Nick
Administrator
It's not though is it? If 10000 people said my car was a Ferrari it doesn't make it one.
I'd have to see the situation to see how ccfc it was.
Liquidation (19 Viewers)
- Thread starter mark_ccfc
- Start date
I'd have to see the situation to see how ccfc it was.
mark82
Super Moderator
Not sure why you keep mentioning random clubs in Coventry that have nothing to do with CCFC. We aren't talking protest clubs or other clubs in the city, it's a continuation of CCFC.
Lets be real though. It's highly unlikely to actually come to this.
Nick
Administrator
Because they aren't ccfc either. They didn't have 1987, Jimmy hill, me and my dad when I was a kid.
mark82
Super Moderator
It really is imsulting to those that have been through it. At the end of the day, the club is the community that support it, anything else is transient.
Nick
Administrator
So if every city fan went to watch cov United it makes them ccfc? Not to me it doesn't.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
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Deleted member 5849
Guest
It is.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
How is it insulting? If you look at the websites of the clubs it has happened to they very clearly state it is not the same club.
letsallsingtogether
Well-Known Member
Wasnt that bad used to drink there on a Wednesday when I was at Henley college during my apprenticeship.
Nick
Administrator
Think I went in there once, just as strange as going in the aldermoor.
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Deleted member 5849
Guest
Again, you miss completely...
The fans would say otherwise. The paraphrasing about John Aldridge etc I put up earlier? From fans, and their perspective. Conclusion, after speaking to the fans, was that the continuum is indeed the same club. The literalism is totally irrelevant!
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Nick
Administrator
So if 10000 city fans said that cov United is now ccfc that means it is?Again, you miss completely...
The fans would say otherwise. The paraphrasing about John Aldridge etc I put up earlier? Part of research (currently unpublished) conducted into this very subject. Clubs looked at were Newport, Aldershot, Acrrington, Bradford (Park Avenue), Wimbledon / MK... and two I forget off the top of my head
Conclusion, after speaking to the fans, was that the continuum is indeed the same club. The literalism is totally irrelevant!
I wouldn't need to listen to others, that's the thing. It would be whether it felt like ccfc to me.
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
But did all fans migrate to the new club? If not do they just not matter anymore?Again, you miss completely...
The fans would say otherwise. The paraphrasing about John Aldridge etc I put up earlier? Part of research (currently unpublished) conducted into this very subject. Clubs looked at were Newport, Aldershot, Acrrington, Bradford (Park Avenue), Wimbledon / MK... and two I forget off the top of my head
Conclusion, after speaking to the fans, was that the continuum is indeed the same club. The literalism is totally irrelevant!
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
It's you that is failing to grasp a very simple point. If we are liquidated that is it, the club that was managed by Jimmy Hill, that won the FA Cup no longer exists.Again, you miss completely...
The fans would say otherwise. The paraphrasing about John Aldridge etc I put up earlier? Part of research (currently unpublished) conducted into this very subject. Clubs looked at were Newport, Aldershot, Acrrington, Bradford (Park Avenue), Wimbledon / MK... and two I forget off the top of my head
Conclusion, after speaking to the fans, was that the continuum is indeed the same club. The literalism is totally irrelevant!
Using your logic if the Sky Blue Trust said Coventry United is to be the continuation as they were formed as a protest club and have close links to the trust then Coventry City would now be called United and play in red.
What happen if someone starts AFC Coventry and someone else starts Coventry AFC, which is the continuation of Coventry City?
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Deleted member 5849
Guest
If popular consent were that it was the case, then yep.
Your example is facetious however, as it rips away cultural context, and attempts to forge an identity through heritage. Let's continue the Newport example.
It's not as simple as saying new club, old club. The entity may be new, but the connection is with what has gone before. The fans decided their club is Newport County. Why deny them that fact? To some I'm sure they gave up when they went bust - they'll have also gained new fans since but, that heritage is of vital importance for their identity.
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Deleted member 5849
Guest
Did all fans migrate to Northampton, or when Marlon signed for us, or when Otium Entertainment Group become our legal entity? If not, do they just not matter anymore?
