The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (39 Viewers)

[Astute]

Are you saying the EU should interfere more in sovereign countries?

When they are breaking worldwide agreements and killing people yes. This is beside Germany breaking the rules and regulations that everyone else has to keep to. But as you are German....Or more or less German.... It doesn't surprise me how you try and defend everyone involved.

 

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[martcov]

Shall we go back to dieselgate? As in when the EU knew they were breaking all rules and regulations as well as killing countless people with the pollution?

Genius you are not.

I have nothing to do with Dieselgate.

 

[Astute]

His wording is right.

So you said his wording is wring but now you say his wording is right......

Shows you can't remember a lot of the rubbish you come out with.

 

[Astute]

I have nothing to do with Dieselgate.

Yet you have always defended everyone involved. Now you say that the EU did the right thing by not stopping German car makers from killing people.

 

[martcov]

When they are breaking worldwide agreements and killing people yes. This is beside Germany breaking the rules and regulations that everyone else has to keep to. But as you are German....Or more or less German.... It doesn't surprise me how you try and defend everyone involved.

They being who? Germany is very hot on Diesel at the moment. A group of lung doctors has now said that the whole thing is bollocks. Who knows what is going on?

 

[martcov]

Yet you have always defended everyone involved. Now you say that the EU did the right thing by not stopping German car makers from killing people.

No. I didn’t. Making things up again.

 

[martcov]

So you said his wording is wring but now you say his wording is right......

Shows you can't remember a lot of the rubbish you come out with.

Where did I say that? Making things up again.

 

[Astute]

So, now it is the EU‘s fault for not enforcing pesky regulations? Let’s leave that will solve that.

Then you say

No. I didn’t. Making things up again.

 

[Astute]

Where did I say that? Making things up again.

Where did you say what? It is all there for everyone to see.

 

[Astute]

They being who? Germany is very hot on Diesel at the moment. A group of lung doctors has now said that the whole thing is bollocks. Who knows what is going on?

What lung doctors is that? Some German ones I suppose.

 

[martcov]

What lung doctors is that? Some German ones I suppose.

Yes.

 

[martcov]

Where did you say what? It is all there for everyone to see.

Good. Show me. It must be easy if everyone apart from me can see it.

 

[martcov]

Then you say

Lost me...

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

….says Donald Tusk.
Hahahahah , He thinks Liam Neeson is getting too much attention.
I'll be in the queue along with 17 million others for this "special" bit.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I think they have got off Scot free and they won’t pay the price it will be vulnerable people up and down the country

 

[skybluetony176]

I think they have got off Scot free and they won’t pay the price it will be vulnerable people up and down the country

Rees Mogg, Boris ect and their backers have played the plebs brilliantly and they’ll be laughing at them/us all the way to the bank.

 

[dancers lance]

„Tusk turns up the heat

He says there is a "special place in hell for those who promoted Brexit without any plan for how to carry it."“

Quite right.

It's a very odd statement, obviously preplanned to coincide with May's Ireland jaunt hoping to hit an Irish nerve due to their penchant for all things godly, very strange.

 

[Philosoraptor]

I'm just waiting to be called 'populist' again. It's a shambles that successive U.K. Governments have fleeted away our Soverignty to unelected representatives that are ready to label anyone who doesn't agree with their views as populist.

I do find it to be so derogative.

 

[dancers lance]

I'm just waiting to be called 'populist' again. It's a shambles that successive U.K. Governments have fleeted away our Soverignty to unelected representatives that are ready to label anyone who doesn't agree with their views as populist.

I do find it to be so derogative.

That sounds like something a populist would say, you populist :kiss:

 

[Ashdown]

My word our Astute has given MartGermany a hell of a spanking today !!

 

[martcov]

I'm just waiting to be called 'populist' again. It's a shambles that successive U.K. Governments have fleeted away our Soverignty to unelected representatives that are ready to label anyone who doesn't agree with their views as populist.

I do find it to be so derogative.

Oh really? Tusk was elected as president of the council by elected representatives of 500 million people. What he said is totally right. Even leavers should accept that, unless they are of the ones pushing Brexit without a plan.

 

[martcov]

My word our Astute has given MartGermany a hell of a spanking today !!

No he hasn’t. He has got everything wrong as usual. He made a couple of things up as usual, but failed to deliver proof as usual. Everything as usual.

 

[Philosoraptor]

Oh really? Tusk was elected as president of the council by elected representatives of 500 million people. What he said is totally right. Even leavers should accept that, unless they are of the ones pushing Brexit without a plan.

