Shamima Begum Not Allowed Back. (8 Viewers)

[Sky Blue Pete]

Does that just apply to their children who weren't born here? I thought being born in a country gave automatic citizenship? Otherwise that could potentially leave lots of people stateless, which is also illegal under international law I thought? Which takes precedence?

Legislation is quite clear on this. The child of someone not a British Citizen at birth does not automatically receive British Citizenship at birth. If given British Citizenship, they must act within British Law and in a manner that is conducive to the standards as required in the community.

As the child of immigrants she did not and does not have the automatic British Citizenship you and I have. It's the law.

 

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[skybluetony176]

The way I read it she already had dual-nationality. If it's just that she could have it, then I can potentially see her winning an appeal.

Apparently she qualifies through parentage but doesn’t have it, has never applied for it and never been to Bangladesh in her life. That’s what I read anyway.

 

[eastwoodsdustman]

As I said 5 minutes ago what crime did she commit in the UK?

Leave her where she is to rot.

They’ll pin the supporting of a terrorist organisation on her won't they? Let’s hope it doesn’t get to that though.

 

[skybluetony176]

How do you guarantee that?

That is the other point. Is it better to have her here facing punishment or leave her to recirculate into the world of Islamic extremists to act as a recruiter, fund raiser etc for their cause?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

That is the other point. Is it better to have her here facing punishment or leave her to recirculate into the world of Islamic extremists to act as a recruiter, fund raiser etc for their cause?

Yep we believe in the rule of law not the mob

 

[tommydazzle]

It’s a perverse decision based on vengeance. Long live Great Britain paragon of the Christian virtues of you made your bed now lie in it. Which part of Christian doctrine is that one I wonder??

Plenty of vengeance in the bible.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Plenty of vengeance in the bible.

Yep of course and you know the answer is that Jesus is the image of the invisible god.

 

[tommydazzle]

Yep of course and you know the answer is that Jesus is the image of the invisible god.

Gobbledygook

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Gobbledygook

So you think this Christian nation knows nothing of mercy and compassion and love? Ok

 

[hill83]

I’m Captain Leftie of Leftania. But this bint, who wilfully joined an organisation who wouldn’t hesitate to instantly kill my entire family, can absolutely fuck off.

Loads of these pricks have come back. Served their time and are now out. Pointless.

 

[tommydazzle]

I'm not sure I call us a Christian nation, however I agree that Christianity has had much of its muscularity reduced by enlightenment values of reason, compassion and human decency. Thank goodness for a secular society and the increase in rationality. Maybe you'll come to realise that you don't need myths to live a fulfilling and compassionate life.

 

[Grendel]

She should face justice why are we even letting her off!

Most legal experts conclude there is no evidence of a crime so what crime?

 

[Grendel]

What I’m amazed at it the liberals on here who want to invent a crime and convict her of an invented crime without a trial

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I'm not sure I call us a Christian nation, however I agree that Christianity has had much of its muscularity reduced by enlightenment values of reason, compassion and human decency. Thank goodness for a secular society and the increase in rationality. Maybe you'll come to realise that you don't need myths to live a fulfilling and compassionate life.

I do realise that but choose to live a life following jesus

 

[fernandopartridge]

She'll be given the right to live here while she appeals and might even vanish into the community

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Most legal experts conclude there is no evidence of a crime so what crime?

What’s your problem with her returning then?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

What I’m amazed at it the liberals on here who want to invent a crime and convict her of an invented crime without a trial

Huh you’re not making any sense now

 

[skybluetony176]

Most legal experts conclude there is no evidence of a crime so what crime?

So you’re saying that she should be allowed back then?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Just watching news and there are 12 other British women at the camp where this woman is

 

[mark82]

I’m Captain Leftie of Leftania. But this bint, who wilfully joined an organisation who wouldn’t hesitate to instantly kill my entire family, can absolutely fuck off.

Loads of these pricks have come back. Served their time and are now out. Pointless.

Yep, can't disagree to an extent. If we could only hand out a soft sentence then maybe best to keep her at arm's length .

