Shamima Begum Not Allowed Back. (12 Viewers)

[Terry Gibson's perm]

"She is a victim at 15 although responsible criminally for her actions of course as the age of criminality is 12 in the U.K. apart from when we decide its 10 for the Bulger pair"

That's a hell of a leap. Whatever the arguments for and against this one, surely nobody has any sympathy for that pair of c*nts! 10 or not the things they did was beyond taking a kid and killing him. Beyond evil and 100% knew exactly what they were doing.

Still costing us a fortune as well just like this woman will if she is allowed to come here.

 

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[Grendel]

To be honest I do not agree with the principal of allowing citizenship to be revoked. What I am against is assisting the individual to return. Rovoking of citizen rights in their sovereign state is the stuff of Stalin. Its the same reason why we should all oppose the European Arrest Warrant - an appalling agreement in which citizens with zero evidence against them can be carted off to a foreign land with no legal right to prevent

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

"She is a victim at 15 although responsible criminally for her actions of course as the age of criminality is 12 in the U.K. apart from when we decide its 10 for the Bulger pair"

That's a hell of a leap. Whatever the arguments for and against this one, surely nobody has any sympathy for that pair of c*nts! 10 or not the things they did was beyond taking a kid and killing him. Beyond evil and 100% knew exactly what they were doing.

What’s your expertise in criminal law and childhood awareness?
In many countries they wouldn’t have been improsoned

 

[CJ_covblaze]

Corbyn has now said she should be allowed back in. I didn’t think it was possible for me to dislike like him more. I was wrong.

Jeremy Corbyn says Shamima Begum 'should be allowed back to Britain' for 'support she needs' — The Telegraph

 

[rob9872]

What’s your expertise in criminal law and childhood awareness?
In many countries they wouldn’t have been improsoned

Absolutely zero expertise, but I think I've lived enough years and seen enough to know right from wrong. I did at 10 and I'm sure most here do. If you want need it highlighting, then probably best that you have a word with Jamie's parents and see what they've been through. I imagine they know a lot more about the case than you do and the interviews with them show there is only one side deserving of anything sympathy and certainly not Venables or Thompson.

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

Corbyn has now said she should be allowed back in. I didn’t think it was possible for me to dislike like him more. I was wrong.

Jeremy Corbyn says Shamima Begum 'should be allowed back to Britain' for 'support she needs' — The Telegraph

It’s like he doesn’t want to be elected, he is so out of touch with the British people

 

[Nick]

It’s like he doesn’t want to be elected, he is so out of touch with the British people

Hasn't he got a really old purple Astra as well?

 

[clint van damme]

It’s like he doesn’t want to be elected, he is so out of touch with the British people

so you like your politicians to say things that endear them to the masses?
I'd prefer politicians to be honest even if it means I don't agree with them.

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

so you like your politicians to say things that endear them to the masses?
I'd prefer politicians to be honest even if it means I don't agree with them.

I would like him to side with what is right and her return isn’t right, I would like Labour to be elected but with him as leader we have no chance

 

[clint van damme]

I would like him to side with what is right and her return isn’t right, I would like Labour to be elected but with him as leader we have no chance

but if his opinion is it is right then he should say so, not say what he thinks people want to here.
I personally don't agree with him in this instance.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

To be honest I do not agree with the principal of allowing citizenship to be revoked. What I am against is assisting the individual to return

If you're not revoking citizenship, isn't it better to manage her return, so you know where she is, then risk her slipping in unnoticed?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Absolutely zero expertise, but I think I've lived enough years and seen enough to know right from wrong. I did at 10 and I'm sure most here do. If you want need it highlighting, then probably best that you have a word with Jamie's parents and see what they've been through. I imagine they know a lot more about the case than you do and the interviews with them show there is only one side deserving of anything sympathy and certainly not Venables or Thompson.

Bloody hell the point was about age of criminality. There’s no saying what they did was ok and they need sympathy. You only need a rudimentary understanding of the human brain to understand that we don’t make decisions as 10 year olds knowing what we do as 20 year olds. One main way brains don’t mature is in understanding that there are eternal consequences to actions you take. You can read about it. Not everything is black and white it’s nuanced. The pain and suffering are real but around the world I assure you venables and Thompson would have been treated as much the victim as James Bulger. There are cases in Norway and Finland you can read about. 15 year olds are supposed to get protection from content and adults that would abuse their position of trust to take advantage of them. That’s the link here. As a 15 year old the girl has been manipulated, why at 19 is she not being treated as a victim? I really don’t understand

 

[chiefdave]

It’s like he doesn’t want to be elected, he is so out of touch with the British people

Not surprisingly a couple of quotes have been cherrypicked to suit the article they wanted to write.

