol

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[Astute]

I believe you can pay a set fee and get unlimited travel on the Italian motorways, I will investigate to see if it’d be possible for you.

My favourite is to wait until mine is asleep with her head against the window and then open it.

:smuggrin:

My favourite was years ago in a safari park. She was busy looking at animals on her side. The sunroof was open so I had some food in my hand tempting a giraffe. I ended up lowering my hand until the giraffe had its head inside the car. Then I called the wife's name. She turned around to be eye to eye with the giraffe. She absolutely shit herself :woot:

 

[Sick Boy]

An excerpt from 'Psychology Today'..."what about when a person does push back against the facts, when they simply cannot admit they were wrong in any circumstance? What in their psychological makeup makes it impossible for them to admit they were wrong, even when it is obvious they were? And why does this happen so repetitively — why do they never admit they were wrong?
The answer is related to their ego, their very sense-of-self. Some people have such a fragile ego, such brittle self-esteem, such a weak "psychological constitution," that admitting they made a mistake or that they were wrong is fundamentally too threatening for their egos to tolerate."
You & your habitual 'Like'-er(s) might want to chew that over lol

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I’m happy to hold my hands up and admit when ive been wrong and have done multiple times on this forum.

As I said, the person I was actually speaking to has agreed with me.

You’re just a general oddball.

 

[Astute]

was that Brown or was it Brown on Blairs watch?

Brown well before he became PM. His job was to cook the books. He didn't take off just the rich, poor or middle class like normally happens whoever is in. Everyone seemed happy until they realised final salary pensions had been killed off in one go. He made millions poorer overnight. The younger generations lost the chance to have a good pension. And it made the money for Bliar to do the Tory thing. Tax cuts for the rich. Our population exploded but they continued to sell off social housing without building any more.

But at least it paid for the war Bliar took us into that cost us many billions.

 

[martcov]

An excerpt from 'Psychology Today'..."what about when a person does push back against the facts, when they simply cannot admit they were wrong in any circumstance? What in their psychological makeup makes it impossible for them to admit they were wrong, even when it is obvious they were? And why does this happen so repetitively — why do they never admit they were wrong?
The answer is related to their ego, their very sense-of-self. Some people have such a fragile ego, such brittle self-esteem, such a weak "psychological constitution," that admitting they made a mistake or that they were wrong is fundamentally too threatening for their egos to tolerate."
You & your habitual 'Like'-er(s) might want to chew that over lol

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No, 17,4 million people who voted leave are probably trying to work out how to admit they were wrong based on how leave has turned out. ;-)

 

[SkyblueBazza]

I’m happy to hold my hands up and admit when ive been wrong and have done multiple times on this forum.

As I said, the person I was actually speaking to has agreed with me.

You’re just a general oddball.

Mate...all I did was point out that you were wrong in what you stated.

Then you appeared to be trying argue that you weren't, or justify it in some bizarre way.

You could've just said 'Yes, you are right there are some sections/bridges..." or something like that. Instead you seemed to think you were being attacked or ridiculed & went all defensive.

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[Astute]

No, 17,4 million people who voted leave are probably trying to work out how to admit they were wrong based on how leave has turned out. ;-)

You have those who think they were lied to.

You have those who think they were misled.

You have those who think their mistrust in the EU has been proven.

You have those who think the only chance of their future Improving is to leave the EU.

And those who voted remain are not all happy either.

 

[Sick Boy]

Mate...all I did was point out that you were wrong in what you stated.

Then you appeared to be trying argue that you weren't, or justify it in some bizarre way.

You could've just said 'Yes, you are right there are some sections/bridges..." or something like that. Instead you seemed to think you were being attacked or ridiculed & went all defensive.

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No I didn’t, I’m more than aware there are some toll roads and bridges. We were comparing the UK motorway network to other European countries. As I’ve said several times, the poster I was talking to agreed with me and knew what I was getting at.

I don’t feel as though I got defensive at all, I was trying to point out to you that the other poster knew what I was getting at.

 

[clint van damme]

An excerpt from 'Psychology Today'..."what about when a person does push back against the facts, when they simply cannot admit they were wrong in any circumstance? What in their psychological makeup makes it impossible for them to admit they were wrong, even when it is obvious they were? And why does this happen so repetitively — why do they never admit they were wrong?
The answer is related to their ego, their very sense-of-self. Some people have such a fragile ego, such brittle self-esteem, such a weak "psychological constitution," that admitting they made a mistake or that they were wrong is fundamentally too threatening for their egos to tolerate."
You & your habitual 'Like'-er(s) might want to chew that over lol

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You've literally just described yourself.
What do physcologists say about people who are like that but don't realise it?

 

[dutchman]

No, 17,4 million people who voted leave are probably trying to work out how to admit they were wrong based on how leave has turned out. ;-)

Looking at events across the channel they're probably hugely relieved they voted the way they did.

 

[martcov]

Looking at events across the channel they're probably hugely relieved they voted the way they did.

What events? Gilets jaunes protesting about the cost of living? That could come here about homelessness and food banks, or knife crimes or crime in general. Plenty of reasons to kick off here.

 

[Astute]

What events? Gilets jaunes protesting about the cost of living? That could come here about homelessness and food banks, or knife crimes or crime in general. Plenty of reasons to kick off here.

I can see it happening if Brexit doesn't happen. It won't matter if following it through would be a disaster.

But what you have failed to mention is it is the taking away of peoples rights that has caused a lot of the trouble in France. But you tell us constantly that we will lose our rights when we leave the EU.

A bit of consistency would be nice.

 

[skybluetony176]

I can see it happening if Brexit doesn't happen. It won't matter if following it through would be a disaster.

But what you have failed to mention is it is the taking away of peoples rights that has caused a lot of the trouble in France. But you tell us constantly that we will lose our rights when we leave the EU.

A bit of consistency would be nice.

Really? What lost rights are they protesting about?