Everyone matters on an individual level but you can't force people to follow a team. If they were to decide to go off and do some gardening instead, and go shopping at Asda on a Saturday afternoon while looking back fondly to the days when Coventry City won the Cup then fine, that's their decision.
Alternatively, why do those who feel that way have any right to deny others tyhe chance to follow Coventry City?
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Deleted member 5849
Guest
We've already been liquidated. That entity no longer exists.
Why people want to deny others the right to follow Coventry City I find very odd indeed.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
If you establish if it is the same club based on the fans continuing to attend then presumably Coventry City ceased to exist when the club moved to Northampton and the fans stopped attending?
Or how about this. There is a split in the fanbase and two clubs are setup, Coventry AFC and AFC Coventry. Both play at the Butts, 5K don't bother with either but each club has 2.5K attending, which club is Coventry City under your rules?
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Deleted member 5849
Guest
What if fish could fly, and cats were dogs?
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
Come on you’ve got to admit it’s mad to compare people leaving a team for various reasons with people not supporting a new team.
Nick
Administrator
If 10000 people told me my dog was a cat does it mean it is?
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Are you being deliberately thick? This has been explained over and over again and is very simple.
The assets that are Coventry City were transferred from one company to another company. The old company was then wound up. Literally nothing else changed. Your season ticket was still valid, we had the same manager, the same players, kits, sponsors and completed our fixtures for the season in the FL.
You are equating that to Coventry City not being able to fulfil next seasons fixtures and losing FL status with the owners then liquidating - the assets that are Coventry City will be gone. The manger, players, all staff would go. Ryton would go, the academy would go, Sky Blues in the Community would go.
How can you keep saying those two events are the same???
Grendel
Well-Known Member
We haven’t. That was a pure technicality - you are starting to sound very obtuse....
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Deleted member 5849
Guest
If Triumph comes out of adversity, then what comes out of despair?
Nick
Administrator
Kawasaki
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Deleted member 5849
Guest
I think you are.
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Deleted member 5849
Guest
The natural assumption if that were the case, would be to assume that Tim Fisher has hacked a few here.
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I_Saw_Shaw_Score
Well-Known Member
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
2012/13 average attendance was 10,906 2013/14 average attendance was 2,287.
That means 80% of the fanbase were no longer attending. Using your logic as the majority of the fans no longer attended Coventry City no longer existed.
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Deleted member 5849
Guest
Look, we've had this argument plenty of times in the past, and it's an utterly stupid one. Nobody has the power to liquidate CCFC bar SISU. The reason we don't have a rival Coventry City at this point in time is because there would be no appetite for it.
However, it's utterly stupid to then say there is no appetite for a Coventry City FC. Nobody, I repeat nobody, has the right to tell somebody else what they can and can't support. Nobody had the right to stop people going to Northampton, or to not watch because the way SISU have run the club has alienated them.
Likewise, nobody has the right to tell people what they would be watching would not be Coventry City, if the cultural conditions are in place.
However, it's utterly stupid to then say there is no appetite for a Coventry City FC. Nobody, I repeat nobody, has the right to tell somebody else what they can and can't support. Nobody had the right to stop people going to Northampton, or to not watch because the way SISU have run the club has alienated them.
Likewise, nobody has the right to tell people what they would be watching would not be Coventry City, if the cultural conditions are in place.
Nick
Administrator
It's not saying people can't support it. It's saying it isn't ccfc.
Thousands go and support Leicester but it doesn't mean it's ccfc.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Nobody is saying they do. What do you think SISU will do if Wasps continue to refuse talks and we lose our place in the FL, keep Coventry City going out of their undying love for the club?
Nobody has said there is no appetite for Coventry City to continue, what has been said is that some people seem to think liquidation is a viable option to enable regime change and that the club would, at worse, be back in the FL within a couple of seasons. That will not happen no matter how much some people wish it.
Nobody has said that either.
Again nobody has said otherwise. However if I go and watch Manchester City playing in Sky Blue and announce to everyone I am watching Coventry City it doesn't make it factually correct.
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Deleted member 5849
Guest
They certainly didn't on the outset of this thread. And there certainly isn't an appetite for that to deserve bringing it into this thread. It's a non-starter.
A lot of the 'facts' on this board = bollocks.