Jayden Stockley (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter fernandopartridge
- Start date
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
Scored some goals with his left foot and I don’t like that so they don’t count either.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
It was a gentleman's agreement, as in they couldn't force us to in the contract, but they could force us to in terms of refusing to sell him to us unless...
(Of course, many might argue that Norwich should have been ruthless and insisted he *had* to play against them!)
vow
Well-Known Member
Oh...yeah, that flukey 25yd free-kick, LOLZ!!11!
You're right, don't count....
skybluegod
Well-Known Member
Will always have a soft spot for him, as he was the first player i saw score live for coventry!
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
tbf, I always thought he got a bit of a hard time from some of us - never thought he was *that* bad myself.
Another forward who did better elsewhere than with us, mind.
SkyBlueCRJ
Well-Known Member
You can’t remove them but stats can be misleading....
fatso
Well-Known Member
skybluegod
Well-Known Member
Yes I agree, because you can have a stat to back an argument. Doesn't mean that what he says is right. By definition Chaplin is a 1 in 4 striker. No arguing with that.
It's a shame penalties don't count. If they did then we wouldn't have lost the first leg of the playoff semi final and we might have gone on to get promoted... Oh wait.
skybluegod
Well-Known Member
5 Goals 3 assists. Is that worth 500,000 right this second? Probably not no. But he's 21, going to get better and imo is going to be seen as more than worth the outlay in a couple years time.
Could we have signed a striker that could hit the ground running and hit double figures by now with that money? Maybe but would probably be at the wrong end of his career, and has no resale value which is not how our transfer policy works.
SkyBlueCRJ
Well-Known Member
There isn’t arguing that but stats are black and white and don’t identify the variables. By that logic you could say if a striker scored 20 penalities in one season that makes him a 20 goal striker. When in reality he isn’t, he’s just a very good penalty taker. I don’t agree with his post as being able to take penalties is a significant factor if makes a good all round striker. E.g. McNulty last season. Plus, they all count don’t they?
I genuinely believe Chaplin be worth his weight in gold in the seasons to come. I’m just stating that fans should take facts with a pinch of salt as I find it’s like looking at a player through rose tinted spectacles rather than seeing the bigger picture and the player’s actual makeup.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
This £500k has become fact despite not being confirmed anywhere.
skybluegod
Well-Known Member
Well yes it is a fact that he would be a 20 goal striker. Because he scored 20 goals. They do all count as you say
SkyBlueCRJ
Well-Known Member
But by definition in football isn’t a 20 goal striker a player who will regularly score in and around 20 goals per season, or has prior success of scoring a signficant amount of goals staggered over the course of his career? If you score 20 penalities in one season but no goals from open play that doesn’t qualify you as a 20 goal striker as it’s pretty likely you won’t replicate such a feat again in your career. Like I said it just makes you a very good penalty taker.
This is why stats aren’t everything. No consideration of the variables.
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SkyBlueCRJ
Well-Known Member
MK Dons had a CB who scored a load of pens a few years back. Think he got into double figures as well. If you’d just look at his stats and nothing else you wouldn’t have any idea what position he played or how he scored the goals!
Terry Gibson's perm
Well-Known Member
Is think he will come good in time, try to forget about the fee and imagine he cost us nothing like Mcnulty and he doesn’t look as bad the fee is the problem. We got good money for McNulty who has done nothing and spent the cash. I don’t think McNulty would be scoring loads in this side either
skybluegod
Well-Known Member
Well no? That is peoples perception, not necessarily the facts. If you are a striker and score 20 goals, it doesn't matter how, then you are a 20 goal striker. It's also pretty likely you won't get 20 goals in a season, so it just seems you are wanting to argue about anything?
SkyBlueCRJ
Well-Known Member
I’m not arguing about anything I’m simply trying to show that stats aren’t everything because they aren’t. If you look at stats and nothing else you have no idea of how the player scored the goals, the type of goal that was scored and the circumstance it was scored in. To suggest that doesn’t matter because 20 goals count as 20 goals just shows no understanding of football whatsoever.
skybluegod
Well-Known Member
Did i say stats mean everything? Did i say to look at nothing but stats? No i simple said that by definition Chaplin is a one in four striker.
To suggest an invalid argument to try and support your point also suggests no football understanding? Also if my team were getting 20 penalties a season, i would suggest that we must have one hell of a tricky player, who would more than make up for the lack of open play goals from your imaginary 20 penalty striker!