Do you not see any democratic deficit within the EU?

 

[dutchman]

Well so far all we have is project fear and mass scaremongering from the metropolitan elite.........It's not really done anything to Britain either way as yet !................

But Martcov wouldn't know that as a) he doesn't live here and b) he believes everything the German media tell him.

 

[dutchman]

Media bias? You have the 80% of the UK press which is owned by billionaire non residents on your side and parts of the BBC.

The UK press and BBC are overwhelmingly pro-EU. If you lived here you would know that.

 

[Astute]

Oh really? Tusk was elected as president of the council by elected representatives of 500 million people. What he said is totally right. Even leavers should accept that, unless they are of the ones pushing Brexit without a plan.

So an ex football hooligan who was president of his own country and overlooked a scam that robbed countless people of their life savings. And his son worked for the scam artists. But it is OK for him to say about people going to hell because of Brexit?

Yeah OK. I suppose he did well on his planned attack.

So much for getting around a table and talking.

The EU seriously needs to reform. And getting rid of idiots like Tusk should be one of the top priorities.

 

[dutchman]

Cut the crap and tell me whether Brexit was pushed by people who didn’t have a plan how to carry it out or not.

It was the job of Cameron, Osborne, Carney, etc., to plan for Brexit, not the people pushing for it. They failed to do their job and still are.

 

[Astute]

No he hasn’t. He has got everything wrong as usual. He made a couple of things up as usual, but failed to deliver proof as usual. Everything as usual.

You are a joke.

It is all there in black and white. You said it was wrong for Tusk to say what he did. Then you said it was a good thing. You tried to deny that the EU let's Germany off with breaches of the rules and regulations. But you can't deny what happened with dieselgate. Yet you now try to make out that lung specialists say it is all bullshit....... But forget to add any proof.


Or would you like to point out where I have been wrong?

Yes I am an idiot. I looked at the diatribe you constantly come out with.

 

[Astute]

It was the job of Cameron, Osborne, Carney, etc., to plan for Brexit, not the people pushing for it. They failed to do their job and still are.

And there is the problem. We had Tories that don't have a clue what it is like to be on your arse in life thinking everything is great. They only saw the benefits from being in the EU. So they thought it would be an easy vote winner to offer the UKIP voters a referendum if they voted Tory. Nobody would vote leave would they?

Look at how many deniers we have on here. They refuse to acknowledge the bad in the EU. Yes we would be better off staying in the EU. But not everyone is better off.

Look at the latest statistics from the last couple of years. The French population is seen as continuing to decline. The German population is seen to continue to flatline or even go down by millions. But by 2050 the UK population is seen as continuing to grow at a pace that by 2050 we would have the largest population in Europe. When will it end?

UK to have biggest population in Europe within a generation

UK population to be the largest in Europe by 2050, driven by immigration and an ageing population

In the short term it is good for the economy. But what about long term when we end up with millions more older people that needs looking after? Or what about the millions more cars on the already gridlocked roads? We are a small island. The toxins are concentrated. We are not a massive country like Germany or France.

So why do so many want to come to the UK and not Germany?


And the 500,000,000 in the EU is a big number over the 28 countries. But the UK is over 13% of this total. Yes every 1 in 8 people in the EU now lives in the UK. But we are only the eighth largest country in land mass.

But when you put it down to England the land mass is much smaller yet the population doesn't go down a massive amount. Yet it is England that most want to move to.

But yeah it should continue some say.

 

[martcov]

I'm just waiting to be called 'populist' again. It's a shambles that successive U.K. Governments have fleeted away our Soverignty to unelected representatives that are ready to label anyone who doesn't agree with their views as populist.

I do find it to be so derogative.

Populists offer simple answers for complex questions. They can be left wing, but at the moment the loudest ones are right wing. we haven’t lost our sovereignty. We share some of it as part of our FTA membership of the CU and SM to comply with EU rules. We went to war in Iraq and Afghanistan of our accord and we triggered article 50. no one is stopping us leaving with no deal. Parliament is sovereign. It is a red herring to claim we are not a sovereign state or that we don’t pass our own laws.

 

[martcov]

You are a joke.

It is all there in black and white. You said it was wrong for Tusk to say what he did. Then you said it was a good thing. You tried to deny that the EU let's Germany off with breaches of the rules and regulations. But you can't deny what happened with dieselgate. Yet you now try to make out that lung specialists say it is all bullshit....... But forget to add any proof.


Or would you like to point out where I have been wrong?

