new statement (6 Viewers)

[Deleted member 5849]

No it can’t. It can be your opinion that it does, but the future is not certain. It can be likely, but not a fact.

Say I killed you today, you could argue that’s a fact that you won’t be alive next week. But we could invent reversing death this weekend and bring you back, we don’t know for sure. Very unlikely, but not a fact.

Yes I’m being a pedant, but so is the law.

I was with you until the ludicrous example!

 

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[Nick]

No it can’t. It can be your opinion that it does, but the future is not certain. It can be likely, but not a fact.

Say I killed you today, you could argue that’s a fact that you won’t be alive next week. But we could invent reversing death this weekend and bring you back, we don’t know for sure. Very unlikely, but not a fact.

Yes I’m being a pedant, but so is the law.

So how do people get sent down for murder if death might be reversible this weekend?

 

[shmmeee]

So how do people get sent down for murder if death might be reversible this weekend?

Because the murder still happened

 

[Nick]

Because the murder still happened

Not if they are alive.

I get your point but when something is bang on guaranteed it's a bit more than opinion isn't it.

 

[shmmeee]

Not if they are alive.

I get your point but when something is bang on guaranteed it's a bit more than opinion isn't it.

Yes. Even if they are alive. The act of murder still happened even if it was reversed. (NW is right this is a fucking terrible example)

And no, it’s a well informed opinion but still an opinion.

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

The source of the problem isn’t fans but we help perpetuate the problems.

The supporters do not in any way help perpetuate anything relating to the ongoing issues of stadium ownership / lease. The problem for our supporters is that due to the complexity of the issue with SISUWasps/Council there are so many groups who have contributed to our demise that almost inevitably we can't unite over one single course of action.
Don't blame our supporters for this .

 

[Liquid Gold]

The supporters do not in any way help perpetuate anything relating to the ongoing issues of stadium ownership / lease. The problem for our supporters is that due to the complexity of the issue with SISUWasps/Council there are so many groups who have contributed to our demise that almost inevitably we can't unite over one single course of action.
Don't blame our supporters for this .

If we haven’t played any part in this then we have fuck all influence and no matter what we do it will never matter.

That’s a pretty negative way to look at things.

 

[shmmeee]

If we haven’t played any part in this then we have fuck all influence and no matter what we do it will never matter.

That’s a pretty negative way to look at things.

Now you’re getting it!

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The supporters do not in any way help perpetuate anything relating to the ongoing issues of stadium ownership / lease. The problem for our supporters is that due to the complexity of the issue with SISUWasps/Council there are so many groups who have contributed to our demise that almost inevitably we can't unite over one single course of action.
Don't blame our supporters for this .

Most supporters fantasise of worlds without SISU and Wasps. On the Wasps forum we are made out to be deranged SISU fans. Not true. We want both gone

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

If we haven’t played any part in this then we have fuck all influence and no matter what we do it will never matter.

That’s a pretty negative way to look at things.

I don't recall saying anything of the sort.

 

[duffer]

What did you expect the council to do exactly with the empty stadium?
Tim had said the club were leaving to build their own stadium and promptly flounced off to Northampton!
The council were left with 2 clear options.
1, find another tenant.
2, find a buyer.
If you don't understand that, then I really can't help you.

Three options.

Option 3: Build trust after the club returned and then look to do a deal at a later date. That was actually what the Council said at the point CCFC moved back, at the very point that they were negotiating secretly with Wasps. Another flat out lie.

Just to be clear, the Ricoh wasn't empty when the Council sold to Wasps, that's simply not true.

 

[Liquid Gold]

I don't recall saying anything of the sort.

So if we do have influence why have we had no influence on this?

 

[David O'Day]

Most supporters fantasise of worlds without SISU and Wasps. On the Wasps forum we are made out to be deranged SISU fans. Not true. We want both gone

Wasps fans can piss off back to Kenilworth

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

[ccfcway]

wow, this statement is nuts, it looks like its been penned by the guy who writes the trust ones.

its real kids in a play ground stuff now isn't it,

proper grim

 

[fernandopartridge]

wow, this statement is nuts, it looks like its been penned by the guy who writes the trust ones.

its real kids in a play ground stuff now isn't it,

proper grim

It's calling out blatant attempts by the council to mislead in the absence of local media, fans groups or anybody else to do the same

 

[letsallsingtogether]

Nuneaton go out of business CCFC to take over ground.
Or
Sisu sell and buy Nuneaton take the Smurf to court for charging them rent for a derelict site posing as a football ground.