 

[mark82]

What I’m amazed at it the liberals on here who want to invent a crime and convict her of an invented crime without a trial

Senior counter-terrorism officials in both the Met Police and MI6 have both come out and said she could be arrested on arrival, investigated and potentially charged (obviously pending outcome of any investigation).

To be clear, I don't want her or any like her on our streets. If running off to join a terrorist group that has killed so many in Syria and abroad isn't a crime, it damn well should be.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Legislation is quite clear on this. The child of someone not a British Citizen at birth does not automatically receive British Citizenship at birth. If given British Citizenship, they must act within British Law and in a manner that is conducive to the standards as required in the community.

As the child of immigrants she did not and does not have the automatic British Citizenship you and I have. It's the law.

But that legislation would mean potentially millions upon millions of people wouldn't have a state. Not an automatic citizen of the country you're born in. Not an automatic citizen of the countr(y/ies) your parent were born in either. So not a citizen anywhere.

Essentially what you're saying is that legally we do have a right to revoke her citizenship and make her stateless due to her actions of joining a terrorist organisation? That seems perfectly fair to me (I think it'd be fair to revoke anyones citizenship on such grounds, even if you've got parentage going back centuries) but I thought that the UN said that to do so you had to believe said person wouldn't be left stateless?

Are we using the argument that we 'believe' this girl has Bangladeshi citizenship to fulfil this criteria, even if she doesn't?

All I can see happening here is an incredibly long and costly court case.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

But that legislation would mean potentially millions upon millions of people wouldn't have a state. Not an automatic citizen of the country you're born in. Not an automatic citizen of the countr(y/ies) your parent were born in either. So not a citizen anywhere.

Essentially what you're saying is that legally we do have a right to revoke her citizenship and make her stateless due to her actions of joining a terrorist organisation? That seems perfectly fair to me (I think it'd be fair to revoke anyones citizenship on such grounds, even if you've got parentage going back centuries) but I thought that the UN said that to do so you had to believe said person wouldn't be left stateless?

Are we using the argument that we 'believe' this girl has Bangladeshi citizenship to fulfil this criteria, even if she doesn't?

All I can see happening here is an incredibly long and costly court case.

It was a friend who is trained as a lawyer making the point I’m not sure of the answer to your question sorry

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I'm not sure I call us a Christian nation, however I agree that Christianity has had much of its muscularity reduced by enlightenment values of reason, compassion and human decency. Thank goodness for a secular society and the increase in rationality. Maybe you'll come to realise that you don't need myths to live a fulfilling and compassionate life.

I agree. For those who go on about 'Christian values' it's actually scientific reasoning/proof tempering the worst of these values down that has made it more forgiving (but there is still a lot of prejudice in Christianity). Before science Christianity was extremely violent and unforgiving (as were/are other religions) and Christian values can just as easily be interpreted as Jewish/Islamic values given how closely related all three religions are.

What really gets on my nerves is when someone religious says you can't have morals without faith, when the complete opposite is more likely to be true. You're doing things because your religion says so in order to get into heaven etc - you're doing what you're told and following an order, not making a moral decision.

However an atheist that decides to care about their fellow human beings (or the wider environment) without any belief in a reward/punishment and that this is the only life you have is totally making a moral decision to do so. They could just as easily chose to exploit everyone else for their own benefit, but they choose not to.

 

[Astute]

Religion. The cause of most deaths in this world after famine. And a lot of famine is caused by the wars caused by religion.

 

[pastythegreat]

I'll admit to doing some stupid things as a teenager but running off to another country to join a terror organisation wasn't one of them.

Like this

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[Sky Blue Pete]

I agree. For those who go on about 'Christian values' it's actually scientific reasoning/proof tempering the worst of these values down that has made it more forgiving (but there is still a lot of prejudice in Christianity). Before science Christianity was extremely violent and unforgiving (as were/are other religions) and Christian values can just as easily be interpreted as Jewish/Islamic values given how closely related all three religions are.