While I wouldn't allow her back in the country at all and therefore don't agree with Corbyn's stance he has not come out in support of her. He has said we should follow international law, question her and punish and / or support her accordingly. Which is consistent with his objections at the time the home office was given the powers to act in the way they currently are.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Bloody hell the point was about age of criminality. There’s no saying what they did was ok and they need sympathy. You only need a rudimentary understanding of the human brain to understand that we don’t make decisions as 10 year olds knowing what we do as 20 year olds. One main way brains don’t mature is in understanding that there are eternal consequences to actions you take. You can read about it. Not everything is black and white it’s nuanced. The pain and suffering are real but around the world I assure you venables and Thompson would have been treated as much the victim as James Bulger. There are cases in Norway and Finland you can read about. 15 year olds are supposed to get protection from content and adults that would abuse their position of trust to take advantage of them. That’s the link here. As a 15 year old the girl has been manipulated, why at 19 is she not being treated as a victim? I really don’t understand

BBC News - How Norway dealt with its 'Bulger' case

 

[westcountry_skyblue]

Labour the gift that keeps on giving.... This is why this clown will never be PM

 

[rob9872]

Bloody hell the point was about age of criminality. There’s no saying what they did was ok and they need sympathy. You only need a rudimentary understanding of the human brain to understand that we don’t make decisions as 10 year olds knowing what we do as 20 year olds. One main way brains don’t mature is in understanding that there are eternal consequences to actions you take. You can read about it. Not everything is black and white it’s nuanced. The pain and suffering are real but around the world I assure you venables and Thompson would have been treated as much the victim as James Bulger. There are cases in Norway and Finland you can read about. 15 year olds are supposed to get protection from content and adults that would abuse their position of trust to take advantage of them. That’s the link here. As a 15 year old the girl has been manipulated, why at 19 is she not being treated as a victim? I really don’t understand

I'll assume you do know that just because you type it doesn't make your opinion a fact? Those little fuckers among many things shoved batteries up his bum and then eventually, put him on a train line hoping it would run over him and remove any evidence of the things they had done to him. 10,20 or 50 they needed locking up and should have been for a hell of a lot longer than it was!

 

[duffer]

how many wars in the world are started by relgion. I’d say 80%

Again, lots of people seem to think this, but there's no evidence to support it that I can see.

It's simply not true that religion causes more deaths than war, or that 80% of wars are caused by religion. I'm not saying this in particular to defend religion (people can believe what they want as far as I'm concerned as long as they don't use their faith to justify breaking the law) but I think it's worth challenging the validity of these kind of sweeping statements...

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I'll assume you do know that just because you type it doesn't make your opinion a fact? Those little fuckers among many things shoved batteries up his bum and then eventually, put him on a train line hoping it would run over him and remove any evidence of the things they had done to him. 10,20 or 50 they needed locking up and should have been for a hell of a lot longer than it was!

Yep course I do - sorry

Did you read what the Norway case entailed

 

[Astute]

so you like your politicians to say things that endear them to the masses?
I'd prefer politicians to be honest even if it means I don't agree with them.

I would prefer to have a Labour leader that doesn't go against what the voters want when there is no reason to speak on a subject.

Doesn't anyone want Labour back in power?

 

[Astute]

Not surprisingly a couple of quotes have been cherrypicked to suit the article they wanted to write.

While I wouldn't allow her back in the country at all and therefore don't agree with Corbyn's stance he has not come out in support of her. He has said we should follow international law, question her and punish and / or support her accordingly. Which is consistent with his objections at the time the home office was given the powers to act in the way they currently are.

I read an article about her wanting to go to Holland. They said no chance as they don't let anyone back with any links to terrorism. They said they have blocked the return of over 100 people so far.

Better let Corbyn know so he can sort it out.

 

[chiefdave]

I read an article about her wanting to go to Holland. They said no chance as they don't let anyone back with any links to terrorism. They said they have blocked the return of over 100 people so far.

Better let Corbyn know so he can sort it out.

Not sure why I, or anyone else for that matter, would be instructing Corbyn to 'sort out' Dutch laws. Especially as I have explicitly stated I don't agree with him.

She isn't a Dutch citizen which makes it very easy for them to not accept her. Were she not a UK citizen Corbyn's comments regarding international law wouldn't apply and therefore entry to the UK could be blocked on that basis.

 

[westcountry_skyblue]

I would prefer to have a Labour leader that doesn't go against what the voters want when there is no reason to speak on a subject.

Doesn't anyone want Labour back in power?

Not with this bunch in charge

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

Not with this bunch in charge

The better ones are going and leaving Abbott behind

 

[Grendel]

If you're not revoking citizenship, isn't it better to manage her return, so you know where she is, then risk her slipping in unnoticed?