 

[covcity4life]

To think i was naive enough to be excited about burton game in friday

 

[shmmeee]

It's calling out blatant attempts by the council to mislead in the absence of local media, fans groups or anybody else to do the same

Let’s be blunt here. It’s picking up on a couple of woolly statements from Councillors. It’s not a smoking gun. It’s not any different to any other politician blather.

What matters isn’t comments from individuals if they are to prove a conspiracy, it’s the meetings of and reports to the council as a whole. And that left a loophole big enough to drive a bus through. Because no sane person would sign a lease that forces them to have a tenant at any cost.

I know you desperately want it to be a smoking gun, I get it, a quick Sisu win and this whole thing is behind us. But this ain’t it. Just like it wasn’t it the last ten times either.

This is just an attempt to get pressure on the council, without any actual action they want the council to take. It’s just screaming into the void, the Sisu version of the tiny sky blue coffin.

It’s not enough of a vote winner to impact the council and it’s not solid enough to be legally useful.

What it is is a sign that we likely won’t be playing in Cov next year.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Let’s be blunt here. It’s picking up on a couple of woolly statements from Councillors. It’s not a smoking gun. It’s not any different to any other politician blather.

What matters isn’t comments from individuals if they are to prove a conspiracy, it’s the meetings of and reports to the council as a whole. And that left a loophole big enough to drive a bus through. Because no sane person would sign a lease that forces them to have a tenant at any cost.

I know you desperately want it to be a smoking gun, I get it, a quick Sisu win and this whole thing is behind us. But this ain’t it. Just like it wasn’t it the last ten times either.

This is just an attempt to get pressure on the council, without any actual action they want the council to take. It’s just screaming into the void, the Sisu version of the tiny sky blue coffin.

It’s not enough of a vote winner to impact the council and it’s not solid enough to be legally useful.

What it is is a sign that we likely won’t be playing in Cov next year.

Hmmm whilst you're probably right it's no wonder local elections are not taken seriously

 

[Warwickhunt]

That's twice you've used this phrase, what does it mean?

Twice! I think it’s four now.

 

[ccfcway]

It's calling out blatant attempts by the council to mislead in the absence of local media, fans groups or anybody else to do the same

its well worth the club fighting back, no doubt about that, but the "talk is cheap" stuff could easily have been replaced with.....

"I am sure Mr Duggins would agree that the city benefits from having a major football club playing within it. We are calling on him to stand up and be counted and show if he feels it's worth fighting to keep his constituents club in his city"

 

[ccfcway]

To think i was naive enough to be excited about burton game in friday

cc4life was wrong again

 

[Warwickhunt]

Well if you wanted to harden attitudes even further that should do it. Given Boddy said last night the owners would make a statement i assume it is really from them not CCFC. I agree it is not a very professional statement, it is more of a personal attack, i am not sure it helps. Dont get me wrong they have to fight their corner with everything they have so i understand why and that it will play well to the fans & EFL.

I would be surprised if there was a binding clause in the CCC/Wasps sale agreement to basically allow CCFC to stay at their choice as long as they like but i suppose there is a chance. Given what everyone was aware of at the time it would have been careless in the extreme for a lawyer to allow that through.

Added to which there is reference i understand to it being on the basis of being able to strike a commercial deal to be able to stay longer. That i would think is getting more difficult as we go on through this saga. In which case in court i dont think there is much to rely on but i am not a barrister.

In essence Wasps will say there was no contractual basis to go on further, CCFC had wanted a short term deal (lots of press statements about that) and that deal has ended at the term date.

OEG/ARVO/SBS&L as instructed to so by SISU started JR2 after the assurances were given. I am sure some clever lawyer will work that in somewhere as a part of a defense

CCC have made so many mistakes over the years that it encourages legal actions. Do things in secret and this is what results.

Wasps I fear will see that and conclude we can not deal with these people.

The statement does not say to me they have a strong case.

The club statement basically sets the scene for continuing legal actions. As has been said this not about a day in court and "battering" the opposition. This is about battering people with court over and over again to get what they want. What they want (SISU) is not the stadium but the financial settlements that would come because of it. It is not nor ever has been about what is best for CCFC

I think moving away is now more certain and a solution less likely given the egos and entrenched positions

Don’t matter if we move elsewhere or go tits up! One thing I can guarantee is that SISU will still carry on regardless with their legals

 

[covcity4life]

cc4life was wrong again

Not when we win 10 nil

 

[Old Warwickshire lad]

Don’t matter if we move elsewhere or go tits up! One thing I can guarantee is that SISU will still carry on regardless with their legals

I was talking to a guy who had dealings with SISU ( queue Jim the gateman jokes). He said SISU would never stop the legals because they truly believe they are in the right,and eventually everything will come out and they will win.
We will just be collateral damage.