GaryMabbuttsLeftKnee
Well-Known Member
To be fair Milivojevic (still a very decent player) got highlgihted much more for Palace last season purely because he scored about 11 goals and I'm pretty sure the vast majority of them are penalties. Ronaldo (obviously one of the best in the world) has scored around 100 penalties in his career, take that tally off and all of a sudden his numbers would start to look a lot more like Suarez's who doesn't really ever take penalties. Whether it's right or wrong, (personally I believe any footballer should be able to bury 85%+ of penalties) it will inflate a players reputation.
SkyBlueCRJ
Well-Known Member
Either you think that stats are anything or you’re the one being argumentative for arguments sake? By literal sense he is a 1 in 4 striker but when has taking the literal sense in anything been right?
How is it an invalid argument. I put forward an improbable scenario to show why stats are simply an oversimplification of the makeup of a player and you seem to be hanging on to the example the same way you seem to hang onto the your view that a goal is a goal regardless of the circumstance. That’s fine if you don’t agree with me but IMO taking a literal view of stats has never cut it for me as it’s only a black and white view of the player. Expanding on an example that was pretty tongue in cheek anyway just invoked senseless rambling and confuses what the discussion was initially about in the first place.
skyblueeyesrevisited
Well-Known Member
Any striker will tell you all goals count. How many times have you seen strikers get a touch on the line to goal bound shot just to claim a goal. Do you not allow these? And what about deflections, ricochets, rebounds when charging down the keeper. Where’s the cut off point
SkyBlueCRJ
Well-Known Member
Exactly I’m not necessarily saying pens are less of a goal than a normal goal as skill is still required to take them and they all count towards the final result. But they do boost a players stats like you say so they can very much distort a fans opinion of a player if you neglect looking at the bigger picture.
skybluegod
Well-Known Member
Exactly, all goals count, you could probably remove at least 10 goals from Mcnulty, if you start digging into it, penalties, deflections, the free kick from clarke in the Grimsby game. His tap in's. Etc etc.
Nazon's goals don't count because they were 20 yard screamers, and that's unlikely to happen every season.
All goals count, just like all wins count,
skybluegod
Well-Known Member
Nobody's not looking at the bigger picture though? Well except fatso maybe, but he's entitled to his opinion
Danceswithhorses
Well-Known Member
I thought this was the Jayden Stockley thread ?
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
If he’s a 1 in 4 striker at 21 in his first season starting at a new club playing in a defensive team with a different partner every week then he’s good enough for me. Only going to get better.
steve82
Well-Known Member
Interesting to read through on peoples thoughts on how water tight stats are or not.
Personally I like to read up on the varying stats of players and try to look into the bigger picture when it comes to strikers on how his goals have come about.
Interesting to read that Conor Chaplin had only taken two penalties for Portsmouth and missed both (in a domestic 90 mins)
Since he’s been here he’s taken 3 now and scored 2 of them.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Personally I like to read up on the varying stats of players and try to look into the bigger picture when it comes to strikers on how his goals have come about.
Interesting to read that Conor Chaplin had only taken two penalties for Portsmouth and missed both (in a domestic 90 mins)
Since he’s been here he’s taken 3 now and scored 2 of them.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
steve82
Well-Known Member
SkyBlueCRJ
Well-Known Member
I don’t agree with Fatso either as he’s creating a scenario that’s essentially fabricated. His view is based on the idea that removing pens/free kick from Chaplins record exposes him as a poor player when it doesn’t, as like I said skill is required to take them and they still count towards the final result - which is the most important thing to us as fans. By that logic Messi isnt the greatest player in the world because he’s scored so many free kicks and pens.
He probably could’ve worded his point better though as whilst I don’t agree with his point I understand the premise - hence why I’m pressing my point of why stats aren’t everything. Going back to Chaplin, it’s great for both club and player if he buries them but free kicks and pens aren’t going to come around that frequently and given his goal scoring record from open play already this season, probability suggests that there’s a risk that he won’t score that many from open play during the second half of this season. This is why I took issue with your initial post that was so heavily centred on Chaplins stats as over the course of the season his ratio could very well change - potentially for the worse if you look at his ratio of game to goals from open play. But that’s only what probability suggests because you simply can’t predict what’s going to happen in football. McNulty is a great case in point for that because although most logical fans had faith he score a fair few goals I don’t think anyone expected him to score as many as he did, especially during the latter half of the season.