Yes I am an idiot. I looked at the diatribe you constantly come out with.

1. I didn’t say Tusk was wrong.

2. You said Germany was getting away with looking after it’s own businesses in a proposal that has only just been put forward and is limited to certain businesses and certain conditions which you are not aware of. Germany also wants the EU rules changed on international cartel law. They have to get the EU to agree to that for which they need support of others in the EU. Normal discussion, and seems sensible.

3. Germany is in trouble with the EU over Diesel. The complaint is that the EU was slow to act. Yes it seems so. Not a reason for leaving the EU though.

 

[martcov]

And there is the problem. We had Tories that don't have a clue what it is like to be on your arse in life thinking everything is great. They only saw the benefits from being in the EU. So they thought it would be an easy vote winner to offer the UKIP voters a referendum if they voted Tory. Nobody would vote leave would they?

Look at how many deniers we have on here. They refuse to acknowledge the bad in the EU. Yes we would be better off staying in the EU. But not everyone is better off.

Look at the latest statistics from the last couple of years. The French population is seen as continuing to decline. The German population is seen to continue to flatline or even go down by millions. But by 2050 the UK population is seen as continuing to grow at a pace that by 2050 we would have the largest population in Europe. When will it end?

UK to have biggest population in Europe within a generation

UK population to be the largest in Europe by 2050, driven by immigration and an ageing population

In the short term it is good for the economy. But what about long term when we end up with millions more older people that needs looking after? Or what about the millions more cars on the already gridlocked roads? We are a small island. The toxins are concentrated. We are not a massive country like Germany or France.

So why do so many want to come to the UK and not Germany?


And the 500,000,000 in the EU is a big number over the 28 countries. But the UK is over 13% of this total. Yes every 1 in 8 people in the EU now lives in the UK. But we are only the eighth largest country in land mass.

But when you put it down to England the land mass is much smaller yet the population doesn't go down a massive amount. Yet it is England that most want to move to.

But yeah it should continue some say.

So. It’s all about FOM. Which you deny is your hobby horse.

Who refuses to see bad in the EU?

You are frightened by immigration. I think EU migration will slow as the Eastern European countries catch up. Net EU Immigration is declining already, but our population is getting older on average and we need migration. Non EU migration is replacing EU migration so I don’t know how you are winning on that by leaving. The figures taken in the articles were from 2015 at a peak in EU migration. 500000 are not going to come to the UK every year even if it is a big number.

What makes you think that Germany doesn’t have immigration? I thought we lived under mad Merkel who has invited the world to Germany?

You are assuming that EU migration continues at the present ( 2015 ) rate and that EU citizens will not go home when they are older. Non EU are less likely to go home than EU because of geography and possibly health care.

 

[dutchman]

3. Germany is in trouble with the EU over Diesel. The complaint is that the EU was slow to act. Yes it seems so. Not a reason for leaving the EU though.

Yes, I can see how it would be difficult for Germany to leave the German Empire. Can't disagree with you there.

 

[martcov]

Do you not see any democratic deficit within the EU?

No more, if not less, than in the UK. Tusk is spokesman for the European Council. He doesn’t rule the EU. The Council and the Parliament hold the power. The council are all elected heads of state and ministers. Tusk was elected by the EU council to represent them. Juncker was chosen by the party with the highest share of the EU parliament vote in 2014, and put forward by them to the Council and voted 26:2 as president of the EC, his appointment was then confirmed by the EU parliament. He also doesn’t rule the EU. His period ends shortly and his party group have nominated Weber to take over. Weber has to go through the confirmation process. We don’t know yet if his party will get the most votes in May, so someone else could be chosen.

The Council of the European Union - Consilium

What specific aspect do you refer to as a democratic deficit?

The council is probably the least democratic in it’s part in the decision making as we don’t know all of what our elected heads of states do at their regular meetings. But the council is composed of elected heads of states or governments. In our case, May. So it has democratic legitimacy. The EU parliament has elected MEPs. The commission is appointed by elected representatives and proposes laws which can be amended, passed or rejected by parliament or council.

In the UK, the sovereign and the HOL have no democratic legitimacy. Lords are appointed without a time limit. That doesn’t exist in the EC, Parliament or Council.

 

[martcov]

Yes, I can see how it would be difficult for Germany to leave the German Empire. Can't disagree with you there.

I thought we may have gotten over infantile remarks. Apparently not.

Germany isn’t leaving the EU, we are. How’s that panning out? All going to plan? Oops, any news of a plan for leaving being made and agreed by the UK government?