 

[fatso]

Three options.

Option 3: Build trust after the club returned and then look to do a deal at a later date. That was actually what the Council said at the point CCFC moved back, at the very point that they were negotiating secretly with Wasps. Another flat out lie.

Just to be clear, the Ricoh wasn't empty when the Council sold to Wasps, that's simply not true.

'Option 3 was never going to happen because the relationship and trust between the two parties had broken down. By the time ccfc returned all sides were playing games with each other, and neither could be trusted.

Empty or not, the Ricoh arena is untenable without the football club.
It may even fail with wasps as tenants.

 

[Nick]

To think i was naive enough to be excited about burton game in friday

I am still don't worry!

 

[fatso]

Ah playing the naive act?

Nick, you have no argument other than calling every side out!
I’ve yet to hear you come out with any rational argument that could be put against the council in court. ( and I’m not defending them I’m pointing out the obvious that you seem unable to grasp)
Sisu are doomed to fail yet again, and the council will walk away vindicated,
Even though they lied to and manipulated the public and sisu over the sale to wasps.
If you have any sane argument to the contrary I’m more than happy to hear it.

 

[Nick]

Nick, you have no argument other than calling every side out!
I’ve yet to hear you come out with any rational argument that could be put against the council in court. ( and I’m not defending them I’m pointing out the obvious that you seem unable to grasp)
Sisu are doomed to fail yet again, and the council will walk away vindicated,
Even though they lied to and manipulated the public and sisu over the sale to wasps.
If you have any sane argument to the contrary I’m more than happy to hear it.

I've never said anything about the current case apart from I can't see anything but sisu losing. The court case is judged on one thing isn't it? They aren't judging morals, lies or bullshit.

 

[letsallsingtogether]

I said before that SISU missed an opportunity to buy Cov Rugby.

They could have got around lots of council issues, developed the Butts, shared resources (physios, Training facilities, admin. Staff) and at the same time damaged Wasps if CRC became successful. Huge potential.

That would have been brilliant unfortunately another person who wouldn't deal with Sisu after meeting them wonder why?

 

[letsallsingtogether]

I've never said anything about the current case apart from I can't see anything but sisu losing. The court case is judged on one thing isn't it? They aren't judging morals, lies or bullshit.

No just the Facts

 

[Captain Dart]

Let’s be blunt here. It’s picking up on a couple of woolly statements from Councillors. It’s not a smoking gun. It’s not any different to any other politician blather.

What matters isn’t comments from individuals if they are to prove a conspiracy, it’s the meetings of and reports to the council as a whole. And that left a loophole big enough to drive a bus through. Because no sane person would sign a lease that forces them to have a tenant at any cost.

I know you desperately want it to be a smoking gun, I get it, a quick Sisu win and this whole thing is behind us. But this ain’t it. Just like it wasn’t it the last ten times either.

This is just an attempt to get pressure on the council, without any actual action they want the council to take. It’s just screaming into the void, the Sisu version of the tiny sky blue coffin.

It’s not enough of a vote winner to impact the council and it’s not solid enough to be legally useful.

What it is is a sign that we likely won’t be playing in Cov next year.

The council and wasps will probably do nothing unless SISU drop legals. But the issue is what happens after the supreme court rule. 2 days ago I was optimistic of a deal today I expect a 3rd court case.

Will this nightmare ever end?

 

[Nick]

No just the Facts

It isn't though, all they care about is whether the sale was legal.

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

So if we do have influence why have we had no influence on this?

I don't know. I didn't say anything of the sort. I was responding to your remarks about our supporters. I'd read it all again.

 

[duffer]

'Option 3 was never going to happen because the relationship and trust between the two parties had broken down. By the time ccfc returned all sides were playing games with each other, and neither could be trusted.

Empty or not, the Ricoh arena is untenable without the football club.
It may even fail with wasps as tenants.

If that wasn't really an option then why did the council say that it was at the point we returned?

In the politest way that I can frame it, you shoot down your own argument here - the fact that you say the Ricoh needs the club shows that there was always a deal to be made... if it wasn't for the shady double dealing with Wasps who knows where we would be now.

The legals would have finished with JR1, and the club (having lost) still wouldn't have built a new ground. A deal would have suited both sides, regardless of their mutual antipathy.