What really gets on my nerves is when someone religious says you can't have morals without faith, when the complete opposite is more likely to be true. You're doing things because your religion says so in order to get into heaven etc - you're doing what you're told and following an order, not making a moral decision.

However an atheist that decides to care about their fellow human beings (or the wider environment) without any belief in a reward/punishment and that this is the only life you have is totally making a moral decision to do so. They could just as easily chose to exploit everyone else for their own benefit, but they choose not to.

Completely agree. Would never say a moral life isn’t possible as an atheist or a moral life is always lived by someone with faith.

 

[Nick]

She'll be given the right to live here while she appeals and might even vanish into the community

Yeah can see that happening, while there's a big fuss act all tough.

She could probably get back in easy enough anyway when the attention is off and nobody would really know.

 

[Astute]

Yeah can see that happening, while there's a big fuss act all tough.

She could probably get back in easy enough anyway when the attention is off and nobody would really know.

I'll get her a dinghy to come back in. Then wait half way with some darts.

 

[shmmeee]

Why should I pay for her to pay. She can pay for her crimes in the shithole she left for.
You know the saying, "You've made your bed"

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Why should Syrians pay to clean up our mess?

 

[shmmeee]

Find it astounding that people can talk about the Rotherham girls of the same age being groomed and no one sane says “they knew what they were doing”. But the exact same thing with this girl and it’s “fuck her she knew what was what”. The hypocrisy is ridiculous.

She’s our mess. She’s a UK citizen. You can’t just wash your hands of people and leave them to war torn countries to look after.

String her up, lock her away, throw cabbages at her for life if you want. But the attitudes here are disgraceful IMO, both from a child protection and global politics standpoint.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Find it astounding that people can talk about the Rotherham girls of the same age being groomed and no one sane says “they knew what they were doing”. But the exact same thing with this girl and it’s “fuck her she knew what was what”.

Yeah. tbf this wasn't my first reaction, especially with a lack of any kind of remorse but, thinking about it, it's a perfectly fair point to make.

Listening to her, she doesn't sound all there (in the nicest possible sense!). It's a troubling case on many, many levels.

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

Find it astounding that people can talk about the Rotherham girls of the same age being groomed and no one sane says “they knew what they were doing”. But the exact same thing with this girl and it’s “fuck her she knew what was what”. The hypocrisy is ridiculous.

She’s our mess. She’s a UK citizen. You can’t just wash your hands of people and leave them to war torn countries to look after.

String her up, lock her away, throw cabbages at her for life if you want. But the attitudes here are disgraceful IMO, both from a child protection and global politics standpoint.

Was a uk citizen, she has now said she may go to Holland, if she gets back she should be allowed out tagged and on bail of a million pounds, I am assuming her family are getting legal aid which should be removed.

People are worried about children their own and not this creature who is no longer a child.

 

[ccfc92]

Find it astounding that people can talk about the Rotherham girls of the same age being groomed and no one sane says “they knew what they were doing”. But the exact same thing with this girl and it’s “fuck her she knew what was what”. The hypocrisy is ridiculous.

She’s our mess. She’s a UK citizen. You can’t just wash your hands of people and leave them to war torn countries to look after.

String her up, lock her away, throw cabbages at her for life if you want. But the attitudes here are disgraceful IMO, both from a child protection and global politics standpoint.

Did the Rotherham girls cause harm to other people? They were lured by people with alcohol, drugs and cars by people in their neighbourhood they got to know over time, then sexually abused by numerous people once they were trapped in this circle, were they not? I don't see how they can be compared?

This girl chose to leave the country on her own free will, with 2 friends, to support a terrorist organisation. She may not have physically caused harm to others but I'm sure if asked to, she would have obeyed.

To be honest I am on the fence about her coming back. I would prefer she stayed in Syria with her child taken from her and given to a loving family.

However, if brought back she could provide useful information and intelligence. But at a cost to the taxpayer.

 

[ccfchoi87]

Odd that there's one from America and Canada both trying the same thing at the same time.