Well I’d assume that our intelligence service is sufficient to see if that is actually going to happen. I don’t think offering assistance is appropriate. Equally I don’t think removing citizen to gain a headline in the press is the right thing to do. That actually I find as appalling as this individual

 

[clint van damme]

I would prefer to have a Labour leader that doesn't go against what the voters want when there is no reason to speak on a subject.

Doesn't anyone want Labour back in power?

He was asked he gave his opinion. I don't see anything wrong with that.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Well I’d assume that our intelligence service is sufficient to see if that is actually going to happen.

Not so sure I'd be entirely secure in that!

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

The better ones are going and leaving Abbott behind

That independent group now has more MP's than the DUP - that £1bn looks like money well spent! For the party with the reputation for sensible handling of the economy they sure can waste funds as well as anyone.

And as those in that independent group are leaving their parties for going too far left/right, I expect the Lib Dems are on a charm offensive right now. Odds on a resurgence in the next election (especially if the rumours of Blair heading this independent group are correct)?

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

That independent group now has more MP's than the DUP - that £1bn looks like money well spent! For the party with the reputation for sensible handling of the economy they sure can waste funds as well as anyone.

And as those in that independent group are leaving their parties for going too far left/right, I expect the Lib Dems are on a charm offensive right now. Odds on a resurgence in the next election (especially if the rumours of Blair heading this independent group are correct)?

That’s all we need Blair back in politics and his disgusting wife will no doubt follow

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

so you like your politicians to say things that endear them to the masses?
I'd prefer politicians to be honest even if it means I don't agree with them.

I agree - I prefer someone to say what they think rather than what people want them to hear, even if I fundamentally disagree with them.

Corbyn is sort of the polar opposite to JRM - both had a sheltered upbringing from opposite ends of the political spectrum that has led to them being completely out of touch with reality. But at least they're honest in their opinions, no matter how flawed they are.

It's why I find JRM so infuriating because I really want to dislike him but I feel more sorry for him (to an extent) than anything. With people like Boris and Gove they're clearly in it solely for the prestige, power and money so it's easy to have disdain for them. But with JRM he's in it a bit for the power but largely he's a product of his environment and has such a lack of self-awareness (almost to the point of delusion) he can't understand the realities for most people. It's why he's totally unsuitable to be a politician. Plus he does seem one of the few MP's that still seems to have respect and manners rather than just shouting over people and being abusive.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Understanding the Teen Brain - Health Encyclopedia - University of Rochester Medical Center

We know all this so why can’t we put it into practice ?

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

That’s all we need Blair back in politics and his disgusting wife will no doubt follow

No, she'll be looking at ways they can make money from the law businesses etc. I find the pair of them incredibly shady and false. To think his son was being considered to being parachuted in to replace Robinson...

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

No, she'll be looking at ways they can make money from the law businesses etc. I find the pair of them incredibly shady and false. To think his son was being considered to being parachuted in to replace Robinson...

I was just thinking of the son I wonder where Blair has got him a role earning a fortune and doing fuck all important

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Understanding the Teen Brain - Health Encyclopedia - University of Rochester Medical Center

We know all this so why can’t we put it into practice ?

It is a fascinating subject and it's like with a small child when everything is either wrong or right as it's a simple way to understand things, whereas as you get older it becomes a lot more nuanced and you understand circumstances can lead to it.

With the teenage brain etc I think in general that's true, but I think it's just as, if not more. important is to take into account life experiences - the old nature and nurture.

If you have a teenager who's seen consequences from their actions then they will have an understanding. It's just far less likely people of that age will have been put in those situations yet - it's not to do with the age of the brain, more the experiences. There are plenty of people much older who's decision making I would consider more like a 'teenager's' because they've never had consequences of their actions. Look at the brats spawned by celebs and toffs over the years. Reality shows like TOWIE etc I consider a lot of those to have thinking much closer to that of a child/teenager than an adult, because they've been cossetted and protected from consequences, as we're treating people as 'children' (for want of a better term) for much longer. In time this brain of a teenager could as well be the thinking of someone in their mid-20's?

 

[clint van damme]

Understanding the Teen Brain - Health Encyclopedia - University of Rochester Medical Center

We know all this so why can’t we put it into practice ?

to go off topic a little bit Pete, if you're interested in this type of stuff there's a fella called Robert Sapolsky who is an American professor and an expert in all things behavioural and brain related.
His Stanford university lectures are all on Youtube, they are fascinating if you're in to that sort of thing. I've listened to loads of them.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

to go off topic a little bit Pete, if you're interested in this type of stuff there's a fella called Robert Sapolsky who is an American professor and an expert in all things behavioural and brain related.
His Stanford university lectures are all on Youtube, they are fascinating if you're in to that sort of thing. I've listened to loads of them.

Mate of mine was saying he reckons in a generation or two we’ll all just have implants to change how we think about certain things. I think we need to embrace the imperfection and diversity